Bank account breech/fraudulent activity?

[WDWJDS]

Is anyone familiar with bank account fraudulent charges?

Someone tried to make fraudulent charges against my ATM card, but my bank alerted me and they didn’t go thru. Got a new ATM card and thought all was good. The next day, two fraudulent money transfers went thru using DHs ATM info. Got him a new card. The next day, a fake check was deposited via mobile banking and another money transfer happened. Closed all accounts and got new everything. Yesterday, someone tried to make charges via DDs ATM. Got new everything for her.

Just trying to see who/how ALL of these accounts/cards could have been breeched within a week. If it were only one card, I would think maybe someone skimmed my card or stole the info during a store/gas station transaction or something. But all three ATM cards plus the online banking sign in?

We have filed a police report but I’m interested in hearing about anyone else’s experience with something as extensive as this. Thanks for any information y’all can provide. UGH!

 

[mmouse37]

Wow that is shady....inside job at the bank?

MJ

 

[tvguy]

My bank has issued me new cards twice due to suspected attempts, last time it was because I may have used a merchant that was compromised...but they won't say what merchant. I have never had an attempt actually be successful. I would ask your bank what could be going on.

 

[JaxDad]

I am the Treasurer for a professional society. We are in Florida, and someone in Massachusetts created fake checks with our routing and account numbers. They had run up about $3,500 in purchases and cash withdrawals before I just happened to notice it--not the bank! (I was checking our account online mid-month for an anticipated electronic deposit, and the out-of-sequence check numbers jumped right out at me.) We closed the account and opened a new one, at another bank. We did get all the money back from the old bank. I reported it to the police, but the guy did not seem hopeful of anyone actually getting caught. It is so easy to get information from a check, but it was just strange that it was up in Mass. and not locally where we actually use our relatively few number of checks.

 

[MillauFr]

Not a fan of checks for this reason. Someone can snap a picture of you writing a check in a store and have everything they need to drain your accounts.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The OP should go to the bank and discuss this with a manager.

 

[WDWJDS]

We have been to the bank at least four times over the past week. Are you saying we should speak with a manager because the customer service reps may have something to do with it?

 

[luvsJack]

We rarely use checks. Our problems have been coming from our debit cards. We have two accounts. On one of them, we have had to get a new card three times and once on the other account.

The first time, charges were made in California (we are in Mississippi) at a car wash and then at a hotel. The bank stopped both and called us about getting another card. They said these kind of charges are usually someone "trying the card" to see if it will work.

The second time it was completely online purchases. It was at Christmastime so almost didn't get caught as there were several purchases made online. But most of mine are Amazon, Walmart, Toy R US (or was) and my favorite clothing store for myself. So the odd online store stuck out.

The last time, it was two charges. A small one of just a couple of dollars and then one at WalMart in another state for 99.99. They actually didn't stop them because it wasn't that much out of reach for us (just an hour or less away than places we have legitimately used the card). Dh called them and they stopped both charges and returned the money to our account. And again, I went to the bank for a new card.

The lady at the bank said that they have seen most of this come from cards being used at gas pumps. Our bank will not let our cards be used at all at the pumps of two local places, I have to go in and pay at both of these. But, since the last time, I have been going inside at every place.

Edited to Add: She did advise me to change the user name and password on our online account and at least the pin number on the other debit card. So, it does sound like they are able to breach all of these things with what seems like just a little info.

 

[GreatLakes]

Is anyone familiar with bank account fraudulent charges?

Someone tried to make fraudulent charges against my ATM card, but my bank alerted me and they didn’t go thru. Got a new ATM card and thought all was good. The next day, two fraudulent money transfers went thru using DHs ATM info. Got him a new card. The next day, a fake check was deposited via mobile banking and another money transfer happened. Closed all accounts and got new everything. Yesterday, someone tried to make charges via DDs ATM. Got new everything for her.

Just trying to see who/how ALL of these accounts/cards could have been breeched within a week. If it were only one card, I would think maybe someone skimmed my card or stole the info during a store/gas station transaction or something. But all three ATM cards plus the online banking sign in?

We have filed a police report but I’m interested in hearing about anyone else’s experience with something as extensive as this. Thanks for any information y’all can provide. UGH!

I have some ideas but need you to clarify some things.

Are the cards you are talking about ATM cards (which are only enabled for PIN transactions and have no Visa or MasterCard logo) or are they debit cards that are also used at an ATM?
Clarify the sentence "two fraudulent money transfers went thru using DHs ATM info". Are these transactions initiated at a physical ATM and using the same non-debit ATM only card?
Was the fraudulent check deposited by someone to your account or against your account?
What does "charges via DDs ATM" mean? Her ATM only card, at a physical ATM using a cloned card?

It sounds like it could be a mixture of things but the plastics part of the fraud will require knowing the answers to the above questions. Due to charge back rights and delays between authorizations and postings debit/credit fraud can hit both the initial card and replacement without it actually indicating the second card was breached.

I do recommend walking into a bank branch and talking to someone, not just calling or doing it online, and they should be able to determine some more looking at logs and the processor network traffic but I can't give you any good guesses without some clarification. Sorry this happened to you.

 

[WDWJDS]

I have some ideas but need you to clarify some things.

Are the cards you are talking about ATM cards (which are only enabled for PIN transactions and have no Visa or MasterCard logo) or are they debit cards that are also used at an ATM?
Clarify the sentence "two fraudulent money transfers went thru using DHs ATM info". Are these transactions initiated at a physical ATM and using the same non-debit ATM only card?
Was the fraudulent check deposited by someone to your account or against your account?
What does "charges via DDs ATM" mean? Her ATM only card, at a physical ATM using a cloned card?

It sounds like it could be a mixture of things but the plastics part of the fraud will require knowing the answers to the above questions. Due to charge back rights and delays between authorizations and postings debit/credit fraud can hit both the initial card and replacement without it actually indicating the second card was breached.

I do recommend walking into a bank branch and talking to someone, not just calling or doing it online, and they should be able to determine some more looking at logs and the processor network traffic but I can't give you any good guesses without some clarification. Sorry this happened to you.

Thank you so much!
First, all cards are ATM with Visa logo and do both ATM transactions and Visa purchases.
The two fraudulent money transfers were P2P money transfers taken out of our joint checking account. The bank CS said they were third party transfers like using PayPal to send money, and DHs ATM/Visa card number was used for that one.

As for the check issue, someone wrote a check out to DHs name, deposited it via mobile deposit using DHs mobile deposit login and then did another P2P transaction from our joint checking account via a third party like PayPal. We were able to see a copy of the actual check (saw the “supposed” check holder’s name) but the bank believes that it’s either a fake check or a stolen one.

As for DD, there were several “Visa Provisioning Services” charges for “0.00” listed on her online banking account. This is what I originally saw on mine when someone tried, but failed, to make charges from my ATM/Visa card. Once we went to the bank, they were able to tell us that someone was trying to make online purchases using DDs ATM/Visa card but they didn’t go thru.

Thanks again for any information you can provide.

 

[RUDisney]

You have more rights when you use your debit card as a credit card transaction, so always use this as a credit card. The money will come from you account just the same, but Reg E allows greater protections under credit cards.

Frankly, I'd rather use my credit cards instead of my debit card for transactions. That's because I know that my limits are high enough that I won't be left with no money if my checking account is drained. But, not everyone has the credit or the willpower to not overspend, so I understand the use of debit cards.

My first thought was that you were using these in the same place and that someone was skimming your cards. That is still a possibility if you are all using the cards at the same locations. The bank will work through the visa/MC system to try to find a common denominator if there are a number of issues from the same area. If a number of affected people are all going to the same restaurant and after that have issues, they will involve law enforcement to see what they can find.

I'm sorry that you're going through this.

 

[rer1972]

It's very possible that your card's information was obtained through a data breach at a retail outlet (like Target had not too long ago) or through the bank itself. Usually, there is a notification sent to customer or the bank will automatically the cards. I would contact the bank and ask if there is any information about data breaches for your cards. If your family often use the cards at the same retail location, it may be that location that had the issue. Having new cards issued, new pins, and new passwords for online access will usually take care of any future attempts.

 

[Hikergirl]

If your card, your dh's card, your checking acct number and your dd's card were all breached I would assume that someone either hacked the bank's system or a computer in your home where you all have used online banking.
If it was just your card, I would think outside retailer but it seems odd that it is your household's banking info that has been breached, or that each of those things were breach separately.

 

[kdonnel]

Financial fraud is most often internal either through a security breach or employee theft.

There is very little you can do to protect yourself.

 

[GreatLakes]

Thank you so much!
First, all cards are ATM with Visa logo and do both ATM transactions and Visa purchases.
The two fraudulent money transfers were P2P money transfers taken out of our joint checking account. The bank CS said they were third party transfers like using PayPal to send money, and DHs ATM/Visa card number was used for that one.

As for the check issue, someone wrote a check out to DHs name, deposited it via mobile deposit using DHs mobile deposit login and then did another P2P transaction from our joint checking account via a third party like PayPal. We were able to see a copy of the actual check (saw the “supposed” check holder’s name) but the bank believes that it’s either a fake check or a stolen one.

As for DD, there were several “Visa Provisioning Services” charges for “0.00” listed on her online banking account. This is what I originally saw on mine when someone tried, but failed, to make charges from my ATM/Visa card. Once we went to the bank, they were able to tell us that someone was trying to make online purchases using DDs ATM/Visa card but they didn’t go thru.

Thanks again for any information you can provide.

Ok, that helps. A few things.

Since the ATM card is also a Debit card there are chargeback rights for the new card when it is replaced. What that means in simple terms is that certain classification of charges made against the already replaced card can hit the new card without the new card being compromised. A hold that needs to transition to a purchase is one example. If the hold was made on the old card but the actual transaction didn't come through until after the replacement you may see a second fraudulent charge and believe the new card is also compromised. This is not the case. The change in card number between hold and posting just routes to the new card using the old card's information. You are likely, in that scenario, safe to continue using the new card.

The P2P transaction using the Visa number is likely related to the breached card. Some P2P providers "ride the debit rails" as opposed to ACH to enable real-time transfers. Other P2P providers process as ACH necessitating all of the delays and processing associated with it. You don't need to know what any of that means other than to say the attempted use of the card may be by the same bad actors that attempted the transaction and isn't a separate breach.

It gets interesting when you add in the remote deposit capture fraud in conjunction with what appears to be multiple different cards attached to the same account. Up until that point this is not really out of the ordinary but that adds some complexity.

My professional, educated guess, tells me one of six things happened in order from most likely to least likely:

You were successfully Phished and unknowingly gave a bad actor your online/mobile banking login credentials.
A breach at the online/mobile banking provider for your financial institution where they have access to all of these items
A breach at a debit/credit processor that also handles remote deposit capture (I believe there are a few of them including the largest, FirstData)
Malware on your computer intercepting information and sending it to a bad actor
Someone you know perpetrating this fraud
Inside job with your financial institution

Without doing any forensic research that is the best I can guess.

 

[WDWJDS]

Ok, that helps. A few things.

Since the ATM card is also a Debit card there are chargeback rights for the new card when it is replaced. What that means in simple terms is that certain classification of charges made against the already replaced card can hit the new card without the new card being compromised. A hold that needs to transition to a purchase is one example. If the hold was made on the old card but the actual transaction didn't come through until after the replacement you may see a second fraudulent charge and believe the new card is also compromised. This is not the case. The change in card number between hold and posting just routes to the new card using the old card's information. You are likely, in that scenario, safe to continue using the new card.

The P2P transaction using the Visa number is likely related to the breached card. Some P2P providers "ride the debit rails" as opposed to ACH to enable real-time transfers. Other P2P providers process as ACH necessitating all of the delays and processing associated with it. You don't need to know what any of that means other than to say the attempted use of the card may be by the same bad actors that attempted the transaction and isn't a separate breach.

It gets interesting when you add in the remote deposit capture fraud in conjunction with what appears to be multiple different cards attached to the same account. Up until that point this is not really out of the ordinary but that adds some complexity.

My professional, educated guess, tells me one of six things happened in order from most likely to least likely:

You were successfully Phished and unknowingly gave a bad actor your online/mobile banking login credentials.
A breach at the online/mobile banking provider for your financial institution where they have access to all of these items
A breach at a debit/credit processor that also handles remote deposit capture (I believe there are a few of them including the largest, FirstData)
Malware on your computer intercepting information and sending it to a bad actor
Someone you know perpetrating this fraud
Inside job with your financial institution

Without doing any forensic research that is the best I can guess.

Thanks so much! With so many different areas being breeched at once, I was thinking it is probably someone we know (all three cards and online banking) or someone at the bank.

The manager is gone for the day so we will go back tomorrow morning.

 

[kaytieeldr]

We have been to the bank at least four times over the past week. Are you saying we should speak with a manager because the customer service reps may have something to do with it?

No. Because the Customer Service Reps are not able to resolve the problem. Unless you bank at a single-unit bank, even if any bank employees are targeting your account doesn't mean it's anyone at your branch.

But honestly? It's more likely the culprit is somebody you know, someone with access to or knowledge of your accounts. Not a bank employee willing to risk their livelihood and, ultimately, freedom.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

Frankly, I'd rather use my credit cards instead of my debit card for transactions. That's because I know that my limits are high enough that I won't be left with no money if my checking account is drained.

^^^This right here.

Credit card charges can be disputed and technically you haven't lost anything yet to a fraudulent credit card charge as all it's really just a loan.

You can dispute it forever and really have lost nothing whereas a debit card tied to your bank account could potentially drain that entire account and you'll be out that money until it is resolved. If over spending is an issue, get cards with lower available credit or at very least prepaid cards.

I never use debit card except at ATM's and then only at ATM's at the bank. Too many simmers and scammers out there.

 

[rwdavis2]

After having debit card number skimmed our bank told us to only use the card as an ATM card and NOT as a debit card. The consequences can be far worse with a debit card.

 

[barkley]

I am the Treasurer for a professional society. We are in Florida, and someone in Massachusetts created fake checks with our routing and account numbers. They had run up about $3,500 in purchases and cash withdrawals before I just happened to notice it--not the bank! (I was checking our account online mid-month for an anticipated electronic deposit, and the out-of-sequence check numbers jumped right out at me.) We closed the account and opened a new one, at another bank. We did get all the money back from the old bank. I reported it to the police, but the guy did not seem hopeful of anyone actually getting caught. It is so easy to get information from a check, but it was just strange that it was up in Mass. and not locally where we actually use our relatively few number of checks.

THIS.

have a friend whose bank accounts were almost emptied b/c a ring of thieves were driving around and taking OUTGOING mail from people's mail boxes-just one item from each. always a bill that the person wouldn't likely realized hadn't reached the recipient for a good few weeks (utility most often). the stolen checks were used to create new checks to raid the accounts. this is why i don't put mail w/payments in my mailbox.

as far as bank breach-dd's account was but internal fraud caught it. someone made a several thousand dollar (i'm guessing reservation????) at disney china.