Back to school *vent*

[nicki.momof3]

Yeah, you are right. We teach our children never ever to share because we don't want all their supplies dumped in a bucket for the whole class to use. We tell them that no matter what hold on to your stuff even if it means Suzy will fail her test because she doesn't have a pencil.:rolleyes: All those other parents who don't send in any school supplies are doing a stellar job teaching "sharing". Oh- and FTR- even though we can't stand the community stuff nonsense we still participate in it.

So a house burned down in our neighborhod this week (to the ground). My nice sharing, care for others type of children came up with the idea to have a lemonade stand to raise $ for the family that lost everything. They are insisting on putting in their own $$ also.

Teaching children to share and care about others (example share a pencil so someone does not fail a test) transfers over into all parts of their lives.

It is sad that you are teaching your children that is it OK to be selfish and that it is ok to sit back and see someone distressed (because sitting back and watching someone fail a test because they have no pencil has to look distressful).

The lessons you teach your children now will carry with them for a lifetime.

 

[luvmy3]

The 3 subjects were .99 at Walgreens last week. I think they are $1.47 at Walmart this week.

Maggie

Thanks for the info, I'm off to Walmart today so hopefully I'll find the colors I need.

When we were in school, before the schools had the need to micromanage, if we forgot the science notebook, we did without. We quietly asked to borrow paper and pencil, and didn't forget it the next day. Natural and logical.

The consequences for being unprepared haven't changed. The color system is just a tool to help kids learn to be organized. It helps them now and hopefully follows them through the rest of their academic life. It also helps the teachers teach without distraction in a classroom full of 30 kids, which you may see as micromanaging but it seems pretty necessary and logical to be able to conduct a 30 minute class without kids having to search for their notebooks or ask to borrow pens and paper for the first 10 minutes.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Thanks for the info, I'm off to Walmart today so hopefully I'll find the colors I need.




The consequences for being unprepared haven't changed The color system is just a tool to help kids learn to be organized. It helps them now and hopefully follows them through the rest of their academic life. It also helps the teachers teach without distraction in a classroom full of 30 kids, which you may see as micromanaging but it seems pretty necessary and logical to be able to conduct a 30 minute class without kids having to search for their notebooks or ask to borrow pens and paper for the first 10 minutes.

Considering test scores have gone down rather than rising, I think we survived ok. We didn't disrupt the class. We would have gotten in trouble for that. Classes here are 42 minutes in middle school. Are yours really 30 minutes? How many periods do you have/how long is your school day?

 

[torinsmom]

A veteran early childhood teacher chiming in on the "communal supplies" issue.

I taught Kindergarten for 20 years, and now teach pre-Kindergarten. When I started teaching, the kids were responsible for their own crayons, glue sticks, pencils, etc. They each had a little container to keep them in, everything was labeled with their name, initials, or number (I tried this for several years with different methods).

What a nightmare. Kids that age just aren't capable of taking care of their things. Finding missing crayons, or finding the owner of a *found* crayon, took up a lot of time. Think about it -- if I had 20 Kindies with 24 crayons each, that's a total of 480 crayons ALL WITH A SPECIFIC OWNER to keep track of throughout the day. And as the kids moved from center to center, they had to bring their supplies with them, and things were always spilling.

A colleague convinced me to try the "communal" approach one year, and I've never looked back. I pool the crayons, glue sticks and pencils into a big bin and put it in my closet. I put out two baskets of crayons and a cup of pencils at each table. When a crayon is found on the floor, we just put it in any old basket.

People who whine about communal supplies have never taught early childhood.

Very true! I teach PreK/K and all the classes in my age group except one do communal supplies. We definitely teach our students responsibility(put your name on your paper, tuck your chair in, clean up your mess, etc.), but 20 4-5 year olds with their own supplies( 24 crayons, 3 pencils, pencil sharpener, 2 glue sticks, scissors, 8 colored pencils) to keep track of simply does not work. One class does have pencil boxes with their supplies in there. When we decided to do our math lesson together for a few months, I ended up "loaning" those kids so much stuff, because they had lost a crayon or pencil. Meanwhile, mine all went and got a pencil from our pencil jar on the shelf and a ziploc of crayons from our crayon basket and were set.

I think people have this idea that 1/2 the class brings the supplies and then the other 1/2 doesn't bring anything. My school was Title I last year and with 19 kids in my class, we only had 2 who didn't bring all the supplies in at the beginning of the year. I could easily buy supplies for those 2 and not do communal supplies, but that is not going to solve the problem I see. It's the kids not keeping up with things, spilling them, and things like that. It wastes the time that should be spent learning.

Besides, would the child bring the pencil box full of supplies every night for the parent to check and see if they need new pencils, a new red crayon, or a new glue stick? And are parents really going to check every night? And is that pencil box going to get back in the backpack for the next day? In my experience sending home papers needing to be signed in my students' take home folder, the parents don't even look at that folder for 2-3 days at a time. I can't imagine that ever working with the younger kids, and unless our principal makes us stop doing communal supplies, we will keep doing it. Truthfully, it does not matter to me if parents like it or not; they are not the ones that have to deal with it in the classroom.

Marsha

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I think that age matters. What makes sense in K doesn't in 3rd and is stupid in 7th!

 

[Alesia]

Considering test scores have gone down rather than rising, I think we survived ok.

That is an unfair statement, though. Standardized tests are much more difficult than they used to be. Years ago, when I took the ISTEP, it was easy. Ridiculously easy. Have you seen the test lately? I have. There is no comparison.

 

[Alesia]

I think that age matters. What makes sense in K doesn't in 3rd and is stupid in 7th!

I've never heard of a 7th grade calss sharing supplies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's got to be pretty rare. Honestly, I've never heard of a 3rd grade class sharing supplies, but I suppose it does happen.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

That is an unfair statement, though. Standardized tests are much more difficult than they used to be. Years ago, when I took the ISTEP, it was easy. Ridiculously easy. Have you seen the test lately? I have. There is no comparison.

Standardized tests were dumbed down years ago. The scoring changed so that more people would do well. The only positive change is the essay, and that is unfortunately subjective.

As for knowing what is on the tests, you bet I know. I have 3 sons in college, including one starting this fall. Practice tests and prep are a standard in this house!

 

[torinsmom]

Considering test scores have gone down rather than rising, I think we survived ok. We didn't disrupt the class. We would have gotten in trouble for that. Classes here are 42 minutes in middle school. Are yours really 30 minutes? How many periods do you have/how long is your school day?

Just have to laugh at this The scores have gone down because they keep raising the standards! There are probably lots of very educated parents who would not be able to pass the 8th grade End of Grade tests. In our state, when most kids start passing the EOG, they renorm it, so it is harder to pass. In 7th grade DS received a mid-4(excellent) on the EOG, then they renormed it and he barely got a 3(they have to make a 3 to pass) in 8th grade.

Another reason for the declining scores is NCLB. They give the teachers so much to cover that they can't spend the time to make sure every child understands the material. There is no time for reteaching; for students who can't make it to before school tutoring, they are on their own. My son took Algebra I and even though I was a math whiz(got through advanced math) in high school, I could not help him with the homework. They are teaching much higher concepts than they did when I was his age.

Not only that, you have high schools on a block system, where the kids have 4 classes per day for a semester and then they take 4 more. They get the same amount of hours for each course, but they are moving through topics much faster. IMHO, this is just too fast, especially for math.

Marsha

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I've never heard of a 7th grade calss sharing supplies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's got to be pretty rare. Honestly, I've never heard of a 3rd grade class sharing supplies, but I suppose it does happen.

I was just stating that different situations call for different behaviors. I surely hope no 7th grade class needs a bucket of crayolas! Sorry for the confusion!

 

[luvmy3]

Considering test scores have gone down rather than rising, I think we survived ok. We didn't disrupt the class. We would have gotten in trouble for that. Classes here are 42 minutes in middle school. Are yours really 30 minutes? How many periods do you have/how long is your school day?

I just threw the 30 minutes out there , my dd starts middle school this year and we haven't recieved her schedule yet but I assume they are around 40 minutes too. I thought they said 9 periods a day starts at 8 and ends at 2.

As far as the test scores, maybe thats why schools decided to adopt a system to help the students be more organized today I don't believe thats the answer, there are many factors to consider but I don't see a problem with a school doing what it can when there are so many things that happen at home that are beyond their control. Maybe if more parents stepped up and put their children's academics at the top of the priority list there wouldn't be a need for school's to micromanage the students while they are in school? (Before anyone gets all up in arms, that was a general statement not one directed at any DISer in this thread ).

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I just threw the 30 minutes out there , my dd starts middle school this year and we haven't recieved her schedule yet but I assume they are around 40 minutes too. I thought they said 9 periods a day starts at 8 and ends at 2.

As far as the test scores, maybe thats why schools decided to adopt a system to help the students be more organized today I don't believe thats the answer, there are many factors to consider but I don't see a problem with a school doing what it can when there are so many things that happen at home that are beyond their control. Maybe if more parents stepped up and put their children's academics at the top of the priority list there wouldn't be a need for school's to micromanage the students while they are in school? (Before anyone gets all up in arms, that was a general statement not one directed at any DISer in this thread ).

Good luck with middle school! I think that the micromanaging decreases the committment, involvement and personal responsibility. If you are spoonfed, you get lazy, in other words. It is just my opinion, of course. I think when you trust kids (depending on age) that they develop self confidence. At least it works that way for us, and with clients that I have worked with.

 

[taitai]

We also start next Monday and it will be 110 for at least another month. We have a "cool room" that shows movies at Lunch recess that the kids can go to if they want. When the temp goes over 115 it is mandatory. It is a "Hot Day Schedule." It is funny because we maybe have 2-3 Rainy Day Schedule days, but probably 10+ "Hot Days."

My district does charge the kids to play sports. With recent budget cuts, they dropped all middle school sports and raised the HS fee to $150 a kid per sport- no family max. Before this it was $100 per kid, $300 family limit. We had a sales tax pass last May to help with ed (and police/fire) costs. If it hadn't passed, among other things, sports would have been raised to $450 per kid per sport, no assistance (currently free/ reduced lunch kids are exempt). Max class sizes also would have raised another 4-6 kids (30 K (no aides), 32 1st, 35 2nd-3rd, 38 4th-5th) and all elementary PE, Art, Music and Library would have been cut. So, thank God it passed! As it is, I am still waiting to hear if I have a job next week- school starts a week from today and I have no idea if I will have a job, what school it may be at or what grade I may teach. Awesome.

Wow. I find this so interesting...the difference between schools. And, once again, I say THANK GOD for Minnesota. We certainly don't have Hot Days here and the kids go out every single day for recess unless the wind chill is below -15 or something similar. So, they basically go out every single day but one or two all winter.

What I find most interesting is the class size. At our elementary school, the K classes average about 15 kids (my son had 13) and the first grade is roughly similar. I think, by 5th grade, they go up to 22 or so but I don't know Middle School numbers. We have all the specials in full force and no pay for play sports. Our Community is wonderful in supporting the schools (people get that their housing values have not declined due to the high quality of the schools...people WANT to live here) and always pass levies for school funding.

One thing that is really great about Minnesota is the Open Enrollment program. Basically, any kid can go to any school in the state as long as there is room. So, the schools really work very, very hard to be the best they can possibly be in order to attract as many students as possible (the money follows the student). So, we have all sorts of innovative programs and wonderful staff and facilities. I don't think there is a single teacher in our Elementary school with less than a Masters Degree.

I keep telling my husband that I will never leave this state until the kids are in college. We have too much of a good thing going here.

Good luck with your new school year. Hope everyone figures out all the supply stuff. We don't start until Sept 7th (a ridiculous MN law that you can't start til after Labor Day....keeps the resorts in business) but school supplies purchased in the Spring via the PTO (which gets them at cost and does not charge a fee...not a fundraiser...just something helpful to parents).

 

[threecrazykids]

Just have to laugh at this The scores have gone down because they keep raising the standards! There are probably lots of very educated parents who would not be able to pass the 8th grade End of Grade tests. In our state, when most kids start passing the EOG, they renorm it, so it is harder to pass. In 7th grade DS received a mid-4(excellent) on the EOG, then they renormed it and he barely got a 3(they have to make a 3 to pass) in 8th grade.

Another reason for the declining scores is NCLB. They give the teachers so much to cover that they can't spend the time to make sure every child understands the material. There is no time for reteaching; for students who can't make it to before school tutoring, they are on their own. My son took Algebra I and even though I was a math whiz(got through advanced math) in high school, I could not help him with the homework. They are teaching much higher concepts than they did when I was his age.

Not only that, you have high schools on a block system, where the kids have 4 classes per day for a semester and then they take 4 more. They get the same amount of hours for each course, but they are moving through topics much faster. IMHO, this is just too fast, especially for math.

Marsha

My kids middle school AND high school are on block scheduling and I absolutely LOATHE it. My son struggles terribly in math, I agree with you completely.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

So a house burned down in our neighborhod this week (to the ground). My nice sharing, care for others type of children came up with the idea to have a lemonade stand to raise $ for the family that lost everything. They are insisting on putting in their own $$ also.

Teaching children to share and care about others (example share a pencil so someone does not fail a test) transfers over into all parts of their lives.

It is sad that you are teaching your children that is it OK to be selfish and that it is ok to sit back and see someone distressed (because sitting back and watching someone fail a test because they have no pencil has to look distressful).

The lessons you teach your children now will carry with them for a lifetime.

You're kidding right? I was being sarcastic. That was why I put the smiley after it.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

i do put a lot of blame on NCLB also. There is no way anyone with sense shouldn't see how screwed up it is. I feel so bad that teachers have to deal with it. I considered spreading a rumor email of conspiracy. The govt. is really trying to dumb down the general pop!j/k

 

[luvmy3]

Good luck with middle school! I think that the micromanaging decreases the committment, involvement and personal responsibility. If you are spoonfed, you get lazy, in other words. It is just my opinion, of course. I think when you trust kids (depending on age) that they develop self confidence. At least it works that way for us, and with clients that I have worked with.

I totally agree with this, I just don't see the color thing as spoonfeeding I guess.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I totally agree with this, I just don't see the color thing as spoonfeeding I guess.

YMMV, of course. I think suggesting and teaching kids to organize their lives is one thing. Organizing for them doesn't teach them how. We organized in our own way. You knew that the dog folder was french, or you read the cover.

Anyway, I think it is a pitb for a lot of parents, or groups helping the students get what they need.

 

[Leajess99]

I agree with this, especially in middle school and high school. Kids have to learn at some point that there isn't always going to be someone there with a "backup" when you fail to remember or organize your things. These are life lessons-organization, preparation, etc. There are parents running home and getting items for their kids that they left at home several days a week when they got on the bus or got to school and realized they forgot their homework, book, notebook. CRAZY. I went to a friends house not too long ago and there on the bathroom counter was a checklist of things for her kids to remember-brush your teeth, comb your hair, CHANGE YOUR UNDERWEAR, wear deodorant, pick up your towel. Her kids are in middle school and high school. WOW was all I could think to myself.

I try to teach my kids things that are going to benefit them BEYOND high school...when they are in the real world. My boss is certainly going to have consequences for me failing to remember things every day. And trust me, calling my mom wouldn't be an option. LOL

The sad thing is that even in College you have the kids that don't bring any paper or pens and have to find someone else to borrow from. Even on test days some don't bring anything with them.

 

[torinsmom]

Good luck with middle school! I think that the micromanaging decreases the committment, involvement and personal responsibility. If you are spoonfed, you get lazy, in other words. It is just my opinion, of course. I think when you trust kids (depending on age) that they develop self confidence. At least it works that way for us, and with clients that I have worked with.

I don't see teaching kids a way to be organized as spoonfeeding them. Many kids will continue to use organization methods they learned in elementary school throughout school. My son is in high school and none of his teachers requested certain colors of folders, notebooks. He still wants a different color for each subject, so when he goes to grab his history notebook, he doesn't have to look at what is written on three books.

My kids middle school AND high school are on block scheduling and I absolutely LOATHE it. My son struggles terribly in math, I agree with you completely.

You might want to gather some other parents that feel the same way together and talk to someone in your district about math. I wish I had known sooner what a problem it would be. They need to offer one section of at least Algebra I and Geometry that lasts the whole year, like Algebra Ia and Ib. Even kids with math disabilities(like my son) are expected to complete each math in one semester and there are just too many concepts for most of them to get it before they move on. Since math builds, we are doing a disservice to our kids. These kids fail the first time and then pass the second, which proves to me that they can get the concepts if they are exposed for longer to each topic.

Anyone who thinks the tests have been dumbed down seriously needs to get copies of a retired end of grade test for 7th or 8th grade and then decide. Of course, we didn't have EOG tests, so there is nothing to compare them to. I can tell you that in K, all we did was play with blocks, sing songs, and have a nap. My K's have to be reading full sentences including sight words, recognize numbers through at least 30, and write three sentences to a topic. The standards have definitely been raised over the years.

Marsha