Armanda Knox guilty---- again

Irrefutable evidence isn't even our standard .

The document explain the decision and if you read them you'll better understand it's not the story we've been fed.
There are reasons they came to the conclusions they did and it's not just that she behaved oddly.

Yes, there are questions and many unanswered things but this idea that she's just being completely railroaded by an unjust Italian court system is bs. Her family hired a PR firm within days of her being arrested, days. They carefully spun this story. That's the job they were hired for. It's very difficult to find information against Amanda unless you read the actual documents.

I guess I should rephrase the irrefutable to without a reasonable doubt. That is what I meant. They have nothing concrete.

I don't fault them that. It was her dad who did it and they were being subjected to a huge media circus. Their daughter was being called a satanist and a sexual deviant. The headlines running in Italy and other countries were disgusting. I can't blame them for turning to a professional. They didn't do it because they thought she was guilty and needed to cover it up.

I read quite a bit of published details on anti Amanda websites and as I have stated, she acted wrong. I do believe she lied. She may have walked into the house and saw the scene freaked out and didn't know what to do. She then got scared b/c it was her home and lied. She was being harassed(and yes this I truly believe) by the Italian police and she started lying which was absolutely wrong, but IMO she paid for this obstruction of justice with 4 years. I believe she is the cause of some obstruction and did wrong, I still just don't believe it included the murder. There still would be DNA, you still cannot only remove the DNA of 2 and not 1.
 
I guess I should rephrase the irrefutable to without a reasonable doubt. That is what I meant. They have nothing concrete.

I don't fault them that. It was her dad who did it and they were being subjected to a huge media circus. Their daughter was being called a satanist and a sexual deviant. The headlines running in Italy and other countries were disgusting. I can't blame them for turning to a professional. They didn't do it because they thought she was guilty and needed to cover it up.

I read quite a bit of published details on anti Amanda websites and as I have stated, she acted wrong. I do believe she lied. She may have walked into the house and saw the scene freaked out and didn't know what to do. She then got scared b/c it was her home and lied. She was being harassed(and yes this I truly believe) by the Italian police and she started lying which was absolutely wrong, but IMO she paid for this obstruction of justice with 4 years. I believe she is the cause of some obstruction and did wrong, I still just don't believe it included the murder. There still would be DNA, you still cannot only remove the DNA of 2 and not 1.

No. By all accounts the bolded is completely the opposite of what happened.
In fact, she told the first police to arrive ( they just happened to arrive because they were investigating the found cell phones, not the police called because of the burglary) that Meredith's lock room was no cause for concern...she always locked her door, even to take a shower. It wasn't until another roommate arrived and was very concerned about the locked bedroom door that there was worry over it being more than a break in. According to that roommate, Meredith had only locked her bedroom once and that was when she left to visit home for a few days.
 
sunshinehighway -- I really thank you for taking the time to state your point of view regarding this case. I can not honestly say you have changed my mind, but it has been a very informative discussion, and it would not surprise me in the least if you have influenced some lurkers. I have enjoyed reading a mostly civilized discussion of the case, a rare treat on the Dis or any board!!
 
sunshinehighway -- I really thank you for taking the time to state your point of view regarding this case. I can not honestly say you have changed my mind, but it has been a very informative discussion, and it would not surprise me in the least if you have influenced some lurkers. I have enjoyed reading a mostly civilized discussion of the case, a rare treat on the Dis or any board!!

Thanks.

The case is murky and I can see why people think the ruling was wrong but the idea that they have absolutely no case and just made the whole thing up is far from true.
You just don't hear much about what they do have against her because she had spin control from the beginning.
Notice you hear/read lots about the bra clasp and knife DNA but little about the woman's footprint (Amanda's size) in Meredith's room or Meredith's blood and Amanda's DNA in Filomena's room (the room with the broken window which was ransacked).
You have Guede's footprints leading straight out the door from Meredith's room so what is her blood doing in Filomena's room?
Meredith's room was also locked, which needed to be done with a key. Guede's footprints don't account for him turning to lock the door. His fingerprints nor any blood were on Meredith's door handle.

There's more too. Together it all paints a picture. Now you might not see it the way the Italian prosecutor did but it's still there
 

“CSI technique leads Italian police to bloody footprint in Foxy Knoxy’s bedroom,” Britain’s sleazy Daily Mail once claimed. Until recently, even Wikipedia insisted that police had found bloody, luminol-revealed footprints in the “house of horrors.” Prosecutors claimed the prints were “compatible” with the feet of U.S. college student Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, the ex-lovers convicted of the murder of Meredith Kercher. Their alleged co-conspirator, petty burglar Rudy Guede, left bloody shoeprints from the victim’s bedroom to the front door.

Yet investigators had tested the luminol footprints for blood and found them lacking, a truth carefully hidden from December 17, 2007 (when they were collected) until September 2009, when defense expert Sarah Gino outed the negative test during the trial that led to Knox and Sollecito’s conviction. Even now “bloody footprints” are the Knox case’s most persistent urban legend.

“Luminol identified nine prints in the cottage, but none were derived from blood,” notes Oggi investigative reporter Maria D’Alia in The Crime of Perugia: The Other Truth, a refreshingly fact-based book on the Knox case.

“Tetramethylbenzidine, the test that reveals blood, gave negative results,” she continues. “Also, in this case, the court has affirmed that this outcome arrived from the prints in question. Tetramethylbenzidine (TMB) is considered a sensitive and reliable test that excludes the presence of blood.”

So how did a falsehood that prejudicial fly around the world?

“I cannot tell how the truth may be; I say the tale as it was said to me,” said Sir Walter Scott.

Timeline: Luminol-Revealed Footprints, House of Horrors



Luminol footprint said to be compatible to Amanda Knox's foot. Her roommates' feet were never measured. Perugia Shock
*December 17, 2007. Police learn that a bloody Nike shoeprint found by the victim’s bed is the wrong size and style to pin on Raffaele Sollecito–and belongs instead to Rudy Guede (a fact they’ll conceal until May 15, 2008, when Rudy finally admits it). Nothing else connects Raffaele to the crime. Forensics investigators swoop down on the “house of horrors,” more than one month after Kercher’s slashing. They make a show of finding a now-rusted, untestable bra clasp. The tiny metal clasp has levitated across the room and ended up under a dirty carpet. They handle it with stained gloves and drop it on the trampled floor to be photographed–and only then send it off to Rome for testing.

“All of a sudden, someone remembered the hook,” writes Giangavino Sulas of Oggi. “They rushed to recover it in a house that had, in the meantime, undergone three searches. They found it and, surprise, there was the DNA of Raffaele.”

But they didn’t stop there. Before this search, they’d also visited Amanda, Raffaele and alleged co-conspirator Rudy Guede in their jail cells. With great fanfare, they’d taken their footprints. Now they apply luminol to the cottage floor, hoping to find traces that link the three suspects to the crime. A herd of investigators and six young people, sans booties, have thumped through these rooms since Meredith’s murder.


Top cop Edgardo Giobbi: He fibbed to the Daily Mail, claiming Amanda had left a bloody shoeprint in her own bedroom.
*January 11, 2008. Police leak the fallacious “CSI technique leads Italian police to bloody footprint in Foxy Knoxy’s bedroom” story to the notorious Daily Mail. It claims this incriminating evidence was revealed by luminol “a blood-revealing substance made famous by hit series CSI Miami.” In fact, luminol reacts to many substances. Scientists must do a TMB test to confirm blood. Coincidentally, this leak comes “just hours after police revealed that they had discovered traces of DNA from suspect Raffaele Sollecito on Meredith’s bra” (actually bra clasp). Rudy Guede, condemmed in a separate trial, left DNA on the bra, on the victim, on her handbag and elsewhere.

Who leaked these juicy details to Britain’s nastiest tabloid? None other than Edgardo Giobbi, head of Rome’s elite SCO crime-fighting unit. Boasting that his investigations run on sheer psychology, not forensics, he told private investigator Paul Ciolino that he became very suspicious of Amanda and Raffaele after they were spotted eating pizza, days after the crime. In court, he claimed that Knox had swiveled her hips at him, while donning protective booties at the crime scene. “Oopla,” she is supposed to have said. Before Knox even went on trial, his office posted a photo of the U.S. honor student in its rogues gallery of convicted felons, amid Mafiosi responsible for innumerable atrocities.

“This is a crucial discovery and very important,” Giobbi, boss of bosses, said of the non-existent bloody footprint. ”It was discovered during the examination of the apartment and was in Amanda’s bedroom. At this stage we do not know if it was made by a man or a woman.”

Admitting that investigators would “compare it to the three suspects” and nobody else, he added that “there were also traces of blood found between the room and other parts of the apartment.”


Amanda Knox supposedly showered in this bloody bathroom, which is actually painted with the phenolphthalein. It instantly turns pink in the presence of blood, but after a few minutes, oxidizes and turns pink everywhere, producing the effect seen here. In fact, the room had only minor blood stains that Knox took for menstural blood, since she lived in a flat full of women.
January 16, 2008. Police leak a bloody photograph to the Daily Mail and other tabloids, claiming Amanda showered in a bathroom after the crime that looked like a butcher shop. In fact, the forensics team had treated the room with phenolphthalein, which instantly turns pink when it detects blood and then oxidizes everywhere (see photo at right). The first officers who arrived saw only a few drops on the tap, a slight smear in the bidet and a smudge on a bath mat. They were so unalarmed that they were reluctant to break down the victim’s locked bedroom door to see if she was inside.

October 9, 2008. During Amanda and Raffaele’s pretrial, Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni concedes on the stand that she tested the “bloody” footprints for blood and the TMB test came up negative. But she makes the Orwellian argument, from which she will never retreat, that the court can “presume” the prints were bloody, because the sample was scanty and Rudy’s bloody shoeprints yielded abundant samples. There was, in other words, plenty of the victim’s blood at the crime scene. Guess who Judge Paolo Micheli chooses to be the “independent expert” called in to verify Stefanoni’s results? Her boss, Dr. Renato Biondi. He says everything’s fine. Prosecutor Giuliano Miginini boasts of “unassailable evidence.”

June 12, 2008. Dr. Stefanoni finally releases her report, “Relazione Tecnica Indagine di Genetica Forense” to the defense. It makes the unusual claim that “a scientific assessment of the possible presence of blood can be determined in the presence of samples positive for luminol but negative for tetramethylbenzidine (the blood test).” She still claims the samples were scanty, but the paperwork shows that they were abundant enough for two blood tests, both negative.

*May 15, 2009. Print expert Lorenzo Rinaldi, from Rome’s scientific police, testifies that two luminol-revealed footprints were “compatible” in size with Amanda’s footprints–one leaving her room and another in the hall outside Kercher’s door. Conceding that he’s not a forensics biologist and can’t identify blood traces, he admits under cross-examination that he didn’t compare the prints to the feet of Amanda’s two Italian roommates. Nor can he explain why her footprints would be sinister in her own home. He confirms that luminol reacts to substances other than blood, even fruit juice or rust. Nevertheless reporters, far from America’s tech corridors, gush about his “precise” Powerpoint presentations (which U.S. grade schoolchildren have long ago mastered). Missed in the gushing is the fact that Rinaldi uses “precise” Powerpoints to pin smudgy, unmeasurable footprints to Amanda and Raffaele. Nevertheless, jurors and judges are impressed, right along with the reporters.



May 22, 26, 2009. Police forensics expert Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni talks up the luminol prints, speaking of “presumptive blood,” the same argument she’s been making since pretrial.

July 6, 2009. Amanda’s scientific expert, coroner Sarah Gino, testifies about the luminol-revealed footprints and finds them meaningless, since soil, cleaning products and other substances can react with luminol. Indeed, the prints can’t even be dated and could have been placed there before the murder for innocent reasons. Dr Carlo Torre, speaking for the defense, shows scorn for the luminol footprints, complaining of their vague outlines, the difficulty of measuring them. He wonders aloud why police didn’t take prints from the other roommates.

July 18, 2009. Defense expert Adriano Tagliabracci is on the stand, when prosecutor Manuela Comodi makes a major faux pas. He argues that the DNA on the bra clasp is too scanty to yield reliable results. Dr. Stefanoni feeds information to prosecutor Comodi, who lets it slip that 1.4 nanograms of DNA were found on the bra clasp, The defense complains loudly, wondering why this figure doesn’t appear on any documents. Judge Giancarlo Massei orders Stefanoni to provide all manner of paperwork and closes down court until the fall. This action will finally quantity the amount of DNA on the bra strap and make clear that all of the luminol footprints tested negative for blood.

September 26, 2009. Nope, the luminol prints weren’t bloody, Dr. Sarah Gino reveals. She’s quoted in Judge Giancarlo Massei’s report, released after the verdict: “We learn, contrary to what was presented in the technical report filed by the forensics police, and also to what was said in court, that not only was the luminol test performed on these traces, but also the genetic diagnosis for the presence of blood, using tetramethylbenzidine, and that this test gave a negative result on all evidentiary items from which it was possible to obtain a genetic profile.” As for samples being scanty, Dr. Gino reveals that the famous “Foxy Knoxy” footprint in Amanda’s room shows 240 pg, a significant amount. Not only was it found negative for blood, but also for the victim’s profile. In other words, the luminol footprints had nothing to do with the crime.

November 20, 2009. Prosecutor Comodi defends Dr. Stefanoni’s work during closing arguments, asking jurors to use common sense. She insists that Raffaele made a bloody footprint found on a blue bathmat because he also made (nonexistent) luminol-revealed bloody footprints. Indeed, commonsense would lead one to conclude that Rudy Guede left the bloody footprint, since his bloody shoeprints extend from the victim’s bedroom all the way to the front door.

“At the scene of the crime there is a footprint made in blood on the bathmat and Knox and Sollecito’s footprints made in blood on the floor and these were supposedly made at some different time because they stepped in bleach or rust or fruit juice?” Comodi nevertheless tells jurors. “You decide.”

December 4, 2009. Judges and jurors condem Raffaele and Amanda. When Judge Massei releases his report, he’ll concede that Sarah Gino was right; yes, the prints tested negative for blood. But he uses those undated bloodless footprints, which any of the four roommates could’ve made, to nail Amanda to the crime. Indeed, he has her murdering Meredith in bare feet and then carelessly sauntering around the cottage (while paradoxically performing a magical cleanup, removing all trace of her and Raffaele from the murder room, without disturbing Rudy’s traces). Actually, forensics investigators who never changed their booties did walk through this crime scene and all around the cottage, but no mention is made of them. Instead, Judge Massei returns to Dr. Stefanoni’s “presumptive blood theory.”

Note the word “appear” in bold below, because that’s where he starts penning a crime novel, and not for the first time in this report. I’ve marked the most fallacious, prejudicial parts in boldface. Recall that Judge Massei has no scientific degree and refused to let independent experts look at the DNA tests in the Knox case. Now, post-trial, he introduces a footprint analysis method never vetted by any forensic biologist on the planet. Recall that he deliberated with the jurors and was looked to as the “expert” in the case. They never debated Amanda and Raffaele’s guilt or innocence, only whether they should get life (30 years) or a lesser sentence. They felt they were being kind when they gave Amanda 26 years; Raffaele, 25. The two college students are appealing their convictions. Rudy Guede, to whom nearly all evidence points, got 30 years at trial and 16 upon appeal.

Judge Massei imagines Amanda tiptoeing around in bloody feet after stabbing poor Meredith to death, neatly accounting for all of the luminol-enhanced footprints. In reading this, I wonder, when is the burden of proof ever placed on the prosecution in Italy? This is backward:

“The luminol-revealed prints, whose presence in several places in various rooms of the cottage was explained by reference to fruit juice, bleach, various vegetables, rust, and so on, but appear, on the contrary, to be explainable if one holds that the Luminol gave off fluorescence because of the presence of blood. In this regard, one cannot simply disregard the fact that the bloodstains were undeniably abundant in Meredith’s room, from which easily, or indeed inevitably, they must have been exported to other parts of the house by anyone who, coming out of Meredith’s room, went into these other parts. This is seen for the shoes of Rudy Guede, marking their owner’s footsteps along the corridor towards the exit from the house; it was seen for the traces found in the bathroom; it should be considered that also happened for the traces found in Romanelli’s room, in Knox’s room, in the corridor, and it should be pointed out that two of these traces give a mixed biological profile of Amanda and Meredith, and the others the biological profile of Amanda alone. She, it must therefore be held, washed Meredith’s blood off her bare feet, but on the soles some bloody residue must have remained, and when she went into her own room, into Romanelli’s room and passed through the corridor, and in several points in the room where she had passed, she left the traces that were discovered.”

April 19, 2010. Amanda and Raffaele appeals documents filed. They note that Dr. Stefanoni continues to argue presumptive blood because the sample was scanty, even though her own testimony disproves that. “From the reading of the statements of the geneticist on October 4, 2008, in fact, it shows that–before the DNA extraction–the same had provided and carried out at least two tests–about the blood nature of the trace: generic tetramethylbenzidene (TMB) test for the presence of blood. The TMB test is specific for blood. Both tests gave a negative result.

March 2011. Wikipedia finally deletes “made in blood” from its prejudicial list of evidence: “Luminol revealed footprints made in blood in the flat, compatible with the feet of Knox and Sollecito.” It continues to hint that a bloody shoeprint left by a woman was found on the pillowcase under the victim–although no science supports this police contention. Indeed, only traces of Rudy Guede were found in the murder room, and those traces were everywhere.

NO blood no dna and Amanda Knox lived there but her footprints were not in the room nor were her boyfriends so how come one person left bloody footprints and the others none.

As for the mixed blood it was shown in the video that the woman swabbing for blood not only didn't change her gloves she also used the same swab!!!!!!!!!! She mixed the blood


Gioia Brocci, photographic agent of the Questura of Perugia, collected the evidence samples in the bathroom that was shared by Amanda and Meredith. Three of the samples showed Amanda's DNA mixed with Meredith's blood. The prosecution has tried to insinuate that these findings are incriminating.

Meredith's blood was visible in several areas in the bathroom. Rudy Guede used the bathroom to quickly clean himself up after he attacked Meredith. When he did this he left behind Meredith's blood. As stated above, three of these samples were mixed with Amanda's DNA. This is completely understandable because the bathroom was used daily by Amanda.

To put this in perspective, think about your own bathroom. Swabbing your bathroom sink in the bathroom that you use daily would unquestionably yield your DNA. When Gioia Brocci collected the samples from the bathroom she swabbed large surface areas to clean up the blood. When doing this she also wiped up Amanda's DNA in the process. When collecting samples, Brocci actually advanced the mixing process. She used the swabs like a cleaning rag.

It was unknown at the time but the drop of blood on the faucet belonged to Amanda. This blood was not mixed with any other DNA. The small amount of blood on the faucet most likely came from an irritated ear piercing. Brocci collected this sample before she collected the other samples on the sink, toilet, wall and bidet.

The video below shows the samples being collected in the bathroom. When watching the video look for these important details.

1. Brocci wiped Amanda's drop of blood off of the faucet before she collected the other samples on the sink, toilet, wall and bidet. Watch her thumb. Brocci kept her thumb down and rubbed her thumb repeatedly over the sample.

2. Brocci did not change her gloves after she collected each sample. (see photos below) Watch as she collected the next sample after the faucet. Once again, she put the same thumb down into the sample that she was collecting. Keep in mind, it was unknown at the time, but the sample from the faucet contained Amanda's blood. She had now repeatedly rubbed her thumb in Amanda's blood and then onto the next sample.

3. When Brocci collected the samples from the sink and the bidet, she used a wiping motion and wiped multiple surfaces with the same swab. She was collecting Amanda's DNA from Amanda's own bathroom as she was collecting Meredith's blood samples. Not only was she collecting Amanda's residual DNA, she was mixing it together with Meredith's blood.
 
That's way too long to quote.
The female footprints in Meredith's room match Amanda's shoe size. They do not match Meredith's. The other roommates have extremely strong alibis for the night of the murder.

The Judge's report addresses so many things people question. It clears up the courts thinking on various aspects of the case. It also helps you to realize so much in the media is either only a small part of the whole pictures and/or twisted to look like Amanda is being unfairly prosecuted.
It even discusses the DNA and a clean up that has been mentioned here many times.
 
That's way too long to quote.
The female footprints in Meredith's room match Amanda's shoe size. They do not match Meredith's. The other roommates have extremely strong alibis for the night of the murder.

The Judge's report addresses so many things people question. It clears up the courts thinking on various aspects of the case. It also helps you to realize so much in the media is either only a small part of the whole pictures and/or twisted to look like Amanda is being unfairly prosecuted.
It even discusses the DNA and a clean up that has been mentioned here many times.

Did it discuss how one would selectively clean up/get rid of the DNA of TWO assailants while leaving plenty from just the third assailant? Because that would keep scientists busy for ages. Now that Amanda has succeeded in being able to discern her (and her BF's) DNA as compared to Guede's DNA with only the use of her naked eye, she ought to be up for some sort of genius award.
 
That's way too long to quote.
The female footprints in Meredith's room match Amanda's shoe size. They do not match Meredith's. The other roommates have extremely strong alibis for the night of the murder.

The Judge's report addresses so many things people question. It clears up the courts thinking on various aspects of the case. It also helps you to realize so much in the media is either only a small part of the whole pictures and/or twisted to look like Amanda is being unfairly prosecuted.
It even discusses the DNA and a clean up that has been mentioned here many times.

None of the footprints that were discovered with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA.

There were 8 bloody shoe prints found in Meredith's room. There were a total of five shoe prints found on the pillowcase. The prosecution's expert only found two shoe prints on the pillowcase. Forensics expert Francesco Vinci identified all five by highlighting the fabric using a process called Crimescope. None of these shoe prints represent a woman's shoe size 37. The prosecution's expert found one partial shoe print on the edge of the pillowcase. It was that shoe print that was said to be a woman's shoe. The truth is, there were three partial shoe prints on the edge of the pillowcase. All three partial shoe prints match the tread pattern on Rudy Guede's shoes.

Please link me to the part where they discuss how Amanda was able to remove their DNA without removing Guede's. I have searched and can find nothing explaining it. I would like to read it. Thanks!
 
A couple of more questions I am hoping you could clear up and I am asking because if they did it I just reconcile these questions. I haven't read as much as you have so please point me to the reasons.

How do neither of them have any signs of a struggle on them? Not one bruise or cut.

Why have they found nothing with any type of blood splatter on it? Where did they clean up and why is there no DNA there...for example back at his apartment. They would have had to track something somewhere. Not one piece of clothing was found with her DNA on it. How? I just don't think two college kids could somehow eliminate all forensic signs of their involvement.
 
A couple of more questions I am hoping you could clear up and I am asking because if they did it I just reconcile these questions. I haven't read as much as you have so please point me to the reasons.

How do neither of them have any signs of a struggle on them? Not one bruise or cut.

Why have they found nothing with any type of blood splatter on it? Where did they clean up and why is there no DNA there...for example back at his apartment. They would have had to track something somewhere. Not one piece of clothing was found with her DNA on it. How? I just don't think two college kids could somehow eliminate all forensic signs of their involvement.

They didn't find any bloody clothing or anything like that.
It's hard to explain their findings in a post because I don't want to make it super long.

There is Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood in a few spots (bathroom and room where break in occurred).
There was little other DNA of Amanda found in the apartment at all.
There are female shoeprints matching Amanda's size in Meredith's room on a pillow under the body.
The court address the idea of selective cleanup and basically they say there was a clean up because you can't have Meredith's blood in the bathroom and Filomena's room but no evidence of it getting there.
Rudy's footprints lead straight out the front door from Meredith's room.
There's also a bloody partial footprint on the bathmat which doesn't match Rudy but could match Raffaele (he's not ruled out as a match).
The court saw that as further evidence of a clean up because there should be other prints. It's not like he could just appear in the bathroom and leave one print.

As far as I can tell, the only one with any type of injuries is Meredith, so I don't think Rudy had anything either.
Meredith didn't have the type of defensive wounds expected in such an attack which is one reason it is believe there were multiple attackers. They think she was held down so she couldn't fight back.
 
None of the footprints that were discovered with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA.

There were 8 bloody shoe prints found in Meredith's room. There were a total of five shoe prints found on the pillowcase. The prosecution's expert only found two shoe prints on the pillowcase. Forensics expert Francesco Vinci identified all five by highlighting the fabric using a process called Crimescope. None of these shoe prints represent a woman's shoe size 37. The prosecution's expert found one partial shoe print on the edge of the pillowcase. It was that shoe print that was said to be a woman's shoe. The truth is, there were three partial shoe prints on the edge of the pillowcase. All three partial shoe prints match the tread pattern on Rudy Guede's shoes.

Please link me to the part where they discuss how Amanda was able to remove their DNA without removing Guede's. I have searched and can find nothing explaining it. I would like to read it. Thanks!


I don't know where you found what you have written above but that's not what the court found.
The court believed there to be shoeprints from a women's shoe in Meredith's room (Amanda's size)
 
Why did Raffaele lie to the Postal Police and say he had called the Carabinieri about the break in when he hadn't?
Why does Amanda call Meredith's phones and hang up immediately when she's supposed to be trying to reach her (Filomena's called last much longer)
Why does Amanda tell the Postal police Meredith always locked her door when she didn't? Also why doesn't she make a big deal to them that the door is locked considering she found it odd enough that Raffaele tried to break it down and she tried to climb on the terrace to see in the room.
What a strange coincidence that her false confession fingering Patrick (her boss) contains elements of the crime that were unknown at the time but later found true
Why is the window glass found on top of the items thrown about Filomena's room?
Why is Amanda's desk lamp (the only light in her room) found under Meredith bed?
Why was nothing taken from the apartment but Meredith's phones and key?
 
Did it discuss how one would selectively clean up/get rid of the DNA of TWO assailants while leaving plenty from just the third assailant? Because that would keep scientists busy for ages. Now that Amanda has succeeded in being able to discern her (and her BF's) DNA as compared to Guede's DNA with only the use of her naked eye, she ought to be up for some sort of genius award.

Where's her DNA in the rest of the apartment? She lived there, right? Seems odd her DNA was only found in two rooms associated with the murder.
 
They didn't find any bloody clothing or anything like that.
It's hard to explain their findings in a post because I don't want to make it super long.

There is Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood in a few spots (bathroom and room where break in occurred).
There was little other DNA of Amanda found in the apartment at all.
There are female shoeprints matching Amanda's size in Meredith's room on a pillow under the body.
The court address the idea of selective cleanup and basically they say there was a clean up because you can't have Meredith's blood in the bathroom and Filomena's room but no evidence of it getting there.
Rudy's footprints lead straight out the front door from Meredith's room.
There's also a bloody partial footprint on the bathmat which doesn't match Rudy but could match Raffaele (he's not ruled out as a match).
The court saw that as further evidence of a clean up because there should be other prints. It's not like he could just appear in the bathroom and leave one print.

As far as I can tell, the only one with any type of injuries is Meredith, so I don't think Rudy had anything either.
Meredith didn't have the type of defensive wounds expected in such an attack which is one reason it is believe there were multiple attackers. They think she was held down so she couldn't fight back.

Here is a website that show exactly how all the footprints on the pillow event the partials match up to Guede. It even matches his footprint on the bathmat.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-04.html


Meredith is a fighter. There are signs of a major struggle. I just can't reconcile that she was fighting off three people and again didn't scratch either of the other two. She wasn't drugged. They would have had to fight her to the ground and at some point would have had the opportunity to scratch or bruise them. Not one conclusive piece of forensic evidence proves either of them were involved, but there is plenty to convict RG.

Also how is it that the three of them planned a crime in 90 minutes? Wasn't Amanda supposed to work? Then she wasn't needed and 90 minutes later they murdered Meredith. Seems odd. She only knew/dated RS for less than 2 weeks, but in that time they realized they both were capable of murder. By all accounts Amanda had only briefly met RG, but again they all masterminded or by a twist of fate were together at the cottage and decided to murder meredith. What was their motive? I see that money is one of the motives given, but AK had $4000 in her account. Why would she murder meredith for 300 euro. This is someone with no history of violence. I feel it is a big leap.

Every single piece of evidence that the prosecution has from what I have read has either been proven false, has another reasonable/likely explanation or no basis/evidence supporting it. I can't justify someone being convicted with only that to base the conviction on. I get that is not the way the italian system works, but they released her and I am against her being extradited based on what they have. It is a complete miscarriage of justice.

Like I said I have no skin in the game. No loyalty to AK so if evidence surfaces to really prove she was involved I am all for her going to jail. In all that I read on both pro AK and anti AK websites the only thing I am convinced of is there is no proof she was involved and based on that I can't see sending her to Italy.
 
Here is a website that show exactly how all the footprints on the pillow event the partials match up to Guede. It even matches his footprint on the bathmat.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-04.html


Meredith is a fighter. There are signs of a major struggle. I just can't reconcile that she was fighting off three people and again didn't scratch either of the other two. She wasn't drugged. They would have had to fight her to the ground and at some point would have had the opportunity to scratch or bruise them. Not one conclusive piece of forensic evidence proves either of them were involved, but there is plenty to convict RG.

Also how is it that the three of them planned a crime in 90 minutes? Wasn't Amanda supposed to work? Then she wasn't needed and 90 minutes later they murdered Meredith. Seems odd. She only knew/dated RS for less than 2 weeks, but in that time they realized they both were capable of murder. By all accounts Amanda had only briefly met RG, but again they all masterminded or by a twist of fate were together at the cottage and decided to murder meredith. What was their motive? I see that money is one of the motives given, but AK had $4000 in her account. Why would she murder meredith for 300 euro. This is someone with no history of violence. I feel it is a big leap.

Every single piece of evidence that the prosecution has from what I have read has either been proven false, has another reasonable/likely explanation or no basis/evidence supporting it. I can't justify someone being convicted with only that to base the conviction on. I get that is not the way the italian system works, but they released her and I am against her being extradited based on what they have. It is a complete miscarriage of justice.

Like I said I have no skin in the game. No loyalty to AK so if evidence surfaces to really prove she was involved I am all for her going to jail. In all that I read on both pro AK and anti AK websites the only thing I am convinced of is there is no proof she was involved and based on that I can't see sending her to Italy.

The problem is you are reading a site that is 100% pro Amanda and taking what they say as true.
The court listened to both sides and came to different conclusions about the evidence than what is posted on the linked site.
Every piece of evidence the prosecution presented has not been proven false and the court didn't find all explanations reasonable or likely. The opposite is actually true. The Judges statements explain in great detail the arguments they heard and the reasoning behind what they believe from those arguments.

Again, Meredith had minimal defensive wounds, certainly not the type of defense wounds to suggest she was actively fighting off her attacker/attackers.
 
The problem is you are reading a site that is 100% pro Amanda and taking what they say as true.
The court listened to both sides and came to different conclusions about the evidence than what is posted on the linked site.
Every piece of evidence the prosecution presented has not been proven false and the court didn't find all explanations reasonable or likely. The opposite is actually true. The Judges statements explain in great detail the arguments they heard and the reasoning behind what they believe from those arguments.

Again, Meredith had minimal defensive wounds, certainly not the type of defense wounds to suggest she was actively fighting off her attacker/attackers.

You also have to remember that same court exonerated her.

I'm not just reading pro AK sites. I've actually read both, but I feel like no true independent site exists. They are all either for or against her. The thing I keep coming back to is there is irrefutable proof RG is involved, but again nothing concrete for AK only theories and possibilities. Even you say in your statement what the judge believes. We wouldn't have to rely on what we believe if there was forensic evidence that ties her to the crime. Just like no matter what we think about RG it has been proven he was there. No question about it. DNA, handprints, footprints. Everything is irrefutable.

My thing is with this case it comes down to beliefs with AK and I can't see putting someone in jail based on beliefs. There is too much doubt with all the evidence they are presenting against her to make me say that I'd rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent person spend their life in jail.

The people who processed and handled this case are to blame for this whole mess. The improperly processed a crime scene. They lied and have changed stories just too many times for me to trust them. I will not say I believe she couldn't have been involved, but again nothing proves to me she was involved.

I am curious do you feel that she is guilty.... 100% no chance she didn't commit this crime?
 
You also have to remember that same court exonerated her.

I'm not just reading pro AK sites. I've actually read both, but I feel like no true independent site exists. They are all either for or against her. The thing I keep coming back to is there is irrefutable proof RG is involved, but again nothing concrete for AK only theories and possibilities. Even you say in your statement what the judge believes. We wouldn't have to rely on what we believe if there was forensic evidence that ties her to the crime. Just like no matter what we think about RG it has been proven he was there. No question about it. DNA, handprints, footprints. Everything is irrefutable.

My thing is with this case it comes down to beliefs with AK and I can't see putting someone in jail based on beliefs. There is too much doubt with all the evidence they are presenting against her to make me say that I'd rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent person spend their life in jail.

The people who processed and handled this case are to blame for this whole mess. The improperly processed a crime scene. They lied and have changed stories just too many times for me to trust them. I will not say I believe she couldn't have been involved, but again nothing proves to me she was involved.

I am curious do you feel that she is guilty.... 100% no chance she didn't commit this crime?

Irrefutable proof is way too high of a standard and not what any court uses.

There's too much twisting of the evidence which is why I read that Judge's report. It's long but it's the best way to understand what was presented and what was actually thought about that evidence.

Of course it all comes down to what someone believes. How often do cases have experts for both sides giving complete opposite opinions using the same evidence? The jury just to decide what to believe from those witnesses. This is no different.

If you want to blame this case on lies, you have to look at Amanda also.
She was lying from the beginning. According to Filomena's testimony, Amanda's lies began in her first phone call to Filomena.
I believe she is guilty. More importantly, I think the reasoning used in finding her guilty was logical given the evidence.
 
Irrefutable proof is way too high of a standard and not what any court uses.

There's too much twisting of the evidence which is why I read that Judge's report. It's long but it's the best way to understand what was presented and what was actually thought about that evidence.

Of course it all comes down to what someone believes. How often do cases have experts for both sides giving complete opposite opinions using the same evidence? The jury just to decide what to believe from those witnesses. This is no different.

If you want to blame this case on lies, you have to look at Amanda also.
She was lying from the beginning. According to Filomena's testimony, Amanda's lies began in her first phone call to Filomena.
I believe she is guilty. More importantly, I think the reasoning used in finding her guilty was logical given the evidence.

I didn't say irrefutable is the standard a court should be held to just that there was irrefutable proof where RG was involved.

I believe we should have no reasonable doubt(and I stated this in other posts I have made) with any person and unfortunately there is just too much doubt in this case to send her to jail IMO. We have no motive. How would they plan this crime in just 90 minutes or are we to believe it was fate. Why would RG be involved in a dispute about cleanliness or why would AK kill Meredith to get 300 euros? It makes no sense.

Filomena had the same issues in her testimony only it was called confusion then, but with Amanda it is called a lie.

I have read a chunk, but not all of the judges report. I know that in some cases it doesn't always come down to forensic evidence, but there is motive or a history of behavior. None of which they have here. It is a lot of smoke and mirrors. Why the about face between judges when no new evidence has been introduced. Isn't it alarming she can be convicted, exonerated and convicted...to me that is proof positive in this case there have been too many mistakes and too much doubt to put her in jail. The other thing is the new judge has a lot of personal ties to Mignini. Again, the Italian judicial system has proven to be corrupt in this case, so my inclination is to not trust a judge tied so closely to someone who is responsible for so much destruction. I feel like they are doing damage control because they look incompetent and aren't taking her guilt or innocence or the evidence into account anymore. Sadly, we will never know what happened because of all the botched work and lies(on both sides, AK is certainly culpable there), but it still IMO isn't enough for me to say beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
Where's her DNA in the rest of the apartment? She lived there, right? Seems odd her DNA was only found in two rooms associated with the murder.

I just wanted to add I looked back and it isn't that they didn't find her DNA anywhere else, but that they took only 3 samples from her room and all three tested positive for her DNA. So that statement that her DNA wasn't found in the rest of the apartment isn't true. You can't find what you aren't looking/testing for.

If this investigation was done properly, they would have taken samples from all over the apartment. They also would have asked for cheek swabs of filomena and her fiance excluding their DNA from any of the mystery samples they found as well as any of the people working the crime scene.
 
I just wanted to add I looked back and it isn't that they didn't find her DNA anywhere else, but that they took only 3 samples from her room and all three tested positive for her DNA. So that statement that her DNA wasn't found in the rest of the apartment isn't true. You can't find what you aren't looking/testing for.

If this investigation was done properly, they would have taken samples from all over the apartment. They also would have asked for cheek swabs of filomena and her fiance excluding their DNA from any of the mystery samples they found as well as any of the people working the crime scene.

From the Judge's report

One peculiarity is, for example, the observation that inside the cottage at Via della Pergola
almost no traces were found of Amanda Marie Knox – apart from those that will be mentioned
as relevant to the murder – or of Raffaele Sollecito. For the latter, the explanation could even be
simple, given that he had initiated the amorous relationship with Amanda Marie Knox only a
few days earlier and so had just started visiting her place. But for the former, Amanda Marie
Knox, the explanation is anything but simple, since she herself had been living there since
September.
 


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