Attention animal rights activists!

These are - as you already know - the facts that I believe in and nothing you say is ever going to make me change my mind! Sorry RC!
What seals are hunted?
Canada’s Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) is responsible for setting the Total Allowable Catch (TAC) for three seal species. Harp seals (Phoca groenlandica) are the primary target of the commercial seal hunt but Hooded seals (Cystophora cristata) and Grey seals (Halichoerus grypus) are hunted as well.

What is the natural life expectancy of the harp seal and at what age are they hunted?The harp seal can live up to 35 years in the wild but the vast majority hunted every year (98% last year) is less than 12 weeks old. These defenseless pups make easy targets and their “prime condition” pelts are worth more than the adults’.

Is it now illegal to hunt baby seals?In 1983, the European Economic Community (EEC) instituted a ban on the importation of pelts from newborn harp seal pups (whitecoats) and hooded seal pups (bluebacks). The Canadian government responded to the international pressure in 1987 and banned the commercial killing of seal pups less than 12 days of age. However, the seal pups are fair game as soon as they start to molt their first hairs at 12 days old. Many of the seals killed had yet to eat their first solid food or learn how to swim. When the large sealing vessels arrive, they literally have nowhere to escape.

The DFO’s own statistics indicate that the vast majority of seals killed every year are between 12 days to 12 weeks old. These are most certainly pups by any biological definition. Harp seals do not reach sexual maturity until 4-6 years of age.


2. When and where are seals hunted?

When and where does Canada’s commercial seal hunt occur?Although the season for hunting seals is open from November 15 to May 15, the majority are killed in the spring after the mother seals have given birth to their pups. The large-scale hunt usually begins at the end of March in the waters and on ice floes off Canada’s eastern coast. There are two main areas where the hunt occurs: in the Gulf of the St. Lawrence, just east of the Magdalen Islands and off the coast of northeastern Newfoundland in an area known as the “Front”.

3. The largest slaughter
How many seals are hunted every year?Canada’s seal hunt is the largest deliberate slaughter of marine mammals on the planet.

Canada's Department of Fisheries and Oceans has authorized the killing of
335,000 harp seals, 10,000 hooded seals and 10,400 grey seals during the
2006 commercial hunt. Between 2003-2005, more than 1 million harp and
hooded seals were slaughtered for their skins.

4. Cruelty on ice
How are the seals killed?Seals can be legally killed with wooden clubs, hakapiks (large ice-pick-like clubs) and guns. In the Gulf of St. Lawrence, clubs and hakapiks are the killing implement of choice because they are cheaper to use and each bullet hole depreciates the value of the pelt. The seal hunt that takes place in the Front happens in April when the ice starts to break up as a result of the spring thaw. Since there is little ice to stand on, the hunters normally shoot at seals from their moving vessels. Regardless of which killing method is used, the seals suffer an agonizing death. The pups that try to escape under the ice are likely to drown along with the many seals that are wounded in the water.

Is the seal hunt conducted humanely?
Last year, 146,000 seals were killed in less than two days. This statistic is telling enough; these hunters do not take the time to ensure a humane kill in their race to acquire the most pelts.

Veterinarians have shockingly documented seals being skinned alive. In 2001, an independent team of veterinary experts studied Canada's commercial seal hunt. Their report concluded that in 42% of the cases they examined, the seal did not show enough evidence of cranial injury to even guarantee unconsciousness at the time of skinning. Video footage taken by hunt observers shows that many sealers do not conduct the Blink-reflex Test to ensure each seal is rendered unconscious before skinning, although the test is quick, simple and required by law.

The short duration of this hunt as well as the geographic and financial obstacles to monitoring the hunt, makes it impossible to ensure that the seals are killed humanely.

5. Who hunts seals?
Who hunts seals?Hunting for seals (or sealing) is an off-season activity conducted by a few thousand commercial fishers from Newfoundland and Quebec. Anyone can acquire a license to hunt seals which costs merely $5 /year. Sealers make roughly 5% of their income from slaughtering seals and 95% from the fishing industry.

Do Canadian aboriginals hunt seals?
Canada’s commercial seal hunt is an industrial scale slaughter conducted almost entirely by non-aboriginal people from Canada’s east coast. Less than 1% of the seals killed in the commercial hunt off the Atlantic coast may have been killed by aboriginals residing in Labrador. In the Arctic, the Inuit hunt adult ring seals for subsistence purposes.

WSPA is not opposed to the hunting of seals by aboriginal people for subsistence purposes provided that it is conducted humanely at a sustainable level. When the commercial seal hunt ends on Canada’s east coast, native families will still be able to hunt individual seals for food and clothing.

6. Seal products
Why are seals hunted? As there is almost no market for seal meat, the carcasses are normally left to rot on the ice or they are dumped into the ocean. There is a small market for seal oil (both for industrial purposes and for human consumption) and in the past, seal *****es were sold in Asian markets as an aphrodisiac. The only economically valuable part of the seal is its fur – a non-essential luxury product that no one really needs.

7. Seal population

How many seals are there?
When Europeans first arrived on Canada’s eastern coast, there were an estimated 40 million seals living in balance with cod and other fish species, so abundant they impeded the passage of ships. Today, the Canadian government estimates there are some 5.8 million seals in eastern Canadian waters and the cod are on the brink of extinction.

Are seals endangered?While the harp seal is not on Canada’s species at risk list, it is unlikely that the population can continue to withstand the current levels of exploitation.
The last time this many seals were killed was in the 50’s and 60’s (before the hunt was managed by the Canadian government) when nearly 2/3 of the population was wiped out. By the mid 70’s, senior scientists employed by the Canadian government recommended the commercial hunt be suspended for at least ten years to allow the troubled population to recover.

Unlike the walrus, pilot whale, polar bear, wolf, Labrador duck and Eskimo Curlew that were commercially exploited to extinction in Atlantic Canada years ago, the future of Canada’s harp and hooded seal population is now also jeopardized by global warming. To raise their pups, these seals are dependant on ice coverage, which has declined significantly over the years. The decline in sea ice could lead to a dramatic increase in seal mortality rates.

Seals are also threatened by unsustainable fishing practices which are not only depleting their food sources but entangle them in non-selective nets and trawls.Thousands of seals are caught every year as bycatch in gillnets.

It is naïve to think Canadian seal populations are doing just fine when they have been subjected to the largest cull in half a century as well as the implications of a degraded marine ecosystem due to over-fishing, pollution and climate change.

8. Seals and fish

What do seals eat?Harp seals consume a wide variety of fish and invertebrate species including euphausiids, cod, capelin and shrimp. Their diet varies with age, season, location and year.

Are seals threatening the recovery of north Atlantic cod stocks?
Supporters of the hunt still believe that there are too many seals eating far too much fish. When North Atlantic cod stocks were decimated in the early 90’s by overfishing and government mismanagement, seals quickly became the politically convenient scapegoats for the economic crisis.

After surveying the stomach contents of harp seals, scientists estimate that commercially fished cod comprises just 3% of the seal’s diet. Since harp seals also consume many significant predators of cod, killing hundreds of thousands of seals every year could lead to an increase in predatory fish populations and thus a further decline in cod and other groundfish.

9. Subsidized cruelty: Is it worth it?
What is the economic value of the seal hunt?
Sealing is an off-season activity for those primarily employed in the commercial fisheries. They make roughly 5% of their income from killing seals and 95% from the fishing industry.
Even in Newfoundland where the vast majority of sealers live, sealing only accounts for less than 1% of the province’s Gross Domestic Product and revenues comprise just 2% of the fishery’s total landed value. In comparison, shellfish such as snow crab represent 80% of the landed value. In a record profit year, the seal hunt is valued at $16 million.

Is the seal hunt subsidized?The seal hunt has been artificially sustained through government subsidies, without these, the hunt is very likely a net cost to Canada. According to study conducted by the Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment, more than $20 million in subsidies were provided to the sealing industry between 1995 and 2001. Government subsidies have been provided to seal processing industry for worker’s salaries and upgrades and to enhance the development and promotion of new markets for seal products. The study concluded that the commercial hunt provided 100-120 full-time jobs in sealing and processing and Canadian taxpayers are spending $28,250 - $33,900 for each of these positions. Taxpayers also pay for the Canadian Coast Guard which breaks the ice every year so that the sealing vessels can access the seals.

Subsidizing an industry which only employs a hundred people full time and a few thousand for a few weeks of the year is a bad investment for the country

2006 World Society for the Protection of Animals - WSPA

And seriously RC - why don't you just go start a new thread called something like "supporters of the canadian seal hunt wanted" or something. You and I are not seeing thing from the same perspective I'm afraid - hence the title of this thread.

Once again Rc, thanks for the debate. I have now put you on ignore since I'm quite franky getting tired and extremely bored with you hijacking this thread! I don't know what your motives are for doing so but it sure makes us all wonder....!

Laters.....!
 
RoyalCanadian said:
There's the facts -- glad you like them Dakota_Lynn.



And I have posted my own facts time and again. You don't like mine anymore than I like yours. It's called a disagreement. You obviously don't care much for the experience of not having others believe in your every word, but hey, this is real life and not everybody out there will buy what you have to say. You'll save yourself a lot of stress if you just live with it.




As of now, you are on IGNORE. I'm sick of dealing with you. I'd like my thread to go back on topic. You can stay if you wish and post, but I doubt anybody is going to pay much attention any longer. Have a nice life.
 
jess_denmark said:
And seriously RC - why don't you just go start a new thread called something like "supporters of the canadian seal hunt wanted"

Why start a new thread on a subject when one is already available? From my long experience on the Disboards, it is preferable that there be one thread on a topic.

My reasons for posting are rather obvious -- this is a Canadian subject. Neither you nor Dakota_Lynn seem to have any real awareness of the facts. Instead you have allowed your opinions to be coloured by the extremist opinions of animal rights groups who have absolutely no concern at all for the welfare of human beings.

So long as you continue to post lies about the Canadian seal-hunt, no matter how well-intentioned you may be I will be here to post the facts and honest reporting.
 
Dakota_Lynn said:
And I have posted my own facts time and again.

Sad to say, little of what you have posted on the Canadian seal hunt is based in fact. It's mostly conjecture and misinformation provided by the WSPA, HSUS and IFAW. These organization decry what they consider to be an inhumane seal hunt, even though an independent Canadian veterinary group has concluded that over 98% of the seals killed were killed humanely. The HSUS isn't interested in any attempts to make the hunt even more humane -- methods suggested by the Independent Veterinary Monitoring Group. (Google their website -- interesting read on their report.) The HSUS wants the hunt shut down, regardless of who it might affect.

The WSPA seems to think they are earning themselves brownie points by pointing out that they have no qualm with the hunting of seals by Canadian aboriginal groups -- however, they don't see that their attempts to shut down the hunt would severely impact these exact same Canadian aboriginal group's ability to earn income from the sale of legally and humanely harvested seal pelts.

Dakota_Lynn said:
As of now, you are on IGNORE. I'm sick of dealing with you. I'd like my thread to go back on topic. You can stay if you wish and post, but I doubt anybody is going to pay much attention any longer. Have a nice life.

Nice to see the manner in which you deal with those with whom you do not agree. I guess it is the fashion in which Rebecca Aldworth would act herself. As for me, I'm willing to read whatever you and jess_denmark might have to say on this subject. Even if I don't necessarily agree with your opinions, I'm willing to read them.
 

Well as the Great Karnack would say.. I predict...this thread will be locked and closed within the night...
 
Regardless of one's position on the seal hunt, I'm sure none of us here would wish injury upon anyone -- whether they are seal hunter or seal hunt protestor.

I see Rebecca continues with her dramatics and the threat of legal action. This makes two threats of legal action -- one asking for an injunction against the Canadian government and now she wants to sue the residents of Blanc-Sablon. She sure knows how to win friends and influence people, doesn't she? :rolleyes:

15/04/2006 5:44:54 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A seal hunter was flown to hospital Saturday after a gun exploded and injured his hand, as the annual hunt off Newfoundland started to wind down.

Coast guard spokesman Kevin Barnes told Canadian Press that the 33-year-old man was on a vessel in the Strait of Belle Isle when a sealing gun exploded and severely damaged his hand.

The injured man was flown for treatment to a hospital in St. Anthony, on the northern tip of Newfoundland.

That was just one of several minor incidents since the annual seal hunt moved on Wednesday to the ice-cold waters off Labrador, an area known as the Front.

The larger boats had already taken their portion of the quota of 230,000 seals, while fisheries officials have temporarily called off some of the smaller boats to give sealers from other areas a fair chance at taking seals.

"If they were given free reign, they could take that allocation in a few days," said Fisheries Department spokesman Larry Yetman.

Meanwhile, members of the International Fund for Animal Welfare ended their vigil and went home on Friday, a day after a confrontation with sealers in the Labrador community of Cartwright.

Members of the Humane Society of the United States had a similar confrontation on Wednesday, but spokeswoman Rebecca Aldworth said that wouldn't stop her group from filming the hunt by helicopter.

"Just because some people choose to view an activity as acceptable and humane does not make it so," said Aldworth.

Aldworth vowed to take legal action against the hunt supporters in Cartwright and against a group of residents in the eastern Quebec community of Blanc-Sablon who surrounded a small hotel where her group was staying on Thursday.

Quebec provincial police officers escorted the activists, reporters and photographers to a nearby airport.​
 
DisneyJen0504 said:
Dh and I both signed the petition.
The whole situation makes me sick to my stomach.

Thank you DisneyJen and Dh :)
I personally couldn't agree with you more!
 
jekajekalynn said:
Well as the Great Karnack would say.. I predict...this thread will be locked and closed within the night...

Well, certainly that is were it was headed. However, in putting RC on ignore, jess and I felt we could save this thread from a premature closing. And as long as people are reading and signing, it is premature to even think of closing it.

I'm not afraid to debate and discuss an issue with a person as long as insults and sarcasm are kept at a minimal. I felt there was a certain amount of "I know more than you do and you are an idiot" kind of debating more than honest, mature debating that happens when two people are interested in finding common ground; or at the very least, coming to some understanding of the other person's side, even if there can't be any kind of agreement. The "debate" that was going on between us and RC had, as he said himself, had run its course and was time to end. His suggestion was to close the thread but jess and I felt that was the wrong choice to make. After all, the only thing that had become worn out is the debate between us and him...not the need to reach out to people to get signatures and sympathy for the seals. People are still seeing the thread and signing; that is reason to keep it open. Since RC likes antagonizing us and since he felt the debate was over, we opted to put him on ignore so we could easily ignore the "bait" that no doubt he continues to lay down for us. Everybody wins this way. RC can continue to post whatever he wants. And by his own admission, the debate should end so he should be happy that we are no longer willing to debate with him. And jess and I are happy because we are back to the purpose for which this thread was intended; to help create awareness for the seals. We all win this way. :sunny:
 
Dakota_Lynn said:
I'm not afraid to debate and discuss an issue with a person as long as insults and sarcasm are kept at a minimal. I felt there was a certain amount of "I know more than you do and you are an idiot" kind of debating

I think that has been happening on both sides.
 
"Rome, April 14 2006 - Italy on Friday urged the European Union to take action to discourage seal-hunting as a national ban on the import of seal skins came into effect."

This is definitely a step in the right direction!!! :)
 
jess_denmark said:
"Rome, April 14 2006 - Italy on Friday urged the European Union to take action to discourage seal-hunting as a national ban on the import of seal skins came into effect."

Was Italy ever a significant importer of seal skins?
 
declansdad said:
I think that has been happening on both sides.

Which is exactly why I made the decision to end my part of this debate. When people lay enough bait for me I eventually bite and I didn't want to engage in a debate filled with sarcasm and insults.
 
Dakota_Lynn said:
Which is exactly why I made the decision to end my part of this debate. When people lay enough bait for me I eventually bite and I didn't want to engage in a debate filled with sarcasm and insults.

You know Dakota_Lynn, sometimes you just have to "consider the sources" and ignore them.

I hope that one day someone will beat those animal killers over their heads and then skin them while they are barely still alive so they can feel their own flesh being torn away from their bodies. Maybe then they will get just a little bit of a clue as to what the innocent, defenseless animals go through. Graphic? Sure. But so is what is happening to the animals, and all in the name of greed. And this also goes for the animals (dogs, cats rabbits, etc.) in other countries, not just seals.

So, Dakota_Lynn, you just keep advocating for these animals. You are doing a fine job! You have a lot of support. :)
 
disneyaggie said:
You know Dakota_Lynn, sometimes you just have to "consider the sources" and ignore them.

I hope that one day someone will beat those animal killers over their heads and then skin them while they are barely still alive so they can feel their own flesh being torn away from their bodies. Maybe then they will get just a little bit of a clue as to what the innocent, defenseless animals go through. Graphic? Sure. But so is what is happening to the animals, and all in the name of greed. And this also goes for the animals (dogs, cats rabbits, etc.) in other countries, not just seals.

So, Dakota_Lynn, you just keep advocating for these animals. You are doing a fine job! You have a lot of support. :)

I'm guessing you must not eat meat of any kind, wear leather of any kind, nor do you use fertilizer on lawns or gardens or feed pet food containing meat of any kind to pets.

I would not begrudge the HSUS's efforts to wipe out the seal hunt and the economic livelihoods of the seal hunters (none of whom I suspect carry out this dangerous and ugly work for greed) if they paid equivalent attention to other animal rights issues throughout the world.

The HSUS, IFAW and WSPA use a significant portion of their resources including the funds raised through public donation in an attempt to combat the Canadian seal hunt -- a $16 million/year industry.

Conversely, the practise of shark finning is considered by some environmentalists to be a $240 million/year industry and yet the HSUS doesn't have much to say about the subject -- even though shark fins are readily available in Asian markets throughout the United States and shark fin soup is available on the menus of many Asian restaurants.

Why the discrepancy between causes? Is the HSUS in favour of shark finning or have they simply realized that a picture of a cute harp seal pup, which haven't been hunted in nearly 20 years, brings in a lot more money than the picture of a shark being killed solely for its dorsal fin?

All things in perspective.
 
disneyaggie said:
I hope that one day someone will beat those animal killers over their heads and then skin them while they are barely still alive so they can feel their own flesh being torn away from their bodies.

Every year the accusation of animals being skinned alive is made by various protest groups. Ask yourselves, why would a hunter try to skin an animal alive when killing it first would make the job that much easier? Do the hunters save any appreciable time or resources by skinning animals alive? The answer is obviously no and the chances of animals being skinned alive are remote. Any hunter that did behave in this manner deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for violating the hunt regulations.

Killing isn’t a pleasant thing to view especially when evaluated from an urbanized sensibility in which meat is something purchased from a store wrapped in plastic. But it does occur every day to feed many people who choose to eat meat. The meat you eat doesn’t come from a grocery store; it comes from an animal that was killed in a slaughterhouse using techniques very similar to the Canadian seal hunt.
 
C'mon everyone! Look at it this way on the bright side, all the bickering you guys on both sides have done between each other has signifacantly increased your own personal post numbers! :rotfl2: :rotfl:
 


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