Beacuse I don't want kids, that's why! *pardon my rant..*

[HGD24]

DH and I were married for 8 years before we decided to have kids. Anytime someone asked when we were going to have kids I would honestly say, "When I'm done being selfish." That usually ended the conversation right then and there. If they gave me that "huh" look I would say "I want to travel, work, sleep in on weekends and do things at my own pace and when I want to do them. Until I'm done living like that, I'm not having kids." I had many people say that they respected my honesty and never brought the subject up again.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I don't think they are talking about the greater good of humanity when they are saying that.

My sister and BIL have decided they don't want kids. They don't want the expense, the clutter in their house, the changes to their lifestyle, etc. They want to be able to do what they want when they want to. Their reasons DO sound a little selfish. But that is OK. They should get to live their lives the way they want to. I have told her that given her feelings she is smart NOT to have kids.

Their reasons are no more selfish than most people's reasons to have kids, though. Many people have kids to pass on their genes, to carry on the family name, to have someone to play with, to share their lives with a child, have a child to love, to strengthen a marriage, to meet society's or parent's, or religion's expectations, to have someone to care for them in their old age, etc, etc. Having children because you want any of these things is, IMO, just as selfish as not having children because you don't want clutter, responsibility or expense.

I may tend to overthink this one, because so many people have told dh and me how kind and unselfish we are for adopting a child. As if we did it just for her! No, we adopted because we wanted another child in our home, for our own happiness, just the same as with the child we had biologically. Either we're all selfish for choosing the size of family we want (be it zero kids or 25), or none of us are.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

DH and I were married for 8 years before we decided to have kids. Anytime someone asked when we were going to have kids I would honestly say, "When I'm done being selfish." That usually ended the conversation right then and there. If they gave me that "huh" look I would say "I want to travel, work, sleep in on weekends and do things at my own pace and when I want to do them. Until I'm done living like that, I'm not having kids." I had many people say that they respected my honesty and never brought the subject up again.

OK, even though I just explained why I don't think it's any more selfish to not want kids than it is to want them, I like your answer! Beat them to the punch!

 

[Gammaresource]

On any given day on the CB, you can read about elderly parents supporting deadbeat middle aged children. And sometimes the children die before the parents anyway. And sometimes children and parents are no longer speaking by the time retirement age rolls around.

If loving me isn't enough incentive for my niece and nephew to tolerate my "taking advantage of" them, I guess they can fake it in hopes I leave them something in my will!

It isn't just about love, it is about a lot of work. You obviously haven't had to do it yet. I've had to deal with my grandparents, my mother and an aunt. I loved them all. But while I was suppose to be enjoying the lives of my children I was running people to doctors, filling in paperwork, calling medicare on a weekly basis, cleaning clothes, changing diapers. There were many times I would have gladly bailed. Longterm insurance isn't going to help when you need taken to the grocery once a week and helped in the minutia of life.

I would hate to be alone. My children are not a guarantee of that, but they are dear people who will be stuck with me, my husband, and likely his sister one day. I hold no illusion that our long term insurance is the answer, or will allow them to not be involved. Even when I am happily living in some assisted living/nursing home there are still responsibilities.

 

[daisax]

It isn't just about love, it is about a lot of work. You obviously haven't had to do it yet. I've had to deal with my grandparents, my mother and an aunt. I loved them all. But while I was suppose to be enjoying the lives of my children I was running people to doctors, filling in paperwork, calling medicare on a weekly basis, cleaning clothes, changing diapers. There were many times I would have gladly bailed. Longterm insurance isn't going to help when you need taken to the grocery once a week and helped in the minutia of life.

I would hate to be alone. My children are not a guarantee of that, but they are dear people who will be stuck with me, my husband, and likely his sister one day. I hold no illusion that our long term insurance is the answer, or will allow them to not be involved. Even when I am happily living in some assisted living/nursing home there are still responsibilities.

It's nice that you're confident that your children will love you enough to be "stuck" with all of you. Why would you doubt that those of us who don't have kids can't have loving ties with people who will feel just as "stuck" helping us?

There are plenty of lonely parents in nursing homes, and plenty of happily social childless folks there, too. For my sake, I hope I drop dead before I ever set foot in one!

 

[Ember]

So if I am talking to someone and casually ask them if they are married or if they have kids I am in the wrong? I know several people who decided not to have kids. I love kids and always wanted them, but if someone decides they don't want any kids I would rather them not have kids than have them because others think they should. Just because I love kids and loved having them doesn't mean others should. I didn't think just asking was wrong though.
tigercat

I don't consider the question rude. I also don't really mind the inevitable "Why?" that follows it. The fact is that choosing not to have kids is not a common choice. As someone mentioned, the default is to procreate. So even the natural curiosity is fine with me. It's the questions/comments beyond that that get under my skin from time to time.

I don't want any genetically related kids because of hereditary issues on my side of the family. And yeah my sister went off having 6 kids, 3 of which have problems. But that is not my choice. With the expensive costs of IVF treatments, it'll probably come down to not having kids at all. And some people get married knowing kids probably won't be in the equation.

Because I know how prying questions can be really irritating I never bring the subject of potential children up when I know there's a risk of hereditary issues. But in my heart I always question the choice to have kids knowing there's a strong chance you could or will pass something damaging to them. I have a very deep respect for people like you, who consider the potential harm.

 

[merryweather20]

It isn't just about love, it is about a lot of work. You obviously haven't had to do it yet. I've had to deal with my grandparents, my mother and an aunt. I loved them all. But while I was suppose to be enjoying the lives of my children I was running people to doctors, filling in paperwork, calling medicare on a weekly basis, cleaning clothes, changing diapers. There were many times I would have gladly bailed. Longterm insurance isn't going to help when you need taken to the grocery once a week and helped in the minutia of life.

I would hate to be alone. My children are not a guarantee of that, but they are dear people who will be stuck with me, my husband, and likely his sister one day. I hold no illusion that our long term insurance is the answer, or will allow them to not be involved. Even when I am happily living in some assisted living/nursing home there are still responsibilities.

Dead wrong. Children are no "insurance" policy. My Mom certainly ran my grandmother around and took care of her, but she also took care of a neighbour and a close friend, driving them to chemo and cooking and cleaning. When My Mom passed away I couldn't do those things for her because I was sick myself. Now that my Mom can't be there for my grandma, her friends and neighbours have picked up where she left off.

I can list countless parents in our community whose children have moved away, are physically unable, or are bums. Your children simply do not get "stuck" with you.

 

[SandrA9810]

I know there's lots of mom's on here that say they wouldn't change the world for thier (disabled) kids. And my mom was just like them. Loved my brother and did the best she could for him. But being in a lower income class many things were as not readily available, or state run just wasn't as good as private run to help my brother out.
He's 27 now and not doing too good. And it was just so frustrating seeing him this way when I brought him to disney. Because he doesn't even act like my brother. I don't want to have to go through what my mom is. On top of that she fell and fractured her hip, so she'll never be able to take care of him on her own.

I want to know that when I have kids, they'll eventually grow up and go on with thier lives without me. I don't want to be a mom to a 2 year old for the rest of my life. Or worry what will happen if they outlive me, or how I would be knowing that I'd outlive them.


It's ok to ask if you're going to start a family... but not ok to ask why. That's just personal. And it's not of any one's personal business. And you know what, it's not going to affect them in any way shape or form after the conversation has ended of knowing why you've chosen not to have kids.
I mean every one has to make that choice if they want to become a parent. And most the time women eventually get that maternity urge, some times it takes a lot longer.

 

[tigercat]

Thanks for the reply's. I would never assume that someone wants to get married or have kids. Some people are happy living together, some don't want kids. I have always felt it is their lives not mine so I don't care. I just like to talk to people and listen to them. Some of the people that don't have kids have been able to really travel. Something that I wasn't able to do until recently and now will have to wait until things pick up. What I do like to do though is listen to them talk about their trips. I love to find out where they went, what they saw, what the places were like. Especially if they went on a cruise. I will listen for hours. I feel better now, as I wouldn't want to make anyone feel bad just because I asked an innocent question.
tigercat

 

[Disneycrazy!!]

WOW! That is rude for peeps to say such a thing. It is no one's business.

I got the opposite treatment...when we found out we were pregnant 6 months ago...a jerk that was at a swim party, told us how he felt sorry for us, when we announced having another baby.... I was PISSED and hurt.

 

[Liberty Belle]

We decided not to have kids. And, we are WDW AP for the last 11 years who go regularly. We used to get, "you have the ideal life for kids.", because how often we go to Disney. Our response was, going to WDW with the 2 of us and going to WDW w/ kids is a totally different thing. Now when we say no kids, they think it's a smart choice that we decided that! Then they say how some wished they had done the same thing!

While asking someone why they don't want kids (unless in an intimate conversation) and insinuating that they're somehow flawed to not want children is incredibly wrong, I can't imagine any parent I know or have ever met saying they wished they'd never had children. Or do you mean some say they wish they'd gone to WDW without their children?

 

[PrincessKitty1]

Now that I'm 52, people no longer tell me "You'll change your mind". Instead, I get, "Are you sorry you didn't have kids?"

While I do think people sometimes ask questions innocently , I think they just as often ask these kinds of questions to be rude. Especially when they're not satisfied with your answer and keep countering with why your decision is wrong and why you should regret it (the dying-alone kind of stuff).

Liberty Belle, I've had several co-workers tell me they wouldn't have children if they had it to do over again. I think they feel comfortable saying things to me (childfree) that they wouldn't say to another parent.

Ann Landers (or Dear Abby) did an informal survey once and got tons and tons of letters from people who had regretted having children. This was about 25 or 30 years ago, when having kids was even more the "default" than it is now. It's truly unfortunate that having children is the default--I have many years of pediatric nursing under my belt and I have seen WAY too much of the wrong kind of parenting.

 

[Disney Doll]

Funny, I think that talking and listening to people talk about their lives and plans is polite. That is the basis for most relationships. I can't imagine being offended by a basic question like that. Why bother? Don't you talk with the people you know about their lives, plans, dreams?

As far as families taking care of their own as they age, I wonder too, how those without children manage without taking advantage of other people's children. Not a reason to have them, but obviously a blessing in the situation.

Clearly you're not a nurse on a medical floor in a hospital, where I have watched more than one elderly person get neglected and ignored by their children who were going to take care of them in their old age and instead spend their trying to figure out the cheapest nursing home to put Mom or Dad in so that there will be some money left for them to inherit once Mom or Dad dies. Yeah...I can feel the love.

As a person without children (not by choice), I will figure out a way to take care of myself without being a burden to other peoples' children, although I would like to think that some of the children I have loved, supported and cared for throughout my life might just want to pay me a little visit every once in a while, just because they love me and remember how I loved them.

As far as a question about children..."Do you have children?" is an inquiry. If it is met with a "Yes" response, then obviously the conversation can move on to "how many?", "what ages?", "boys or girls or some of each?" and so forth. If it is met with a "No", the proper response is NOT "Well, when do you think you will have them?", or "No! You aren't getting any younger you know...you better get on the ball!". The proper response to a "No" is "What do you like to do in your leisure time? Do you travel? Garden?". Or maybe I'd even go for "I have 2 children and they keep me pretty busy. I envy you your free time...what's your passion? Do you travel? Craft? Sew?"

Frankly, when I was trying to have a baby I didn't feel the need to share my life plan with virtual strangers, since, realistically, my "life plan" did not consist of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in a futile effort to have a child...plus, you can kind of see what a conversation killer that "life plan" is, can't you?

 

[Disney Doll]

So if I am talking to someone and casually ask them if they are married or if they have kids I am in the wrong? I know several people who decided not to have kids. I love kids and always wanted them, but if someone decides they don't want any kids I would rather them not have kids than have them because others think they should. Just because I love kids and loved having them doesn't mean others should. I didn't think just asking was wrong though.
tigercat

No, asking someone a question is not wrong. What is wrong is when you ask someone if they are married and they say "no", you then continue on with "Well, why not? What's the matter with you? Are you being too fussy? You're not getting any younger you know...all the good men will be taken".

See the difference? Question vs. judgement...

 

[Disneycrazy!!]

Clearly you're not a nurse on a medical floor in a hospital, where I have watched more than one elderly person get neglected and ignored by their children who were going to take care of them in their old age and instead spend their trying to figure out the cheapest nursing home to put Mom or Dad in so that there will be some money left for them to inherit once Mom or Dad dies. Yeah...I can feel the love.


Not trying to hijack this thread...but I will NEVER forget the memories I have in my head of some of the elderly in a nursing home, when I used to go visit my grandpa. Can't believe how some people just "forget" their own parents! Makes me want to cry right now!!!

 

[Disney Doll]

Clearly you're not a nurse on a medical floor in a hospital, where I have watched more than one elderly person get neglected and ignored by their children who were going to take care of them in their old age and instead spend their trying to figure out the cheapest nursing home to put Mom or Dad in so that there will be some money left for them to inherit once Mom or Dad dies. Yeah...I can feel the love.


Not trying to hijack this thread...but I will NEVER forget the memories I have in my head of some of the elderly in a nursing home, when I used to go visit my grandpa. Can't believe how some people just "forget" their own parents! Makes me want to cry right now!!!

Yes...I have visited more than one elderly person in a nursing home who had children who were ::ahem:::going to be there to take care of them when they were old. Meanwhile, me, the neighbor, was the one visiting the nursing home. The children were too "busy".

FTR, please do not think I am bashing nursing homes or nursing home care or even the need to place a loved one in a nursing home. I am not. Nursing homes fill a very important healthcare need in our country, and a good nursing home can be a godsend for an elderly person in terms of activities, socialization and enjoyment of life. There are some elderly (I am thinking those with demetia) who are actually better off being cared for in a facility equipped to dealw ith their mental status issues. And people who place their elderly parents in a nursing home and continue their involvement in their lives do their loved ones agreat service by giving them the best of both worlds in some cases...proper care and socialization as well as family love and support.

But there are an awful lot of nursing homes "dumps" done by children who don't want to deal with their elderly parents.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

We had that issue in our family. My grandparents got to the point where they could no longer take care of themselves. All the kids had moved away and my grandparents weren't willing to move out of their hometown. They live in one of those dying towns with no jobs availalbe so moving to help them wasn't an option. Our family will be forever grateful to the independent living facility that cared for them during the last few months of their lives. It was one of the most painful decisions we ever had to make. Thankfully the various kids were able to fly in from time to time to visit them. It wasn't that our family didn't love them or were looking to "dump" them, we just were not in a position where we could feasibly care for them.

Asking a person if they have children is one thing, asking "when" is quite another and then proceeding to pry or try to change their minds is downright rude. There are many families who cannot have kids for one reason or another and these questions can be very painful for them. The polite thing to do is to not bring up the subject, or if you do ask if they are planning on having kids, be prepared to move on. Polite conversation can be held without bringing up this topic.

 

[TheZue]

Yes...I have visited more than one elderly person in a nursing home who had children who were ::ahem:::going to be there to take care of them when they were old. Meanwhile, me, the neighbor, was the one visiting the nursing home. The children were too "busy".

FTR, please do not think I am bashing nursing homes or nursing home care or even the need to place a loved one in a nursing home. I am not. Nursing homes fill a very important healthcare need in our country, and a good nursing home can be a godsend for an elderly person in terms of activities, socialization and enjoyment of life. There are some elderly (I am thinking those with demetia) who are actually better off being cared for in a facility equipped to dealw ith their mental status issues. And people who place their elderly parents in a nursing home and continue their involvement in their lives do their loved ones agreat service by giving them the best of both worlds in some cases...proper care and socialization as well as family love and support.

But there are an awful lot of nursing homes "dumps" done by children who don't want to deal with their elderly parents.

Some of the dumps might be straight caregiver burnout. It does happen and it's pretty brutal when it does. When my mom went downhill her entire personality changed and she got really mean, it was horrible. I honestly wanted nothing to do with her by the time she finally landed in the home in crisis, I lost my 20s to caregiving. I do visit her at least once a week still, and I'm much happier with her relationship now that the responsibility is off my shoulders...but coming out the other end of that hell I do understand how people can just be done.

This is why having kids to look after you in old age is such a selfish pile of crap. I would NEVER wish on my kids what my mother put me through. Idealy they won't be having to do that, when I see them when I'm old I want it to be for a visit...not them driving me to errands, or cleaning up my bodily fluids, or investigating a halucination, or cleaning my home while they still have their own responsibilities. They are my children, not my future slaves. It's my job to plan for my eventual decline in abilities and that doesn't mean assuming my kids will pick up the slack. It means ensuring that I have the money to go into assisting living when I'm no longer able to take care of me and my home.

 

[nicolita3]

I think it gets worse the longer you are married. I hate it. I will be married for 5 years this september, and I get asked this question almost on a daily basis. They ask everything from when we are having kids and if we are trying right now or if it is my DH not wanting kids. Now I have a medical condition that will make it hard for me to conceive so it hurts to here these comments and to feel that I have to respond. I try to ignore it or change the subject but it just gets frustrating some times.

 

[turkeymama]

Well, not trying to bring religion into the convo, but, I do know some Christians who would say it's selfish not to have children. It goes back to their beliefs that it's their Christian "duty" to have children to help spread the faith. They believe that all good Christians should have lots of children for this reason. Which is one of the reasons why one of my cousins is planning on having 9 children (with 6 already).

It isn't just Christians who beilieve this. Many psychoanalysis theories (think Sigmund Freud) would say our instinct to survive and further our race is what drives us to procreate.