Are you for or against plastic shopping bag bans?

[kdonnel]

This article
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/09/711181385/are-plastic-bag-bans-garbage
was an interesting read about the effects of plastic shopping bag bans.

For example:

"What I found was that sales of garbage bags actually skyrocketed after plastic grocery bags were banned," she says. This was particularly the case for small, 4-gallon bags, which saw a 120 percent increase in sales after bans went into effect.

It turns out that people were very good at the reuse part of reduce, reuse, recycle mantra and tended to reuse those plastic bags. I didn't learn until recently that those are in order of effectiveness. You should reduce if possible, if not reuse, if not as a last option recycle.

Trash bags are thick and use more plastic than typical shopping bags. "So about 30 percent of the plastic that was eliminated by the ban comes back in the form of thicker garbage bags," Taylor says. On top of that, cities that banned plastic bags saw a surge in the use of paper bags, which she estimates resulted in about 80 million pounds of extra paper trash per year.

You know those reusable bags we should be using:

They estimate you would have to use an organic cotton bag 20,000 times more than a plastic grocery bag to make using it better for the environment.

Does anyone keep their reusable grocery bags around for 20,000 uses?

 

[EMom]

We use the bags for cat litter, so one reuse only. I'm not a fan of the ban. I'd just have to go buy small garbage bags for cat litter.

 

[neverlandsky]

Been using canvas bags for years. The plastic bags of today are not the same plastic bags of 20 years ago. Those plastic bags 20 years ago were thick. The ones today are extremely thin and rip so easily. I can’t even use 1 for my bathroom trash anymore because of this. I have to double them up to do so. Don’t mind the ban, yet straws are being banned as well. So we’ve adapted.

 

[gillep]

I worked in D.C. back in 2010 (I think that's correct it was just before we moved) when the ban went into effect for certain stores there and so I got used to bringing reusable bags when I knew I was shopping before coming home from work. Now I live in CA and I just bring reusable bags everywhere, farmers market, supermarket, mall, etc., not a big issue for me. I have had some of my reusable bags since 2010, others haven't fared as well. I can understand why some people are not in favor of the ban, and the articles bring up interesting points, but I have found it a pretty easy adjustment. Maybe people have better paper bags than the ones I have encountered but I hate them, the ones with handles always break and the ones without are not easy to carry, I would never choose to use a paper bag!

 

[Julie's Haircut]

My township banned single use plastic shopping bags back in December. They were never recyclable in my town. We reuse them once for kitty litter, dog poop, and lining the small trash cans in the bathrooms. We still have a fair amount that we stockpiled when the ban was announced six months before it went into effect.

When they run out I suppose we'll have to buy boxes of small trash bags. Or those rolls of dog poop bags. Or we always go to the neighboring towns and get some there, but there is talk of banning them countywide.

For the supermarket I bought cloth bags with the store logo. I think they have a thin plastic coating. Or you can pay 10 cents each for a heavy duty reusable plastic bag.

Target still has free paper bags with handles.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

I am against bans.
I use them for a number of things after I bring them home from the stores.
Our state is banning plastic bags next year... So what now I have to go to the store to BUY expensive plastic bags that I was getting for free?
If others don't want them then they could use paper or reusable and let me use the plastic ones.

 

[Jocelynaus]

.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I don't mind the ban personally, as my town already has it, and I'm used to bringing my own. (I have some with store logos, but also some really cute ones. )

But I see the point that it might not be saving the planet quite as much as we think.

 

[Imzadi]

We use the bags for cat litter, so one reuse only. I'm not a fan of the ban. I'd just have to go buy small garbage bags for cat litter.

EXACTLY!!! So not a fan. There are some items that need to have plastic bags to contain stuff. Either they are wet & mushy and a paper bag will not do. Or it is trash stuff that, again, needs to go into plastic bags to get rid of. And maintain integrity & strength LONGER than they will be in the trash bin outside. I can only think of how hard it will be for the trash pick up guys, now that paper bags will be poorly substituted for what used to be contained in plastic bags, as some people will be cheap and just use what they've been handed. For the rest of us, all this is doing is putting the expense on the consumer, for what we used to get INCLUDED when we shop. Similar to how we now have to pay for an airline meal.

The industry needs to create a biodegradable plastic bag. Trader Joes has one that is compostable, used for green veggies. (Doggie do & diaper bags are made out of it too.) But, it's too fragile. The material rips way to easily to be used as shopping bags. The first guy who is able to make a plastic, biodegradable, STURDY bag - meaning lasting a couple good (wet & tough) uses before it degrades, will be the next multi-billionaire.

 

[Floridaman999]

I use reusable bags simply because they're more convenient than dealing with the small plastic ones at the store. The plastic tears easy and they don't hold much. It's much easier for me to get things in the house with the larger, fabric bags. I really don't do it in an attempt to help the earth, but I guess I don't mind that I might be.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

From the same article the OP quoted.

"That said, the Danish government's estimate doesn't take into account the effects of bags littering land and sea, where plastic is clearly the worst offender."

A study purporting to show environmental impact that failed to take into account a major environmental impact comes out to 20,000 uses? hmmmmm.


"A 2011 study by the U.K. government found a person would have to reuse a cotton tote bag 131 times before it was better for climate change than using a plastic grocery bag"

Oh but wait. There's more.
Those studies were done on a per bag basis, and thus also didn't take into account that your average reusable bag can hold three times what the plastic bags do or that due to rips and the like, many of those plastic bags don't even get used once. So that 131 is knocked down to 43.

Oh but wait. There's even more. Those studies were for cotton reusable bags. Well I have reusable bags from several stores including four national grocery chains here in the states and guess what. They aren't made out of Cotton. So the 131 figure doesn't apply to them. They're made out of Polypropylene. They only require 11 uses on a per bag basis to be more environmentally friendly. And again taking into account their greater capacity, we're down to 4. Oh and these bags are recyclable when you can no longer use them.

So. Think you can use the reusable bag 4 times? I know I can. I'm well over 150 with mine that would easily beat the UK study even if they were cotton.

 

[mom2rtk]

We reuse our plastic bags (for cat litter and trash cans liners). If they ban them, we'll just end up buying small plastic bags, so no benefit to the planet. Just benefit to Wal-mart, who will be selling me bags now instead of giving them to me with my groceries inside.

 

[tink1970]

I am against plastic bags since I've seen what they do to marine life which is pertinent since sea turtles nest in our neck of the beach. I have several bags and often will just buy a few things and carry them in my hands without a bag (I live 2 blocks from the grocery store). The checkers know to not bag anything in plastic for me since they then get the "save the sea turtle lecture." I might not use a reusable bag 20,000 times but I definitely will use my hands and arms (I hope, anyway).

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Oh and am I in favor of banning the plastic ones? I'm undecided. I like to wrap meat in them so I don't get the liquid on my reusable bag, But I suppose I could buy cool pack bags for meats. On the ban em side, they always seem to roll around in the wind and cling to my hot manifold making my car stink for a couple of days. The guy in front of me. He gets away free. They always dodge his car and come right at mine.

Plastic bags blowing in the wind are just like the kid wearing healies at Disney. He'll lose control in Adventureland and smash into me in tomorrowland just about the time I thought it would be nice to just skip the seating and take my lunch outside.

 

[Imzadi]

If there is going to be a ban on plastic shopping bags, then there should also be a ban or surcharge on those millions of little Keurig plastic coffee pods. Since the invention, there has to be MILLIONS in the landfill already. I've been in Fortune 500 office buildings, where ONE floor can go through 75 pods in a DAY. These sky-rises are often 20 - 60 floors high. One plastic item shouldn't be surcharged, while millions of other unnecessary plastic other things are not being surcharged.

Can (general) you tell, I am on a rant about these plastic surcharge/bans.

 

[ImDMous]

We've had a ban in place for quite a while and we just have shopping bags in the car all the time. I haven't missed having them at home, but I have definitely notice that they aren't floating around on the road, stuck in shrubs along the highway or lining parking lots and fences. It really has made a difference in the amount of "roaming" plastic in town.
We use biodegradable doggie poop bags when we scoop our cat boxes and our small trash cans in the house just get dumped and occasionally rinsed if they need it. We have not been buying any extra plastic and any kind of promotional event anywhere will give you reusable bags to get their brand out there.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

If there is going to be a ban on plastic shopping bags, then there should also be a ban or surcharge on those millions of little Keurig plastic coffee pods. Since the invention, there has to be MILLIONS in the landfill already. I've been in Fortune 500 office buildings, where ONE floor can go through 75 pods in a DAY. These sky-rises are often 20 - 60 floors high. One plastic item shouldn't be surcharged, while millions of other unnecessary plastic other things are not being surcharged.

Can (general) you tell, I am on a rant about these plastic surcharge/bans.

Whatever happened to making a pot of coffee for the office?

 

[gillep]

EXACTLY!!! So not a fan. There are some items that need to have plastic bags to contain stuff. Either they are wet & mushy and a paper bag will not do. Or it is trash stuff that, again, needs to go into plastic bags to get rid of. And maintain integrity & strength LONGER than they will be in the trash bin outside. I can only think of how hard it will be for the trash pick up guys, now that paper bags will be poorly substituted for what used to be contained in plastic bags, as some people will be cheap and just use what they've been handed. For the rest of us, all this is doing is putting the expense on the consumer, for what we used to get INCLUDED when we shop. Similar to how we now have to pay for an airline meal.

The industry needs to create a biodegradable plastic bag. Trader Joes has one that is compostable, used for green veggies. (Doggie do & diaper bags are made out of it too.) But, it's too fragile. The material rips way to easily to be used as shopping bags. The first guy who is able to make a plastic, biodegradable, STURDY bag - meaning lasting a couple good (wet & tough) uses before it degrades, will be the next multi-billionaire.

I am sure that some people have had to purchase their reusable bags but I have not. Pretty much any festival or outdoor market or car show or whatever I have gone to has had people handing out reusable bags for free. Obviously, this isn't the case for everyone, but I have had zero reason to actually purchase any reusable bags unless I wanted to for some reason.

 

[DisLiss]

We do not have a ban here yet, and while we do use both reusable produce bags and reusable shopping bags, we do purposely use *some* plastic grocery bags specifically to reuse for other purposes. Years ago we used them to wrap around diapers when we were out and about with our kids when they were small, so as not to stink up the bathrooms of friends/family or public bathrooms or baby changing/nursing rooms any more than necessary. We also use them for wastepaper basket liners. In some case, like bedroom or office trash baskets, we'l keep the same grocery bag in there for weeks on end until something messy is put into the bag/basket. My parents use them for dog walk clean ups.

So yes, I can see where if they ban them, there will be some that will simply be replaced with purchased plastic bags. I imagine that for our "cleaner" waste paper baskets we'll look for reusable basket liners. I don't know what we'll do about the bathroom can. I dislike the idea of buying the trash basket size plastic bags, so maybe we'll just try washing the cans each week and try to impress upon the kids to be more careful about what they toss into those trash baskets.


HOWEVER, I do agree (and was already thinking about) some of Cannot Wait's above mentioned points.

My number 1 thought was that even if people are buying trash bags to use in place of grocery bags, they are better at not letting them fly out into the air and wind up in trees, gardens, lakes, streams, and oceans. Regular grocery bags fly all over the place---and in droves. I see plastic grocery bags and plastic grocery bag fragments all over the place. Especially near the oceans.

Also, in regards to reusable bags: we have mesh produce bags and the Polypropylene grocery bags from grocery stores. We've been using those Polypropylene ones every week (Once a week in the winter, and 2-3 times a week once the farmers markets open.) for years. (BTW..the farmers LOVE our reusable bags...they all comment on them. So yeah, way more than 131 uses.

I don't know exactly when we bought the bags we have now, but I do know years go by before they need to be replaced. I would guess we've had some 5 years, easily. (Actually, I checked...we have a few with jack-o-lanterns on them that we use all year for groceries and then our kids use for Trick-or-Treating as well, and I have a photo of the kids with those from 2013.) And the produce bags? Those I bought from Etsy, and I was able to check when we bought them.....March, 2010. And they're still going strong now in 2019. So it is possible and easy to use these bags hundreds of times.


So, yes, I think people do reuse the grocery bags quite a bit (And I think they recycle them well, too. The recycling bins at any of the stores I where I shop are always full.), BUT, their lightweight nature makes them fly away easily..either out of cars, the pockets of dog-walkers, open trash cans, etc., and I'm sure that's part of why they are such an environmental problem. Plus people may be apt to better hold on to bags they had to pay for, such as the small trash bags and the bags made for diapers or pet clean up. At the end of the day, we're (general society) not doing a good enough job overall of keeping the grocery bags where they belong and away from where they do not belong. So far that reason, I will be okay with a ban, because I understand the problem just isn't going away no matter how many people do try to reuse or recycle the bags.

 

[Hikergirl]

NY banned them (goes in to effect in 2020) so I'll just buy them from Amazon. I re-use them for many things so my consumption isn't going to go down because of it.
If I can find good quality biodegradable ones though I will get those.