Atheism in decline? (debate likely)

[phillybeth]

I agree to a point. I think evolution should be taught for what it is proven to be so far. It is the tool by which organisms adapt to their surroundings over time. We shouldn't throw it out completely. But to teach it as the be-all, end-all of creation is stretching the data much to thin.

You aren't saying that evolution has no value are you?

But if there is intelligent design, why would they have to adapt at all? Why wouldn't their creator design them perfectly for their niche?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

jenfur I would appreciate an answer to my question...



Just wanted to add the question.....

If homosexuals are not legally allowed to get married how can their morals be faulted any more than a heterosexual's?

I don't think you'll get an answer.

There is no legal basis. Doesn't mean we have to agree with it--but it pretty much deflates the legal stance of the faith base groups in preventing the change of the legal definition of marriage (or commitment). Doesn't mean our country has gone in the moral toilet--just means they are doing their best for a strict interpretation of the constitution and leaving the strict interpretation of the bible to the religions/individual.

 

[phillybeth]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, also known as the Law of Entropy, states that every system left to its own devices will always move from a condition of order to disorder.

The first thing I learned in biochemistry class (taught by a Christian Brother BTW) is that life is the opposite of entropy, that every living organism lives in defiance of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics until they die.

We still do not know how life was created on Earth. Perhaps it was just random floating molecules coming together, perhaps it was a Divine spark, maybe it was Q (for you trekkies out there). However, once that life WAS created, we do know, within the limits of current scientific knowledge, how it evolved.

 

[Flyfly_Eclipse]

I was taught evolution in my 10th grade biology class. I believe creatures adapt to situations and enivornments, but do not believe it was the origin of life. I agree to the comment that says creatism and evolution may be intertwined to make the end result.

I was slightly offended by responses here...while I will *not* say creatism is fact...for it is just what I believe with all of my heart and soul... The fact you laugh at the OP's beliefs (despite that she is claiming it's fact, and you don't agree), offends me in that I agree with her to a point.

Those who believe in a higher power and not less educated in science...they just have heard the facts, and have decided that their faith is strong enough to see past them to reveal the Truth (in our opinion).

 

[simpilotswife]

I don't think you'll get an answer.

There is no legal basis. Doesn't mean we have to agree with it--but it pretty much deflates the legal stance of the faith base groups in preventing the change of the legal definition of marriage (or commitment). Doesn't mean our country has gone in the moral toilet--just means they are doing their best for a strict interpretation of the constitution and leaving the strict interpretation of the bible to the religions/individual.

I agree Lisa but then why not just say that instead of ignoring the question? She is the one who brought it up as a complaint about being liberal. I'd like to see her respond to it.

 

[Flyfly_Eclipse]

But if there is intelligent design, why would they have to adapt at all? Why wouldn't their creator design them perfectly for their niche?

Society and environments change. Look how differently we live from a century ago. We ourselves have adapted to our new lifestyles... likewise, other circumstances have caused animals to need to adapt in order to survive. As the world advances, so we those who live in it...but at least the Creator allowed for such ability.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree Lisa but then why not just say that instead of ignoring the question? She is the one who brought it up as a complaint about being liberal. I'd like to see her respond to it.

I guess I'll just keep my 2 cents to myself then.

 

[simpilotswife]

I guess I'll just keep my 2 cents to myself then.

Your choice.

 

[Caradana]

It might be on the decline, honestly, but I don't think for the reasons you cite. When the towers fall and the mudslides quake, and the wars refuse to end, and there is fear for the youngest generation ... people look to a God for comfort.

 

[DisDuck]

Whenever I hear of 'intelligent design' I think of the Monolith from 2001-Space Odessey. If 'intelligent design' not religion based then who was the designer 'little green people'?

While there are gaps in the path of evolution there is enough physical evidence to support species developing into other species. It is very much accepted today, in paleontology, that birds are descended from a particular branch of dinosaurs. That is macro-evolution not micro-evolution.

If you are going to quote physics to support 'entropy' theory then also use it as evidence of an earth 4.5 billion years old (+/-). The geological evidence supports this earth not the 'young' earth age. Radioactive decay is predictable and certain isotopes have specific half-lifes that can support the geological age of the earth.

Tell me where did Dinosaurs come from? If there was intelligent design behind them how come no mention in the bible. Why does 'intelligent design' or any other theory other than evolution concentrate on Human development? Is it because in other species there is overwhelming evidence to support evolution, so it is ignored?

 

[minniepumpernickel]

First of Churchill does not represent the majority of liberals beliefs. I would definitely put him out there on the fringe, way out there.

I actually think that society is progressively moving toward atheism. I feel like the beliefs of the religious right are on the fringe. I do not encounter many in my everyday life. If they are standing on the street corner screaming that the world is ending anyday now, most people just stare straight ahead, and keep on walking!

 

[tlgoblue]

I actually think that society is progressively moving toward atheism. I feel like the beliefs of the religious right are on the fringe. I do not encounter many in my everyday life. If they are standing on the street corner screaming that the world is ending anyday now, most people just stare straight ahead, and keep on walking!

I would have to disagree with you on this one, at least in my neighborhood. It is interesting how narrowminded people are, seeing only what suits them. Folks here equate atheists with paganism and then make the "logical" leap to Satanism. When one points to the fact that atheists tend toward pacifism, something that the big 3 for the most part do not, it is explained away as either having no backbone, or a rouse to get converts. Honestly, my poor kids are bombarded daily by our Church going Christian community with Anti-Semetic, Homophobic, Pro-life rhetoric. Occasionally, I see it influencing them, and it frightened me so much we decided to move. (not for that sole reason, but it did go into the "pro" column for reasons to move.)

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I would have to disagree with you on this one, at least in my neighborhood. It is interesting how narrowminded people are, seeing only what suits them. Folks here equate atheists with paganism and then make the "logical" leap to Satanism. When one points to the fact that atheists tend toward pacifism, something that the big 3 for the most part do not, it is explained away as either having no backbone, or a rouse to get converts. Honestly, my poor kids are bombarded daily by our Church going Christian community with Anti-Semetic, Homophobic, Pro-life rhetoric. Occasionally, I see it influencing them, and it frightened me so much we decided to move. (not for that sole reason, but it did go into the "pro" column for reasons to move.)

I don't mean to be rude, but what state did you live in? I'm going to go put it on the thread where we are supposed to post where we don't want to live, LOL!

 

[mom2rb]

I would have to disagree with you on this one, at least in my neighborhood. It is interesting how narrowminded people are, seeing only what suits them. Folks here equate atheists with paganism and then make the "logical" leap to Satanism. When one points to the fact that atheists tend toward pacifism, something that the big 3 for the most part do not, it is explained away as either having no backbone, or a rouse to get converts. Honestly, my poor kids are bombarded daily by our Church going Christian community with Anti-Semetic, Homophobic, Pro-life rhetoric. Occasionally, I see it influencing them, and it frightened me so much we decided to move. (not for that sole reason, but it did go into the "pro" column for reasons to move.)

We are trying to move for the same reason. I don't like people bombarding my children with religion.

 

[Bichon Barb]

At the moment, I see anything that ...kers.com/liberal/proudchristianleft.jpg[/IMG]

 

[wvrevy]

"Intelligent Design" is nothing more than a way of professing ignorance. "I don't know how this was done, so someone smarter than all of us must have done it." They couch it in scientific language, but it's nothing more than standard creationism at it's core, and, with apologies to the OP, there is NO evidence to support it. Zip, nada, none.

These people actually try to use the scientific method against evolution, by claiming that, because theories shift as new facts are revealed, that means that none of it can be "The Truth". Listen closely: THAT IS WHAT RATIONAL PEOPLE DO!!! The take a position that fits current data, and when new data is found, they adapt there position. The do not, as someone on this thread stated they do as a religious person, ignore inconvenient facts that go against their beliefs. We leave that to the irrational religious side of the debate.

 

[wvrevy]

I just wanted to say, I think most people would agree that Ward Churchill is just as much of a whack job as Jerry Falwell.

Nah...Churchill stated his opinion, and unpopular as it was, he actually does have reasons for stating what he did (though I don't, personally, agree with them). Falwell is just a nutjob that tries to make people believe that god is just as small minded and hateful as he is.

 

[tlgoblue]

I don't mean to be rude, but what state did you live in? I'm going to go put it on the thread where we are supposed to post where we don't want to live, LOL!

I am packing my bags today and leaving lovely little Indiana for the west coast on Friday.
I really don't mean to offend my neighbors here, and they have good qualities to be sure, but again, just too focused on what works for them as a solution for all the World's problems. Religion is institutionalised here, even through the schools, and that is what scares me. DS has a teacher who's DH is a Reverand at one of our over 300 Churches (Population 160,000), and feels it not only appropriate, but neccessary to insert her religious beliefs into her lesson plan by, well, at the moment, only allowing a "persuasive speech", a requirement for passing her course, to only include subject matter that comforms to the "subjects that are acceptable to me in my own happy version of the world." Yes that is a quote. Quess what the subjects so far have been about? Homosexual marriage, Pro-life/Pro-Choice, the teaching of evolution in schools. DS's topic is Hybrid verses conventional gasoline powered cars. She said it's a pretty dull subject in her opinion, but OK. I am so glad he won't have her as a teacher anymore. (I am not one to disrespect teachers and ALWAYS give them the right to teach how they want, but this one is off the wall)

 

[Bichon Barb]

Nah...Churchill stated his opinion, and unpopular as it was, he actually does have reasons for stating what he did (though I don't, personally, agree with them). Falwell is just a nutjob that tries to make people believe that god is just as small minded and hateful as he is.

This is true. Churchill just stated one opinion which the public didn't like. Falwell is a career whack job.

 

[wvrevy]

I am packing my bags today and leaving lovely little Indiana for the west coast on Friday.
I really don't mean to offend my neighbors here, and they have good qualities to be sure, but again, just too focused on what works for them as a solution for all the World's problems. Religion is institutionalised here, even through the schools, and that is what scares me. DS has a teacher who's DH is a Reverand at one of our over 300 Churches (Population 160,000), and feels it not only appropriate, but neccessary to insert her religious beliefs into her lesson plan by, well, at the moment, only allowing a "persuasive speech", a requirement for passing her course, to only include subject matter that comforms to the "subjects that are acceptable to me in my own happy version of the world." Yes that is a quote. Quess what the subjects so far have been about? Homosexual marriage, Pro-life/Pro-Choice, the teaching of evolution in schools. DS's topic is Hybrid verses conventional gasoline powered cars. She said it's a pretty dull subject in her opinion, but OK. I am so glad he won't have her as a teacher anymore. (I am not one to disrespect teachers and ALWAYS give them the right to teach how they want, but this one is off the wall)

Wow Good for you for getting your son away from that person ! If DD ever has a teacher like that, I'm not sure what I'll do...Needless to say, it'll probably be a little more direct