Attendance Down, Revenue Up

IF people are getting park hoppers .. when I've had hoppers, yes .. that is what I used to do (as an adult). But now going with little kids .. I don't see doing that.

I think you are also underestimating what Disney Springs is going to do to the WDW nightlife. I know I (once I get back there now that is nearly done) (and probably MANY MANY others) would prefer to just hop over to Disney Springs (for free). Shopping AND way more dining options that are just as exotic (and probably cheaper for what you get) than World Showcase.
To me Disney Springs (now that is near completion) will kill the uniqueness and exotic nature that once was the World Showcase and make Epcot even more a ghost town.

Why pay for a cover charge (hopper pass) to go to a dated area with a lot of walking with only a handful of restaurants when you can go to Disney Springs and not only see the brand new area, but have more modern shopping options and exotic dishes? Italian? Japanese? They have those style of restaurants and more in Disney Springs from what I've seen .. plus a movie theatre .. and a bowling alley and a Cirque du Soleil show ....

The food is DEFINITELY better in DisSpring vs. WS but, IMO, thats about it. I don't care to watch movies on my Disney vacation or bowl or see Cirq. There are more "exotic" shops but I've got better shops at home or online where I can search for deals and not pay a premium. WS is in a park, after you eat you can go do other stuff. I also don't think people are paying for a hopper pass just to go eat at Epcot at night.
 
I told my friend that as long as they keep selling multi day tickets and annual passes, the crowds will continue to be a problem. I really think that if EVERYONE had to buy a 1 day ticket, every time, that is the ONLY way you will see lower crowds.

That would be our breaking point. We already pay $3,300 for 10-day base tickets. Paying $8,000 for just tickets would be too much. And cutting down to 4 days to keep costs the same would not be worth the time/cost of the rest of the trip. Four days of driving just for 4 days in the park? No thanks.

However, I do think they have already priced a lot of non-locals out of APs. If they really wanted to reduce crowds they would take away the AP discount for locals and make them spend $750pp.
 

Oh, that stupidity?

That's lipstick on a pig...a hoax...charging more for the same old stuff
The folks here who have tried it positively glow about it. Non-fans vociferously object and I definitely don't relate to the value per hour/attraction compared to my typical multi-day vacation where my average daily rate is $40ish I think. HOWEVER I don't know Disney's calculus, but the lack of posted June hours with any MK closing times past 10pm has me very concerned that that particular pig better buy some more lipstick because it has more party dates coming!
 
But isn't Toy Story land the one being built now and Star Wars land mostly waiting in the wings? We see cuts already on Toy Story land...we may just not see the coming cuts yet to Star Wars (since it's so early)...and after this earnings report and another likely bad one this summer (gonna call it now with all the delays still happening), and with the same management who's done it time and time again...I gotta go with LOL's cynicism being more likely at this point...

Mmmm...huh...

You're driving down the street of truth here...

No offense to my esteemed friend here...but the evidence is to be completely skeptical...it's not even skepticism if they have made it their standard operating procedure. And they have.
 
The folks here who have tried it positively glow about it. Non-fans vociferously object and I definitely don't relate to the value per hour/attraction compared to my typical multi-day vacation where my average daily rate is $40ish I think. HOWEVER I don't know Disney's calculus, but the lack of posted June hours with any MK closing times past 10pm has me very concerned that that particular pig better buy some more lipstick because it has more party dates coming!

Nancy Reagan had a saying for this...

To be fair - "glowing reviews" all say the same thing: it's so nice without the crowds.

They are shaving hours off a normal park day based on capacity and charging for it.

Right...older inventory at $50 an hour...a recognition of what they have failed to do for a long time: have proper capacity for increasing crowd levels.

I mean...if you put the bar on the ground, you have no possibility other than to come in over expectations.
 
/
But isn't Toy Story land the one being built now and Star Wars land mostly waiting in the wings? We see cuts already on Toy Story land...we may just not see the coming cuts yet to Star Wars (since it's so early)...and after this earnings report and another likely bad one this summer (gonna call it now with all the delays still happening), and with the same management who's done it time and time again...I gotta go with LOL's cynicism being more likely at this point...
Neither land is being built yet they are still working on demo. Toy story will be done first but both will be worked on simultaneously. From what I've seen they want to keep Star Wars as great as possible without any cuts and if they need to cut they'll do it elsewhere. The earnings report wasn't bad it just didn't meet the crazy expectations analysts have been setting. I think the summer report won't be much worse but really not any better either.
 
Neither land is being built yet they are still working on demo. Toy story will be done first but both will be worked on simultaneously. From what I've seen they want to keep Star Wars as great as possible without any cuts and if they need to cut they'll do it elsewhere. The earnings report wasn't bad it just didn't meet the crazy expectations analysts have been setting. I think the summer report won't be much worse but really not any better either.

You're assuming Star Wars is gonna be "great"...and even that is a huge leap of faith...
 
You're assuming Star Wars is gonna be "great"...and even that is a huge leap of faith...
I'm sorry but I'm not going to be negative about everything Disney is doing. Disney still can do great things even if they aren't on time or on budget. Avatar and shanghai's pirates for example. I don't see any reason to believe that Star Wars land won't be an incredible immersive experience that will draw crowds like nothing before it. It's my opinion and you can agree or disagree but I'm sticking too it.
 
I'm sorry but I'm not going to be negative about everything Disney is doing. Disney still can do great things even if they aren't on time or on budget. Avatar and shanghai's pirates for example. I don't see any reason to believe that Star Wars land won't be an incredible immersive experience that will draw crowds like nothing before it. It's my opinion and you can agree or disagree but I'm sticking too it.

It's not negativity...it's track record.

When is the last time that Disney devoted the time, energy, dedication and budget to do something incredible in Orlando?

It was honestly before your time...

That doesn't mean they can't or won't...they may be doing it right at this moment. But track record has a completely justifiable skeptical approach attached to it.
 
This is really it in a nutshell. People will point to Pandora and Star Wars/Toy Story expansions and say "see, Disney IS doing something" - but the problem is they waited far too long to get the ball rolling. Epcot has fewer attractions now than when we started going 15 years ago. I believe the same is true for DHS. And while AK has added a headliner (one that I love btw) it still never had enough going on to keep people from rope drop thru dinner. At least people used to stay until the parade in late afternoon, but that carrot's long gone now. So what happens is everyone's all in on MK for the majority of their park days. We used to schedule 2 1/2 days of a weeklong trip for Epcot, now it's one day or one and a half days tops. We dearly love AK bit we're done before dinner and if we have park hoppers are looking for something more for the day. And we've never set aside more than a whole day for DHS and now we just skip it. this is why there's a 'capacity' problem. They fill the rooms on property and then on any given day most of those people are in MK instead of distributed among the four parks. Sure, when the new stuff is completed this will be alleviated but for the next few years while it's still under construction their reputation is going to take a significant hit from the 'OMG the crowds/waits/prices' reviews online.

TL/DR: Disney has done too little, too late, and too slowly.

One of the things that really highlight it for me that Epcot, DHS and AK are poor value is that when I'm booking my FP I feel like I'm wasting them if I don't use them at MK. It is hard to get three worth while FP at the other three parks.
 
It's not negativity...it's track record.

When is the last time that Disney devoted the time, energy, dedication and budget to do something incredible in Orlando?

It was honestly before your time...

That doesn't mean they can't or won't...they may be doing it right at this moment. But track record has a completely justifiable skeptical approach attached to it.
I don't deny that track record but from what I'm seeing from avatar so far I think that will be when this track record changes. Star Wars will only add to that.
 
One of the things that really highlight it for me that Epcot, DHS and AK are poor value is that when I'm booking my FP I feel like I'm wasting them if I don't use them at MK. It is hard to get three worth while FP at the other three parks.

Bingo...excellent

I find fastpass selection at epcot and studios to be an incredibly depressing experience...

And now that's 60 days in advance
 
I don't deny that track record but from what I'm seeing from avatar so far I think that will be when this track record changes. Star Wars will only add to that.

Avatar will be a measuring stick...it has to be great with IP that nobody - frankly - gives a damn about.

That could be a major step in the right direction.

The last undertaking they have completed with Disney style dedication in Orlando was animal kingdom lodge...before that blizzard beach.

I kid ye not.
 
The last undertaking they have completed with Disney style dedication in Orlando was animal kingdom lodge...before that blizzard beach.
I would say it was TSMM. That is a well engineered Disney-worthy attraction. Before that, Everest (when the Yeti worked, but we know how that story ended). And before that, Tower of Terror. That's three things in almost 20 years.
 
Avatar will be a measuring stick...it has to be great with IP that nobody - frankly - gives a damn about.

That could be a major step in the right direction.

The last undertaking they have completed with Disney style dedication in Orlando was animal kingdom lodge...before that blizzard beach.

I kid ye not.
I truly believe avatar will be that change in the right direction everything I've seen so far leads me to believe that especially the mountains, and the glimpse at the animatronic.
 
I would say it was TSMM. That is a well engineered Disney-worthy attraction. Before that, Everest (when the Yeti worked, but we know how that story ended). And before that, Tower of Terror. That's three things in almost 20 years.
I'm not so sure on TSMM. While I do enjoy it and ride it every trip it's a screen based ride that really is a pluses version of Space ranger spin. Nothing there seems like over the top engineering to me. Tower of terror now that includes great engineering, as well as Everest with the yeti.
 
I would say it was TSMM. That is a well engineered Disney-worthy attraction. Before that, Everest (when the Yeti worked, but we know how that story ended). And before that, Tower of Terror. That's three things in almost 20 years.

Midway mania is very elaborate tank like contraptions in a very simplistic ride setup.

I like that they repurposed the space...but just like Dopey's dipper in MK...the line isn't reflective of the quality.

Everest had a chance - they failed.

And tower was the last great system designed for wdw...if we're honest.
 
I'm not so sure on TSMM. While I do enjoy it and ride it every trip it's a screen based ride that really is a pluses version of Space ranger spin. Nothing there seems like over the top engineering to me.

Midway mania is very elaborate tank like contraptions in a very simplistic ride setup.

I like that they repurposed the space...but just like Dopey's dipper in MK...the line isn't reflective of the quality.
I won't fight too hard for TSMM. But where I was coming from is that it seems to be a pretty impressive bit of technology that impresses the pre-teen crowd even if adult engineers are unimpressed. The young demographic deserved something better than spinning elephants, dinosaurs and carpets.
 














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