Are you sending your kids to school next month?

[KittyKitty]

This is a sincere question, not snarky. How do you know your kids are falling behind? Is it their grades? Or something else?

Thanks

 

[DLgal]

This is a sincere question, not snarky. How do you know your kids are falling behind? Is it their grades? Or something else?

Thanks

Grades are part of it. The other part is the teachers admitting that they have scaled the curriculum WAY back because it is impossible to deliver the same amount of content virtually. States have suspended proficiency testing, because they know the kids will do poorly without test prep. Testing and quiz taking is rife with cheating, since kids are at home and can use their phones during tests. Parents, often with good intentions, overstep and help their kids TOO much, which hurts them in the long run.

Kids are simply not being taught the same amount or level of material this year. Even in the hybrid program my kids are in, the workload is shockingly low, compared to how I remember my own high school classes. Teachers are afraid of overwhelming students, which is fair, but that means standards are being lowered and in some instances, even grading is being changed to make it harder to actually fail, because districts simply cannot have large numbers of students needing to repeat a grade next year.

Even for kids who are smart and able to manage the work, they are being shortchanged and will only realize it later when their knowledge base has holes in it.

 

[SaintsManiac]

This is a sincere question, not snarky. How do you know your kids are falling behind? Is it their grades? Or something else?

Thanks

For us it was the lack of control the teachers had on the virtual students. That was in NO WAY their fault. They just had too much on their plate. My daughter said the kids were fighting with each other and refusing to do their share of group work, etc. My daughter also had pretty bad camera shyness and just no motivation at all.

She was back in class for 4 days and said it was 1000 times better. Her grades improved and she was her old self again.

Some kids just do better in person. And it wasn't for lack of trying. She had a quiet place to work. She had everything she needed. It just wasn't right for her.

 

[lifesavacation]

This is a sincere question, not snarky. How do you know your kids are falling behind? Is it their grades? Or something else?

Thanks

Last week our district sent out a newsletter with the statistics. 50% of the district’s seniors are failing one or more classes. Minority students are failing more than their white peers.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I'm reading back through the comments and was going to respond, but, as I have said multiple times, in 100% honesty I just came here to vent. It looks like I am far from alone and it doesn't matter what side you are on. Thanks to the mods for giving us a little latitude to do so.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[Kestryl]

I don’t disagree with you. However in what I’ve seen, both here and in my community, it’s the “haves” who are complaining the loudest.

It’s not ideal and nobody wants this. And I will acknowledge that everybody’s situation is different, but so many went into with the idea it was terrible, it was destined to fail. Attitude won’t solve everything, but it certainly helps make it better.

Yes. I have quite a few friends and associates who work in public service roles (ex social workers) or are activists for causes dealing with issues such as child abuse, trafficking, and hunger. They’ve been involved and concerned for these issues for years, way before coronavirus. I haven’t seen them complain about schools being closed, except to point out that the reliance on schools has to change. (As one of them put: food insecurity and abuse doesn’t stop in the summer. If schools have to be open to deal with those issues, why are there breaks?) They’re not advocating for schools to fully open.

I have seen a lot of demands for in-person schooling come from people who, at best, have never shown interest in these issues or, at worst, have actively been against any social nets. Comments I have seen from that last category: “they just had the kids to get tax breaks”; “if you’re on food stamps you shouldn’t have a cell phone”; or my personal favorite that is just so telling: “we shouldn’t have to pay taxes for public schools.” If someone is saying stuff like that, I’m not going to really consider your opinion when it comes to schools being in-person.

 

[ski_mom]

Your point might be better made without the condescending tone and before someone says it no I'm not offended. Not to mention the your kids are so smart comment. Plus how do you know they will go onto college and do fine in life?

Kids can be quite adaptable but it doesn't make them an impenetrable shield either especially those who were already in precarious situations. FWIW globally students falling behind in this subject or that subject or in this stage of life is happening, in places with different structures than the U.S. You might want to read up on that.

I agree with this - my kids are older (youngest is a freshman in college this year, older 2 already graduated from college), so doesn't apply to them as much, but many adults have a hard time focusing when they work from home, so I'm sure it's very difficult for children to be disciplined enough to motivate themselves to login and get all of their work done.

 

[Kestryl]

Last week our district sent out a newsletter with the statistics. 50% of the district’s seniors are failing one or more classes. Minority students are failing more than their white peers.

I don’t know the exact metrics of our district, but I know the failure rate is up. Some of my husband’s students have said they don’t need to try because the school will just pass them like they did in spring. They’re all having a come-to-Jesus moment now that they’ve been told there’s no way for them to pass and they’ll have to retake the class in the future.

 

[Meglen]

You know what, it's not even just the teachers getting sick because of the spread from school. I work part time in a grocery store and a teen that works there also, got Covid from someone from school. He then came to work not knowing he was sick and got a few co-workers sick. It all snowballs. It's not worth it. Keep your kids home, do remote learning and help them out for a few more months. I would rather my kids stay healthy and put more effort into their learning.

Oh I agree with you my son in full remote he struggled at the begining but he acually is doing quite well now once getting used to everything.

 

[VandVsmama]

If your kids are flourishing, you should thank your lucky stars. But it's terribly myopic to assume everyone's kids are just like yours. You referenced in your other post how privileged everyone here must be. Now you're showing your own economic privilege to not be even considering the plight of all those kids out there who don't have reliable wifi, dedicated devices or parental assistance because Mom and Dad are out working to keep food on the table. Many kids aren't even logging in for their online school. This is a mess that will have ramifications for years to come.

amen.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Yes. I have quite a few friends and associates who work in public service roles (ex social workers) or are activists for causes dealing with issues such as child abuse, trafficking, and hunger. They’ve been involved and concerned for these issues for years, way before coronavirus. I haven’t seen them complain about schools being closed, except to point out that the reliance on schools has to change. (As one of them put: food insecurity and abuse doesn’t stop in the summer. If schools have to be open to deal with those issues, why are there breaks?) They’re not advocating for schools to fully open.

I have seen a lot of demands for in-person schooling come from people who, at best, have never shown interest in these issues or, at worst, have actively been against any social nets. Comments I have seen from that last category: “they just had the kids to get tax breaks”; “if you’re on food stamps you shouldn’t have a cell phone”; or my personal favorite that is just so telling: “we shouldn’t have to pay taxes for public schools.” If someone is saying stuff like that, I’m not going to really consider your opinion when it comes to schools being in-person.

We go through this every Fall during fire season. Our schools have made the decisions to stay open during even hazardous air quality (with modifications) because the danger to the “have nots” is so great, it’s safer for them at school. And it’s the “haves” who are screaming it’s not safe for kids to be at school.

Maybe it’s having gone through that for 5 years now and/or having had one on one conversations with the superintendents (of both schools we’re in and the county) about decisions they make, that I feel our schools are doing the best they can in a crappy situation. I KNOW closing school was not done, and never has been done, lightly. They know what’s at stake. They know the dangers of kids being out of the physical classroom. So I’m giving them some grace and doing my part to make things as good as they can be at home.

That is not to suggest that my situation is the same as everybody else’s. But I do know my nephew is my daughter’s class and they went into with a terrible attitude about how it won’t work and it’s reflecting in the kids’ attitudes in class. So while as parents we can’t fix it, we can help make the situation better.

 

[Orion Nebula]

Last week our district sent out a newsletter with the statistics. 50% of the district’s seniors are failing one or more classes.

I love how so many parents are blaming their 17/18 year olds failing a class due to it being virtual... if they can't handle some online HS classes how are they going to handle college? Just in case anyone doesn't know there is a lot more independent studying and a lot less hand holding at the university level. And... some of the classes are virtual...

 

[lifesavacation]

I love how so many parents are blaming their 17/18 year olds failing a class due to it being virtual... if they can't handle some online HS classes how are they going to handle college? Just in case anyone doesn't know there is a lot more independent studying and a lot less hand holding at the university level. And... some of the classes are virtual...

The district provided last year’s stats as comparison. If I remember correctly, about 1/3 of seniors were failing one or more classes pre-pandemic. I don’t know what the district college acceptance rate is. Clearly half the students are struggling with their online classes, and some would have struggled regardless of the format. Not every student is ready for college at graduation.

 

[MrsPete]

Some are doing very well and actually excelling. If there is parental involvement and if the kids do what they are instructed to do, they will learn.

Yes, with all the complaining, it's important to note that SOME of our students are doing better than ever. I'm talking about the fairly large group of kids for whom school isn't a fun place -- those who are a little different, those who are bullied. For them, online learning has removed a problem and is allowing them to focus on academics.

This group is smaller than the group who "isn't motivated" (synonym for lazy), but it is very real.

Those in low income or in unstable homes should be brought back first.

I hear what you're saying: those kids are less likely to have good academic supervision at home, etc., etc., etc. But consider how that would come off: Joey and Sam, since you live in the ghetto and your families have been investigated by DSS, you're coming back in person first ...

Don't think kids (and parents) wouldn't figure this stuff out. I remember figuring out in first grade that our three reading groups were divided up by ability level, and I remember figuring out that the lowest group wasn't aware they were the lowest group.

What you recommend sounds good in theory but wouldn't fly in reality.

On the other hand, we are allowing students to self-select whether they return to the classroom, and it has essentially resulted in the opposite of what you suggest: our honors kids, our upper class students have largely returned to campus, whereas our students who are weaker academically (probably those who would benefit most from being on campus) are still at home.

Oh, believe me, we did that. Parents were going to the school board meetings regularly, impassioned pleas, presenting actual facts and data, asking for the data the board was using the keep the schools closed in return.

I wish our school board was presented with /working with facts and data. It's pure emotion and anecdotal stories.

Public schools absolutely can require masks and protocols of what do to do if you come in contact with someone who is positive.

Oh, yes, masks are required of students in my public school ... except while actively eating lunch.

Do you actually know teachers who were hospitalized? I mean seriously hospitalized, not just in and out?

Yes, I know several teachers who have been hospitalized (and several of their spouses /other family members who have been hospitalized. I know two teachers -- one young 30-something, one 50ish -- who have recovered but are suffering from serious, ongoing complications.

Our subs will not come to school, so teachers are covering each others' classes during our planning periods. It makes for a long, hard school day for teachers, and covering those extra classes = less time to plan good lessons for our classes. Add to this that we're teaching in-person classes AND online classes every day. It's a tough time to be a teacher.

I don't mean to offend but why are so many people's kids getting destroyed by a "lackluster" year of virtual learning? I keep seeing people saying that due to having to attend online class that their kids will now be both academically and socially stunted.

Agree. What we're doing now is far from ideal, but to say your kid is ruined /stunted is hyperbole.

I do think the vaccine will change everything.

Agree, but it won't change everything immediately. It'll take time to get everyone vaccinated ... and I think we all know it's a two-shot process, so that requires double compliance ... and then you have to wait a few weeks for the vaccine to fully "take hold" in the body. If pharmacies had it today, and if all the health care workers had been taken care of, it would still take months to get everyone vaccinated.

So, yes, the vaccine will change everything, but it won't change overnight.

We took food to the students via school busses. They provided breakfast and lunch everyday as well as 3 family type meals for dinner. They also put hotspots on the busses for those near the busses so they could have internet. For those who lived outside the area the hotspot reached the district gave those kids hotspots to use at their houses. As most of the students lived in apartment buildings they found that handing out a few hotspots per apartment complex worked.

Yes, we're doing the same things -- our school is taking good care of our students.

I'm sorry, I just can't with this post. I wish you could have talked to my Grandma before she died a couple of months ago. Or you can go and talk to my Dad. My grandma(my Mom's Mom) went to school up until 6th grade and then the war started.

Eh, school and work have changed significantly-significantly-significantly since Grandma was a student. I don't think it's fair to compare now and then.

I don’t disagree with you. However in what I’ve seen, both here and in my community, it’s the “haves” who are complaining the loudest.

The "haves" are always more involved in school at every level -- they make up the PTA, the Athletic Boosters, and they're the parents who attend Meet The Teachers Night and monitor their kids' homework and academic achievement. Paying attention to what's going on in school is a good bit of what helps a kid grow up to become a "have" himself.

So it's no surprise that the "haves" are making their opinions known about back-to-school.

The other part is the teachers admitting that they have scaled the curriculum WAY back because it is impossible to deliver the same amount of content virtually.

Disagree. It's totally possible to deliver the same amount of content, but our average-and-below students simply won't do that quantity of work without someone standing over /monitoring their progress. We have lowered our standards, but it's not about what's actually possible.

Some kids just do better in person. And it wasn't for lack of trying. She had a quiet place to work. She had everything she needed. It just wasn't right for her.

Agree that some kids do better in person, but that's not the same as saying they're doomed to failure online.

Last week our district sent out a newsletter with the statistics. 50% of the district’s seniors are failing one or more classes. Minority students are failing more than their white peers.

Several thoughts:
- The 50% statistic is not very useful unless we know how many students are USUALLY failing a class in a normal semester.
- Thinking about my own experience over the years, few students fail a class, and it is unusual for a student to fail only one class. A more common situation is that a student who is failing is failing all-or-most classes. So I question the wording of the statistic.
- Many schools are allowing students longer periods of make-up time for missed assignments (not a good choice), so a percentage of those failures will "pull it up" at the last minute.
- Sadly, our minority students miss more days and tend towards lower grades even in a normal semester. This is not a Covid problem.

 

[mom2rtk]

I love how so many parents are blaming their 17/18 year olds failing a class due to it being virtual... if they can't handle some online HS classes how are they going to handle college? Just in case anyone doesn't know there is a lot more independent studying and a lot less hand holding at the university level. And... some of the classes are virtual...

Yeah, not even close to the same thing. Not at any of the Universities any of my kids have attended anyway. My daughter is a mechanical engineering major and says the quality of what they're learning this year compared with last year is not as good. Grades are fine, but she worries if it's going to catch up with her in the upper level classes. Calc 3 online is a booger. I'm sure Diff Eq will be just as fun..

It occurs to me though, if all this remote learning is so successful, those who make a living teaching in person school should worry about their future employment. I mean, who needs it, right? Think of all the tax dollars we could save!

 

[lifesavacation]

Several thoughts:
- The 50% statistic is not very useful unless we know how many students are USUALLY failing a class in a normal semester.
- Thinking about my own experience over the years, few students fail a class, and it is unusual for a student to fail only one class. A more common situation is that a student who is failing is failing all-or-most classes. So I question the wording of the statistic.
- Many schools are allowing students longer periods of make-up time for missed assignments (not a good choice), so a percentage of those failures will "pull it up" at the last minute.
- Sadly, our minority students miss more days and tend towards lower grades even in a normal semester. This is not a Covid problem.

I don’t have any reason to mistrust the stat. My daughter is a senior but takes her classes at the community college and doesn’t participate in the district’s online classes. Last year at this time (prepandemic), the district said around 1/3 of students were failing one or more classes. While some students may be thriving with the online format, about half are failing in one or more classes. Proportionally, minority students are struggling the most.

 

[MrsPete]

It occurs to me though, if all this remote learning is so successful, those who make a living teaching in person school should worry about their future employment. I mean, who needs it, right? Think of all the tax dollars we could save!

With the number of young people going into education plummeting, it might be the answer. We were having difficulty filling teaching jobs here in the South before Covid hit.

I don’t have any reason to mistrust the stat.

I mistrust all statistics because so many people are extremely sloppy while "mathing them up" -- and this 50% flies in the face of what I've seen personally in the past AND this year.

I strongly suspect the truth is something like this: the senior class is made up of 300 students, and 150 classes are being failed. But, in reality, it's probably something like 30-40 students failing 3-4 classes each. That would be in keeping with what I see /have seen over the years. Keep in mind, it's still NOT GOOD.

Just what I suspect from years in education.

 

[Mulder3]

I am in Orange County in Florida. We were just informed around Thanksgiving that we can remain at home if we choose, for the rest of the school year. My 6th grade son has been doing distance learning within our school district for the entire year. We have an ideal situation though because I’m a SAHM and he has his own “office” in a guest bedroom he can work in. Once kids elected to start back in person for 2nd quarter, our school district numbers jumped and I get daily voicemails from the principal about their Covid infections within the middle school. At this point, every single one of his 7 teachers has had to quarantine at home at least once. I’m happy to keep him home if it helps keep our local Covid numbers down. He’s absolutely thriving with the LaunchEd at home program and enjoys rolling out of bed at 9 to walk down the hall and sign in online at 9:30. I just call this “the lost year”. Everyone is on the same playing field and will be exactly where he is when 7th grade starts. I’m never going to get this time with him again at home, so I’m secretly enjoying it!

 

[Lumpy1106]

Re: kids failing classes - what increase in kids failing would you be comfortable with? For me, it's zero, but to dismiss the academic loss altogether as some are doing fails to address the reality. Remote learning DOES NOT WORK. One example, I looked over my DS18 shoulder the other day, 18 of the 20 kids who were logged in (out of 30) did not have their cameras turned on, the other 2 had the camera pointing at the ceiling. Granted the teacher's job is a lot tougher if the kids are not engaged, but, wait a minute, his audio and video was glitching so bad you couldn't hear what he was saying anyway, and he was teaching from his classroom. That puts him miles ahead of the teachers who fought to teach from home. It's a downward spiral; the class is not engaging or tough to even watch, the kids lose interest, making it tougher for the teacher to give an engaging class, the kids lose more interest making it harder to teach. IT DOES NOT WORK!!! If other kids are learning in person 5 miles away in a different County (as is our case) our kids CLEARLY are falling behind just from a learning standpoint. If the teachers are then going to penalize the students further by say, locking the assignments just hours after they are assigned then giving them zeros (yup, that is happening too), now their grades are suffering too.

Here's the biggest indicator of the failure of remote learning though; the teacher's union is actively lobbying to cancel standardized testing this year. ST is a measure of the SCHOOL'S proficiency, not the kids. That should tell you everything you need to know about RL: even the teacher's union knows its a failure.

Add to that, classroom education is but a small part of High School, especially for Seniors. They are missing big life experiences like Prom and Homecoming, Senior year in Varsity team sports, Drama, Choir, Band, the list goes on. Then we are capping it all off with a moronic "virtual Commencement" like the did last year?!? It's not "just one year", it is so much more than that. I genuinely feel bad for you if you don't understand that.

 

[VandVsmama]

Remote/online learning doesn't work for all students. Before COVID, my nephew was already really behind (he's in elementary school), finally got an IEP set up, was being pulled out of the regular class room for 60% of the school day for special assistance in multiple areas, etc. Between March and June of this year, the most he got from his school in terms of special ed assistance was 1 hour a week online in a Zoom meeting with ONE teacher, not the 3-4 different ones he'd meet with throughout the week during the pre-COVID days.

He's struggling. A lot.

It's easy for many people to preach about "MY kids are doing just fine, I don't know why the rest of you are complaining." But just try putting yourself in the shoes of my BIL & SIL, who have fought almost all calendar year to get their son the extra help that he most desperately needs.