Bean Counters and shortsightedness

[Aluminum Falcon]

I suggest lots of guests agree. Do you think the softness in park attendance this summer is just because its hot? What's your explanation?

i think domestic travel was up significantly because restrictions in the US came down a lot last year and people were itching to get out. With the international tourist market still all over the place (for instance my parents got stuck in Aruba for an extra week) people didn't want to risk leaving the country. With Covid firmly in the rearview this year, many are traveling internationally, and on cruises which were treated like the plague the last few years. There is plenty of data i'm sure someone could pull showing the climb in international travel and cruises. Disney is not the only park being affected either, other local parks are in the same boat, the travel market is still "recovering" from the pandemic and where one sector gets slammed another suffers. It will seek its level eventually and more stable patterns will emerge. That is my thought on the matter.

Again just looking at Disney and not the landscape is not very constructive and leads people to believe things that don't wash out

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

I suggest lots of guests agree. Do you think the softness in park attendance this summer is just because its hot? What's your explanation?

Attendance at all the major theme parks in Cental Florida have been soft this summer, not just a WDW.

Just my opinion, but I think the cause of the drop, is a combination of the weather, the end of the covid relief funds that people received, inflation, and the political climate (groups have issued travel advisories) that has caused the drop park attendance.

There is just no easy answer as to what is causing the drop, just multiple factors that when added together compound the problem.

Psy

 

[Smugpugmug]

Everyone just went to Europe lol I knew 4 people that went this summer and this week I saw two more people I'm friends with on FB post that they're in Italy right now.

 

[clarker99]

I suggest lots of guests agree. Do you think the softness in park attendance this summer is just because its hot? What's your explanation?

There was a post-Covid domestic theme park bubble... the bubble is now over. Things will regress to the pre-covid mean. I wont even be shocked if things even dip below the mean here and there as things normalize.

Everyone just went to Europe lol I knew 4 people that went this summer and this week I saw two more people I'm friends with on FB post that they're in Italy right now.

International Parks just 2.25x its best quarter ever. I also just returned from Europe (and a 3 day stop at DLP).

We went to DLR/WDW 6 times in 18 months over covid. We have 1 trip planned to DLR/WDW in the next 18 months. We are DVC and will now likely fall back into our 1-2 times a year mode.

 

[Smugpugmug]

There was a post-Covid domestic theme park bubble... the bubble is now over. Things will regress to the pre-covid mean. I wont even be shocked if things even dip below the mean here and there as things normalize.

International Parks just 2.25x its best quarter ever. I also just returned from Europe (and a 3 day stop at DLP).

We went to DLR/WDW 6 times in 18 months over covid. We have 1 trip planned to DLR/WDW in the next 18 months. We are DVC and will now likely fall back into our 1-2 times a year mode.

I don't think they count Tokyo in those stats since they're not owned by Disney but if they did that number would be larger for sure. That resort is popping at the seams.

Meanwhile I want to know how people are tolerating these international flight prices. $1500 roundtrip from airports near me to Rome.

 

[HokieRaven5]

I don't think they count Tokyo in those stats since they're not owned by Disney but if they did that number would be larger for sure. That resort is popping at the seams.

Meanwhile I want to know how people are tolerating these international flight prices. $1500 roundtrip from airports near me to Rome.

Tokyo they get licensing from, Paris they own outright, Shanghai Disney has a 43% stake, and Hong Kong is 48% owned by Disney.

 

[clarker99]

If Di

I don't think they count Tokyo in those stats since they're not owned by Disney but if they did that number would be larger for sure. That resort is popping at the seams.

Meanwhile I want to know how people are tolerating these international flight prices. $1500 roundtrip from airports near me to Rome.

You are correct, TDR is not part of International parks reporting. TWDC reports its take from TDR under ‘Parks Licensing and Other’.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Tokyo they get licensing from, Paris they own outright, Shanghai Disney has a 43% stake, and Hong Kong is 48% owned by Disney.

I'm so glad Disney owns Paris fully now tbh. I went back when Disney partially owned it and that Studios park felt like a knockoff Disney park.

 

[HokieRaven5]

I'm so glad Disney owns Paris fully now tbh. I went back when Disney partially owned it and that Studios park felt like a knockoff Disney park.

It’s getting there, their current investments should help boost it further from the dumpster fire of a park it was before.

 

[Smugpugmug]

It’s getting there, their current investments should help boost it further from the dumpster fire of a park it was before.

Did they fix the food at least? That quick service burger almost killed me.

 

[clarker99]

Newest info on the left.

You can see Domestic Parks had a robust and quick return and climbed well above pre-covid highs (reminder that margins stayed similar-ish to pre-covid and they capped attendance). It has now peaked. It will come back down below $5b as things normalize.

Just to note it, Q1FY23 was the most outlier high quarter in Parks history. There is no way they can even come close to repeating that quarter.

 

[clarker99]

FYI, domestic Parks margins are very all over the place depending on the time of the year.
Q1 (Oct-Dec) can see 33-35% margins
Q2/Q3 in the 25% range.
Q4 (July-Sept) will be in the 15-18% range.

 

[ChipnDale79]

from the consumers point no wait would be best, but there is a business component that can't be ignored

Yeah, i'm sick of that. you pay a boatload to go to disney. they need to be running at full capacity 100% of the time.

I'm just sick and tired of spending thousands of dollars on a vacation, and then having to hear about the business side of it. Nickel and Diming at its finest. they arent losing money, they're making money hand over fist with the parks.

run the rides at full capacity.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm just sick and tired

Vacation is supposed to be fun. When I'm not having fun, I decide to do something else.

Full disclosure: I haven't been to WDW since March '22. We were in Orlando in March '23, but spent the week at Universal. March '24 is New Orleans. I don't have any plans to go, though the DVC resorts not named OKW and SSR are part of a (much larger) Interval ongoing search. If they hit, we'll think about it, but I'm not sure we won't throw it back and wait for something else.

I enjoyed the March trip, but I am definitely not in a hurry to go back. That's partly because it wasn't as much fun. Familiarity breeds contempt? Partly. But maybe not entirely.

Of course, there are families lined up to take my place, and Disney will miss me less than I miss Disney--no matter how little I miss it.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yeah, i'm sick of that. you pay a boatload to go to disney. they need to be running at full capacity 100% of the time.

I'm just sick and tired of spending thousands of dollars on a vacation, and then having to hear about the business side of it. Nickel and Diming at its finest. they arent losing money, they're making money hand over fist with the parks.

run the rides at full capacity.

When you actually think about it, Disney can’t run their rides at 100% all the time, the wear and tear would probably cause rides to breakdown more often, just look at the rides that capacities are through the roof that breakdown way more often. The overhead to run rides in that manner is also probably sky high.

Your comment is selfish for lack of a better term. Do I wish it was a possibility, yes. But I can also understand why it’s not and am not going to wag my finger at Disney beside I know better

 

[clarker99]

Vacation is supposed to be fun. When I'm not having fun, I decide to do something else.

Full disclosure: I haven't been to WDW since March '22. We were in Orlando in March '23, but spent the week at Universal. March '24 is New Orleans. I don't have any plans to go, though the DVC resorts not named OKW and SSR are part of a (much larger) Interval ongoing search. If they hit, we'll think about it, but I'm not sure we won't throw it back and wait for something else.

I enjoyed the March trip, but I am definitely not in a hurry to go back. That's partly because it wasn't as much fun. Familiarity breeds contempt? Partly. But maybe not entirely.

Of course, there are families lined up to take my place, and Disney will miss me less than I miss Disney--no matter how little I miss it.

The most refreshing post in a long time.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Vacation is supposed to be fun. When I'm not having fun, I decide to do something else.

Full disclosure: I haven't been to WDW since March '22. We were in Orlando in March '23, but spent the week at Universal. March '24 is New Orleans. I don't have any plans to go, though the DVC resorts not named OKW and SSR are part of a (much larger) Interval ongoing search. If they hit, we'll think about it, but I'm not sure we won't throw it back and wait for something else.

I enjoyed the March trip, but I am definitely not in a hurry to go back. That's partly because it wasn't as much fun. Familiarity breeds contempt? Partly. But maybe not entirely.

Of course, there are families lined up to take my place, and Disney will miss me less than I miss Disney--no matter how little I miss it.

This is how I feel about DL. When I think about going back, the price for a 1 day park hopper ticket sends me back to reality and I opt for something else. Not that Disney cares nor do I expect them to lol

 

[DisFanDad]

Magic Kingdom is at the lowest attendance since 2010, and actually 2006 if you exclude 2010. But sure "people still banging down the doors to get in".

 

[DisFanDad]

this is an opinion, not based in anything outside of your personal belief. Show me one shred of actual data that backs up your assertion. Otherwise you are again riffing

Crowds are down 20% from pre-pandemic attendance - sounds like people aren't that happy.

 

[DisFanDad]

View attachment 789163
Newest info on the left.

You can see Domestic Parks had a robust and quick return and climbed well above pre-covid highs (reminder that margins stayed similar-ish to pre-covid and they capped attendance). It has now peaked. It will come back down below $5b as things normalize.

Just to note it, Q1FY23 was the most outlier high quarter in Parks history. There is no way they can even come close to repeating that quarter.

Interesting how income increased while margins stayed the same, but attendance was lower. Unfortunately this data doesn't allow us to isolate the parks - or domestic parks in particular for the purpose of discussion here - margins. But the investor calls have been very clear, that's where they have been milking money - on increased guest spending, lower costs, and lower attendance.