At the park now, FP+ lines are snaking through the park

[BuckeyeBama]

Easy how? re-install a whole new set of Mickeys for every size and shape? Increasing the range of the RFID won't work- it would just start recognizing every MB within 10 feet, get confused and shut down. That's why they set it up like this in the first place and everyone has to contort. If they'd stuck with cards, you'd be on to something, but they didn't. Couple that with the complexity and lag time on the back-end, and we are where we are.....

This is how RFID security works across this country, and if they have to go back to cards until they can figure out how to get enough range from a "magic" band, then that is an easy fix. EASY.

Readers do not pick up every card within 10 feet, but they can pick up a card within 6 inches. Easily. Without swapping out the scanners.

 

[JessicaKnits]

I wonder if the increase in lines isn't a result of Disney allowing more Fastpasses per time slot, as much as it is a result of an increased awareness that FastPass in fact exists. I was absolutely amazed how many people had no idea what a Fastpass was on my first few trips.

Disney is marketing the heck out of this new system, and I wonder how many people as a result are now using FastPass plus?

This will be my third time staying on site, and I don't ever recall getting a reminder about using FastPass when I got to the park. This trip (our first with FastPass+, our last trip was March of 2012 and overlapped the enforcement of Fastpass return times) we got our little USB port, two mailed reminders with the Fastpass+ date, and multiple email reminders.

Also, I see A LOT of people saying that they should reduce the number of fastpass slots for shorter lines. Are you the same ones that want the limit increased from three? We can't have it both ways.

I personally, am really displeased with the limit of three and am doing my best to keep an open mind about it. We always pulled at least twice that many fastpass during our trips. Regardless, we are going this Saturday and are at the point where there is no turning back.

 

[Dallas_Lady]

Here's an idea...

Why not have some sort of display screen at every FP+ scanner? One person scans their band and on the screen appears their FP time plus the number of people linked to them. The CM does a quick verification and sends everyone through, no need to scan 4 people. Likewise, with the time right there on the screen there are no disputes and the CM has the ability to make a judgment call if a person is a few minutes outside their window.

 

[clsteve]

This is how RFID security works across this country, and if they have to go back to cards until they can figure out how to get enough range from a "magic" band, then that is an easy fix. EASY.

Readers do not pick up every card within 10 feet, but they can pick up a card within 6 inches. Easily. Without swapping out the scanners.

Ah, but they would lose their true end game- the long range transmitter in the MB, wouldn't they?

It's easy to throw out EASY, isn't it....?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Ah, but they would lose their true end game- the long range transmitter in the MB, wouldn't they?

It's easy to throw out EASY, isn't it....?

Well, we don't know what we don't know. Are you sure that the two are connected?

 

[sets14]

Here's an idea...

Why not have some sort of display screen at every FP+ scanner? One person scans their band and on the screen appears their FP time plus the number of people linked to them. The CM does a quick verification and sends everyone through, no need to scan 4 people. Likewise, with the time right there on the screen there are no disputes and the CM has the ability to make a judgment call if a person is a few minutes outside their window.

They do have a screen that pulls up your info when you scan. As for scanning one per party- what's to stop the party from switching all aroundlying ding to the use of way more than 3 fastpasses per person? If there is a limit, as there is now, you have to verify each one. Or it would mean that all members must have the same FP+ which wouldn't work for most families.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Easy how? re-install a whole new set of Mickeys for every size and shape? Increasing the range of the RFID won't work- it would just start recognizing every MB within 10 feet, get confused and shut down. That's why they set it up like this in the first place and everyone has to contort. If they'd stuck with cards, you'd be on to something, but they didn't. Couple that with the complexity and lag time on the back-end, and we are where we are.....

But they do still have cards. They've said all along cards would be an option for anyone who didn't want a MB. There's no reason they can't use the cards as the primary RFID device while they work on MBs. I understand that MBs give them a spending increase b/c people don't have to reach for their wallet, as well as the long range data mining, but it seems it would be to their benefit to figure out something here.

 

[Q-man]

Except FP lines haven't typically looked like this in the past, even on a holiday weekend.

We experienced similar FP lines Thanksgiving week. The Mickey readers were the issue. The SM FP line was all the way under the TA track but once we scanned our bans(15min) we walked for 5 mins to the SM loading area and got on the second 'ship' to load after getting down there. We experienced the same deal at both EE and BTM.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

The first is one of the biggest and most repeated fallacies regarding Legacy FP, you DID NOT HAVE TO RUN .... we toured the parks casually, still pulled 6+ FPs in a day, without having a runner.

Not once ever did my husband or I run across the park for a fast pass (nor did we walk solely for that purpose). we picked up fast passes as a normal part of our touring routine. On mornings where we started out at Fantasyland and then moved on to Storybook Circus, we would grab a FP for Space Moutain on our way over to Frontierland or Adventureland. While on our way to Thunder Mountain, we would grab a FP for Splash Mountain, or vice versa. There was never a point where one of us felt it necessary to go across the park to grab a fast pass and then join the family back where we originally started. And, this touring strategy worked out well for us. We were always able to accomplish everything we wanted to do at Magic Kingdom in one day with no more than a 20 minute wait as long as we arrived at rope drop.

 

[clsteve]

Well, we don't know what we don't know. Are you sure that the two are connected?

Of course-- both short and long range go back to you and your account, both as a Point of Sale and from a Customer Relationship Management perspective. You are your MB.

They can't just turn around now and start issuing KTTW's and MB's again. Think of the confusion and the additional expense when the Ops budgets across TDO are already consuming way more than planned for FY14.

Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd phased this whole approach instead of doing it all at once? I.e., get the infrastructure (like MB's and everything supporting them) solid before moving on to FP's? Many ways they could have done that. And I'm sure many insiders lobbied hard for that (who may not now be with them ) When you do everything at once, finding where the true issue is becomes incredibly difficult- by a factor with many zeros behind it.

And I don't mean to hit you too hard on the EASY thing. It's just not that easy. They're in a tough spot with the busy season looming over them and they're under the gun. They've exhausted the easy options.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Of course-- both short and long range go back to you and your account, both as a Point of Sale and from a Customer Relationship Management perspective. You are your MB.

They can't just turn around now and start issuing KTTW's and MB's again. Think of the confusion and the additional expense when the Ops budgets across TDO are already consuming way more than planned for FY14.

Wouldn't it have been nice if they'd phased this whole approach instead of doing it all at once? I.e., get the infrastructure (like MB's and everything supporting them) solid before moving on to FP's? Many ways they could have done that. And I'm sure many insiders lobbied hard for that (who may not now be with them ) When you do everything at once, finding where the true issue is becomes incredibly difficult- by a factor with many zeros behind it.

And I don't mean to hit you too hard on the EASY thing. It's just not that easy. They're in a tough spot with the busy season looming over them and they're under the gun. They've exhausted the easy options.

Thanks for that, but I have an additional question. If the KTTW cards had all of the same data associated on the linked account, and they worked with barely a tap on any of the scanners, why can't the magic bands work with barely a tap on the same scanners? Would they lose something with respect the long range "tracking" if they made this possible.

Thanks for your patience. I am just woefully ignorant on this subject.

 

[clsteve]

But they do still have cards. They've said all along cards would be an option for anyone who didn't want a MB. There's no reason they can't use the cards as the primary RFID device while they work on MBs. I understand that MBs give them a spending increase b/c people don't have to reach for their wallet, as well as the long range data mining, but it seems it would be to their benefit to figure out something here.

If they do- it's admitting a big error in their plan, for one thing. I would love to see it, but it's a "heads will roll" kinda thing.

Secondly, phasing out the old system is a BIG part of the costs savings. The Ops budget is under serious constraints with MM+, the duplication in staffing effort- in Park and especially at the Resorts, problem resolution (GS and IT), etc., caused by going back to a parallel method, would be incredibly difficult.

CM stress levels have to be at the very top of their worry list. So, it seems like "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead..."

 

[clsteve]

Thanks for that, but I have an additional question. If the KTTW cards had all of the same data associated on the linked account, and they worked with barely a tap on any of the scanners, why can't the magic bands work with barely a tap on the same scanners? Would they lose something with respect the long range "tracking" if they made this possible.

Thanks for your patience. I am just woefully ignorant on this subject.

Well, for starters, there's a big thick piece of rubber/synthetic material over the transmitter. And, there's not a Mom or Dad with a lanyard handing the card/band to a CM to scan - little Sally or Johnny has to get it down from his shoulder and wipe the Mickey Bar juice off of it before he gets it up to the scanner. Incredibly bad ergonomics.

And, you can't discount the aspect of the quality of the scanner/transmitter TDO bought in bulk for these things. I've seen the exact thing happen in other industries- based on saving a penny or 2.

So many things that can go wrong - and, when you do every part of the implementation at once, debugging the issue is so much more difficult

 

[Tbiafore]

This new system hasn't changed how many riders a ride can handle in an hour (no matter what ratio of standby:FP)...FP+ doesn't add capacity to rides.

Its still differant and the historical data is not "copy and paste" to FP+.

1. Handing a card to someone is not the same as trying to use your band if there are technical issues involved.

2. The amount of tickets handed out with the old system that are no shows will not be the exact number of people that sign up weeks or month ahead of time and dont show up.

3. This doesnt even factor in the complication of people making changes to their picks (which you dont with the FP- system).

And my original point still stands....

 

[Tbiafore]

The first is one of the biggest and most repeated fallacies regarding Legacy FP, you DID NOT HAVE TO RUN .... we toured the parks casually, still pulled 6+ FPs in a day, without having a runner.
....

I Think some people use that as a "general term". But for us its factual. If thats how you handle, it, so be it. Its not a fallacies just because you dont have someone "run" to get fast passes. We do, and for many reasons that I dont need to bore everyone on this forum over.

 

[Q-man]

I wonder how much having FP+ reservations has changed how people tour. We had them Thanksgiving week before the e-ticket rationing. All the headliners scheduled mid afternoon. I was a cool calm dad in the morning because making RD didn't matter in the way it used to as we didn't need to race the clock for e-ticket FPs. We would have been out of the park for the day before any of the FP+ times I scheduled that week under the old system. As we would have been at RD and working to pull FPs as quick as possible and stay ahead of the crowds. I had the e-tickets reserved already and had no concern of long lines or FP return windows hours out when the masses arrived. I always felt the legacy FP system encouraged our early morning and gone by early afternoon type touring as it helped Disney by reducing the peak time crowds.

Are the RD types on MDE the first day FP+ is open and snapping up times much later than they would have under the old system? We would have done both TSM and RR both before noon under the old system and not had reserved slots in the afternoon. Are non planning obsessed people seeing only 9am FP+ slots by the time they get to it and don't bother or choose to FP+ what is normally walk on?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I wonder how much having FP+ reservations has changed how people tour.

It dramatically changed how we toured in January. It was, far and away, the most relaxing WDW vacation that we have ever experienced.

 

[magicbob]

At the park now, FP+ lines are snaking through the park
Hand our jungle cruise FP+ return time and the line was snaked to magics carpets, was told by multiple CMs there was nothing they could do, called it and they said sorry too bad. We could change our FP+ but hello we actually planned per their system and it simply doesn't work.

BTMR has FP+ line snaked paste Briar Patch.

At guest relations. No solution.

This is a test. This is only a test. If this had been an actual line, you would have been instructed to report to the nearest FP+ kiosk.

I can agree with a lot of DIS-ers who say they don't want to pay to be a guinea pig...that's completely fair. But to dismiss a complete system that, as of now, is in its infancy and will probably look completely different in 1-2 years time, is very hasty IMO.

But, here's the thing... I don't see how anyone can judge this (or any) system a success based on the hope that it might function ideally in the future. As many here have been fond of saying... we don't know what the "final product" will look like. Disney could make lots of changes and make it fantastic. If they do, then the critics will get on board with it. But we can only judge what the product ACTUALLY IS (testing or not). Right now, there are lots of issues that might or MIGHT NOT get fixed in the future. The "test" could end tomorrow and things could remain as they are in perpetuity.

And if it DOES look "completely different in 1-2 years time" wouldn't that be kind of a tacet admission that it's a huge failure now? I mean, if it was a success, the final product should not be "completely different." That would indicate that nothing they are doing now works or else they would have kept some of it intact.

Islands of Adventure, Universal, and Discovery Cove are all ranked higher than WDW at that review site. I looked for "shoveling snow back home" for a reference point but I didn't see it.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g34515-Activities-c46-Orlando_Florida.html

I think it's located just behind the magic of FP+. You have to look real hard to find it...

But ranked slightly ahead of being set on fire!

 

[bcrook]

I wonder if Disney seriously underestimated the FP+ utilization rate during a crowded time, and didn't reduce the number of FP slots accordingly. Their calculations must factor in a certain number of no-shows; if a family has 3 FPs during a slower period, they might not see the point in interrupting whatever they're doing to keep their "reservations," or they might leave the park with the tired kids like PP mentioned, missing their later FPs. So there might be an overall 80% redemption rate (completely made-up number.) But on a crowded day, seeing the SB lines, not getting onto many rides quickly, people may be much more likely to use their FPs, maybe up to 90-95% (again made-up numbers) putting an additional 10-15% in the FP lines that they didn't anticipate. Suddenly a ride that can accommodate 1000 FP users/hour, that released 1250 slots/hour, is seeing 1125-1175 people show up in the FP line. That's a problem. If so, Disney needs to rewrite their algorithms to take into account different behaviors for different crowd levels. And if the utilization rate goes up, the total number of FP slots released has to go down...

That is a new angle. I like that.

If it is the case, Disney will be able to fine tune that a little.

 

[mom2rtk]

I wonder if Disney seriously underestimated the FP+ utilization rate during a crowded time, and didn't reduce the number of FP slots accordingly. Their calculations must factor in a certain number of no-shows; if a family has 3 FPs during a slower period, they might not see the point in interrupting whatever they're doing to keep their "reservations," or they might leave the park with the tired kids like PP mentioned, missing their later FPs. So there might be an overall 80% redemption rate (completely made-up number.) But on a crowded day, seeing the SB lines, not getting onto many rides quickly, people may be much more likely to use their FPs, maybe up to 90-95% (again made-up numbers) putting an additional 10-15% in the FP lines that they didn't anticipate. Suddenly a ride that can accommodate 1000 FP users/hour, that released 1250 slots/hour, is seeing 1125-1175 people show up in the FP line. That's a problem. If so, Disney needs to rewrite their algorithms to take into account different behaviors for different crowd levels. And if the utilization rate goes up, the total number of FP slots released has to go down...

I think that's a very valid point. It will definitely help when they adjust based on this experience. It's just unfortunate that means they will need to issue fewer slots to begin with.