Bean Counters and shortsightedness

Interesting how income increased while margins stayed the same, but attendance was lower. Unfortunately this data doesn't allow us to isolate the parks - or domestic parks in particular for the purpose of discussion here - margins. But the investor calls have been very clear, that's where they have been milking money - on increased guest spending, lower costs, and lower attendance.
Post realignment to DPEP, Domestic Theme Park margin is actually higher than presented for FY22. DCL has at least operated at a loss until this Fiscal year.

Won’t be able to factor out what DCL earned for this fiscal year until next summer when DCL reports their data.
 
Meanwhile I want to know how people are tolerating these international flight prices. $1500 roundtrip from airports near me to Rome.
I've been paying in the $775-875 range for round trip flights to Europe post-Covid. Not as good as pre-Covid, but not horrendous. The Belgium trip was the worst, but that was partly because my mom didn't confirm she could go before the price jumped up. A few days earlier it would've been sub $800, instead we wound up with $862.
 
I've been paying in the $775-875 range for round trip flights to Europe post-Covid. Not as good as pre-Covid, but not horrendous. The Belgium trip was the worst, but that was partly because my mom didn't confirm she could go before the price jumped up. A few days earlier it would've been sub $800, instead we wound up with $862.
I saw those prices for Germany but Italy is twice as expensive (probably higher demand?). I got invited by a friend to go to Turkey and flights are $800 round trip. Uh, yeah that's amazing price wise.

A few months ago I did see $400 roundtrip for Iceland and I ALMOST booked it but didn't have any PTO left and no one would go with me lol
 
Magic Kingdom is at the lowest attendance since 2010
And you know this how, exactly?

It also cannot be correct, because 2020 (shy of 7M) was below 2010, as was 2021 (north of 12M). I'm pretty sure MK is going to come in above 12M this year, let alone 7M.

2010 was just shy of 17M. 2022 was just above it. They were within 1% of each other. But it sure sounds dramatic to say "Lowest in thirteen years!"

Assuming attendance is going to drop to "almost 2010 levels", it isn't that surprising. I don't think Disney is going to get too upset about falling from 17.13M in the Revenge Travel Year of 2022 to 16.97M or so. I mean, more is better, but still. And this is in a world that Iger said for years they were working towards: a world where fewer guests came but spent more money.

To quote President Bush: Mission Accomplished.
 
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Interesting how income increased while margins stayed the same, but attendance was lower.
This is not that hard to imagine. Each person who enters the gates spends (a lot) more than they did not all that long ago, so increased revenue on lower attendance is easy to explain.

Margins are not just about revenue, but also about costs, and the labor market in Florida has been on steroids recently. So it's also not surprising that costs-per-guest have also gone up, keeping margins relatively flat.
 
Where are you pulling that data from?
TEA / AECOM - and again, in investor calls for some time now - they have noted that attendance has been down. Universal actually jumped to the number 2 slot in 2022 - which means the other parks were really down, both numerically and relatively.
 
This is not that hard to imagine. Each person who enters the gates spends (a lot) more than they did not all that long ago, so increased revenue on lower attendance is easy to explain.

Margins are not just about revenue, but also about costs, and the labor market in Florida has been on steroids recently. So it's also not surprising that costs-per-guest have also gone up, keeping margins relatively flat.

This is exactly my thinking.
 
TEA / AECOM - and again, in investor calls for some time now - they have noted that attendance has been down. Universal actually jumped to the number 2 slot in 2022 - which means the other parks were really down, both numerically and relatively.
Are you speaking in terms of last year, because Disney purposely limited crowds from precovid times, which is why I belief they dropped in ranking. I haven’t heard the 20% but won’t argue the point, what I will say is that it is not only a Disney thing, regional parks are all going through it currently in Florida and across the country. So I don’t believe it’s that Disney is upsetting customers, just how the markets flowing currently
 
Crowds are down from pre-pandemic in part because WDW was turning people away until very recently. Our March '22 trip had more days when the parks were completely sold out than not. Granted, this was Orange County's spring break, but still. WDW also did not start selling new APs until after the 2023 spring break season ended.

Universal wasn't doing any of that.

But, again, Disney's leadership has publicly said in investor calls that they wanted to reduce the number of people that came through the gate, as long as each one spent more. And that's exactly what has happened.

Disney is not unhappy that "only" 17M people came through the gates vs. 2019's 20M, because those 17M are spending more collectively than the 20M did. A lot more. People don't create profits. Dollars do.
 
This thread is so entertaining...some of you must be politicians in the real world. popcorn::
 
Crowds are down from pre-pandemic in part because WDW was turning people away until very recently. Our March '22 trip had more days when the parks were completely sold out than not. Granted, this was Orange County's spring break, but still. WDW also did not start selling new APs until after the 2023 spring break season ended.

Universal wasn't doing any of that.

But, again, Disney's leadership has publicly said in investor calls that they wanted to reduce the number of people that came through the gate, as long as each one spent more. And that's exactly what has happened.

Disney is not unhappy that "only" 17M people came through the gates vs. 2019's 20M, because those 17M are spending more collectively than the 20M did. A lot more. People don't create profits. Dollars do.
So the goal was met. Fewer "undesirables" at the parks.
 
So the goal was met. Fewer "undesirables" at the parks.
Less people definitely means a better time for the people who go. Sorry but ask anyone if they want to be down there with Christmas week crowds or September crowds and 10 out of 10 will tell you September. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it
 
Fewer "undesirables" at the parks.
And now that attendance is softening, some of them are welcome back through the resumption of new AP sales. The AP population--particularly the local APers--act as a shock absorber for swings in demand.
 
Less people definitely means a better time for the people who go. Sorry but ask anyone if they want to be down there with Christmas week crowds or September crowds and 10 out of 10 will tell you September. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it

So this is going to become the new interesting argument with the current Disney philosophy. September is going to start to feel much more busy due to lower operational capacity, when compared to December where they will fully ramp up.

It will still be more crowded and guests will do less in December but that gap has been closed somewhat.
 
So this is going to become the new interesting argument with the current Disney philosophy. September is going to start to feel much more busy due to lower operational capacity, when compared to December where they will fully ramp up.

It will still be more crowded and guests will do less in December but that gap has been closed somewhat.
Disney to my knowledge has never run rides at full capacity year round, i don't know where that notion is coming from
 
Crowds are down 20% from pre-pandemic attendance - sounds like people aren't that happy.
Not necessarily. I think this economy and inflation sucks, and people just have much less expendable income. People are over leveraging themselves with credit card debt, and their interest rates on everything are way up too. This bubble will burst at some point.
 
Disney to my knowledge has never run rides at full capacity year round, i don't know where that notion is coming from
So they DO manage ride capacity and always have? It's not too much of a leap of logic to conclude that capacity management is used to maximize Genie revenue. After all, as New Mouse pointed out, if wait times are low, Genie revenue is zero.
 
So they DO manage ride capacity and always have? It's not too much of a leap of logic to conclude that capacity management is used to maximize Genie revenue. After all, as New Mouse pointed out, if wait times are low, Genie revenue is zero.
It's not if they just started running rides under 100% capacity. There are reasons to not run full boar all the time. 1 being maintenance on rides, if you take a look the most sought after rides are the ones that break down most often, some of that has to do with the complexity of the ride system for sure, but there is also a component of normal wear and tear. 2 running rides at full capacity means having to have more employees running the rides which increases your overhead, something that all companies would take a look at.

The Genie+ revenue argument to me is just convenient, i also looked back on these boards and found people complaining about ride capacities back before Genie was even announced. It seems like desperation to find a way of making Disney the villain when in reality people are grasping at straws.
 
It's not if they just started running rides under 100% capacity. There are reasons to not run full boar all the time. 1 being maintenance on rides, if you take a look the most sought after rides are the ones that break down most often, some of that has to do with the complexity of the ride system for sure, but there is also a component of normal wear and tear. 2 running rides at full capacity means having to have more employees running the rides which increases your overhead, something that all companies would take a look at.

The Genie+ revenue argument to me is just convenient, i also looked back on these boards and found people complaining about ride capacities back before Genie was even announced. It seems like desperation to find a way of making Disney the villain when in reality people are grasping at straws.
Not at all. Genie was just another way to take advantage of the high demand and wring more money out of guests who have already plunked down thousands on tickets and rooms. Otherwise they think they won't be able to ride any attractions.

It's like owning the soft drink concession at a ball stadium where there are no water fountains.
 












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