Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[Maistre Gracey]

You are only possibly blocking a room from someone waiting to book according to the rules by booking a room you might want to use if the rest of your trip is available as you continue.

Yeah that doesn't sound so different. That sounds like walking, with extra steps

Okay, there is a 1/10000 chance due to unforeseen circumstances you may not use the room if you book from checkout day.
There is 100% chance you don’t have any intention to use the room if you walk.

Almost the same

 

[Tatebeck]

Okay, there is a 1/10000 chance due to unforeseen circumstances you may not use the room if you book from checkout day.
There is 100% chance you don’t have any intention to use the room if you walk.

Almost the same

Dishonestly misrepresenting and exaggerating numbers don't help make your point seem better.

Obviously it was higher than 1/10000 or they wouldn't have felt much of a need to change it.

And it obviously isn't 100% because there are always exceptions and some people may be walking only a few days and may be using some or even the majority of the days they booked early.

Just like they might when booking via check out date.

In both cases you are doing something that is technically against the rules as written, even though the booking system allows it to be done, in order to get a head start on booking your vacation ahead of other members. End of story

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Dishonestly misrepresenting and exaggerating numbers don't help make your point seem better.

Obviously it was higher than 1/10000 or they wouldn't have felt much of a need to change it.

And it obviously isn't 100% because there are always exceptions and some people may be walking only a few days and may be using some or even the majority of the days they booked early.

Just like they might when booking via check out date.

In both cases you are doing something that is technically against the rules as written, even though the booking system allows it to be done, in order to get a head start on booking your vacation ahead of other members. End of story

They did not change it for the reason people could not fulfill a reservation.

I booked under the old method for 10 years. Never could not complete a reservation.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Changing how reservations are made, changing how you can modify reservations, charging fees etc is going make a ton of “normal” DVC members very angry and it’s frankly unfair. I’m going to stick with fix the commercial renting problem and sit back and watch how walking becomes much less of an issue because it will not really be needed as much.

 

[emchen]

For those like me who were looking for a summary of potential viable solutions in one place, you’re welcome from me and Grok (X AI):

Here are three potential solutions to address the issue of "walking a DVC reservation":

1. **Implement a Reservation Modification Limit**:
- **Solution**: Introduce a limit on how many times a reservation can be modified within a certain period. For example, members could be allowed only a set number of modifications (e.g., three) per reservation. This would make it less feasible to "walk" a reservation, as continuously shifting the dates would not be allowed past that limit.
- **Rationale**: This approach would deter members from exploiting the system while still maintaining some flexibility for genuine changes in plans. It would help ensure that reservations reflect true intended use rather than speculative booking.

2. **Introduce a Fixed Reservation Start Date Window**:
- **Solution**: Establish a rule where reservations must be for a specific start date within a fixed window (e.g., within 7 days of booking) without allowing modifications to shift the start date. This would mean that once a reservation is made, the start date cannot be moved backward, only forward, and only within a specified period.
- **Rationale**: By fixing the start date, members would be less inclined to book rooms they don't plan to use just to secure availability, thereby making the system fairer for all members who genuinely want to book at specific times.

3. **Create a Priority Queue for Reservation Changes**:
- **Solution**: When members want to modify their reservation, instead of immediate changes, their request could enter a priority queue based on factors like membership length, number of points owned, or time since last modification. This would slow down the process of walking reservations, giving other members a chance to book newly available dates before modifications take effect.
- **Rationale**: This system would add a layer of fairness by ensuring that not only those who are constantly modifying their reservations get priority. It would also discourage frequent and strategic modifications by adding a wait time before changes can be processed.

These solutions, while speculative, are drawn from discussions and concerns raised on platforms like dvcfan.com regarding the DVC reservation system. Implementing any of these would require careful consideration of member feedback, operational feasibility, and maintaining the flexibility that makes DVC attractive to its members.

 

[emchen]

You guessed wrong as someone seems to be walking the room at the DVC Preview center for years now!!

I’ll bite, what is this about?

SSR was my first resale contract purchased in 2019 and its the first I heard about “the room at the DVC Preview center”!

 

[AstroBlasters]

I was thinking most of them are completely transparent, unless you're a walker, which is the whole idea.

To me, waiting for walkers to "walk on by" is the real PITA. Even more so when they don't walk on by, but stop on the dates you wanted.

Do you have an issue with walkers in the room categories you are looking at?

 

[eticketplease]

I’ll bite, what is this about?

SSR was my first resale contract purchased in 2019 and its the first I heard about “the room at the DVC Preview center”!

Sorry it was just a joke.

As @Sandisw pointed out SSR owners are not lining up to walk reservations. I just thought I would throw in some fun about the elusive rooms over at the preview center for when people tour the sample rooms.

They of course are not bookable no matter what window you are in.

 

[tx911]

Do you have an issue with walkers in the room categories you are looking at?

I've only been a member for a year

The first DVC reservation I ever made was for this past Thanksgiving week. I went to book at 8am on the nose 11 months out, and was unable to get the rooms I wanted. As a naive owner, this was very unexpected, as I had assumed when you were booking with home resort advantage there would be no issues. There's a thread I started about it somewhere.

Fortunately, it was folks walking rooms into December (at the time I didn't realize how desirable those early December weeks were). It worked out in the end, and that has been my only experience with walking. It was enough to make me strongly opposed to walking, which gives advantages by using the system in a way that it is not intended to be used (ie booking nights you don't plan on staying).

Since then, I have purchased a small number of points at VGC. I will be mostly if not exclusively booking studios there, so I'm sure I will have more experiences with walkers going forward.

I have always contended that if everyone walked, it would confer no advantage. Its only advantage comes because some do it while most others do not. I would love to see some modification to the system to make walking impossible, or at least so onerous that it's not worth the hassle.

 

[emchen]

Sorry it was just a joke.

As @Sandisw pointed out SSR owners are not lining up to walk reservations. I just thought I would throw in some fun about the elusive rooms over at the preview center for when people tour the sample rooms.

They of course are not bookable no matter what window you are in.

I am incredibly earnest when it comes to DVC. Probably a reflection of how complicated this product is!

 

[Nabas]

One thing is for sure, a lot more people walk than are willing to admit. All this talk of unintended consequences, when the irony is that walking IS the original unintended consequence.

IMO, you are underestimating the problem of commercial renters. There are a handful of locations that (for example) list many dozens of AKV Value rooms.

My guess is that commercial renters using bots are grabbing the most in-demand rooms and then walking them to the most financially lucrative times of year.

Get rid of commercial renters and their bots, and I’m guessing you will eliminate the majority of the problem.

 

[Sandisw]

Okay, there is a 1/10000 chance due to unforeseen circumstances you may not use the room if you book from checkout day.
There is 100% chance you don’t have any intention to use the room if you walk.

Almost the same

It’s about the intent of an owner to gain a bookong advantage for the days they want.

Booking day by day vs waiting until check out day to book them all like the rules stated allowed an owner to book some of their trip ahead of someone else.

Booking using walking vs waiting until to your actual check in day plus 7 allows an owner to book some of their trip ahead of someone else who waited.

Both were and are used to gain that advantage.

Personally, waking doesn’t bother me and neither would day by day.

However , no one was booking day by day with a check out day rule because it wasn’t of benefit to do so…

 

[Sandisw]

They did not change it for the reason people could not fulfill a reservation.

I booked under the old method for 10 years. Never could not complete a reservation.

They stated at the meetings that the day by day booking was a problem for owners, as that was not the intent of the booking rules and that is why it was changed.

So, I take them at their word.

Where we might agree is that people would be willing to accept the day by day work around to the rule because you are booking dates you want…

I think with how competitive the booking is my guess is you would have a lot more owners who would do day by day booking and not wait until check out day to book than currently walk

I choose not to walk but I would definitely do day by day to ensure I got all my nights.

 

[lowlight]

IMO, you are underestimating the problem of commercial renters. There are a handful of locations that (for example) list many dozens of AKV Value rooms.

My guess is that commercial renters using bots are grabbing the most in-demand rooms and then walking them to the most financially lucrative times of year.

Get rid of commercial renters and their bots, and I’m guessing you will eliminate the majority of the problem.

No, I agree with you. I’m sure spec renting is likely the majority, but not all, of the walking problem. The point remains that people have used walking as an unfair means to secure rooms ahead of the 11 month mark for a very long time and will continue to do so even if commercial renting is squashed. It’s a separate issue that need to be dealt with at the same time.

 

[BeachClub2014]

No, I agree with you. I’m sure spec renting is likely the majority, but not all, of the walking problem. The point remains that people have used walking as an unfair means to secure rooms ahead of the 11 month mark for a very long time and will continue to do so even if commercial renting is squashed. It’s a separate issue that need to be dealt with at the same time.

Agreed.

I've seen several comments that if DVC deals with commercial renting, the walking of reservations would go away. I don't think so. In my opinion, any reductions in reservation walking from commercial renters will be picked up by other owners.

We can't "unknow" something. Now that so many owners are privy to walking mechanics, it will be a thing until DVC changes that ability.

 

[Nabas]

No, I agree with you. I’m sure spec renting is likely the majority, but not all, of the walking problem. The point remains that people have used walking as an unfair means to secure rooms ahead of the 11 month mark for a very long time and will continue to do so even if commercial renting is squashed. It’s a separate issue that need to be dealt with at the same time.

I see your point.

I guess my bias is based on what’s been impacting me the most.

Walkers rarely impact me because (in my case) they tend to “walk over” the days I want. This means that although I cannot book the room I want at 11 months, I usually can get it at 10 months and 3 weeks.

There’s also the issue of very high demand seasons. For example, last year I had a heck of a time booking even an AKV Standard View room for early December 2024. This is not walkers and not commercial renters. These rooms did not magically open up 7 days later. They stayed booked and I got one weeks later through a waitlist. This is just a case of demand exceeding supply. IMO, Disney’s best solution to this is to again rebalance point charts.

But when I browse certain DVC rental sites, I see over 100 reservations at hard-to-book rooms (e.g. AKV Value). These rooms are going to end up being sold to non-DVC members.

I strongly believe that DVC is primarily for the benefit of DVC members, their families, and friends. I’m greatly bothered by commercial renters apparently violating the terms of the contracts they signed to line their pockets.

Remember, walking is not a violation of the contract we all signed. However, commercial renting is.

First fix the problem with those who are violating the contract and then see what other issues need to be addressed.

 

[Sandisw]

I see your point.

I guess my bias is based on what’s been impacting me the most.

Walkers rarely impact me because (in my case) they tend to “walk over” the days I want. This means that although I cannot book the room I want at 11 months, I usually can get it at 10 months and 3 weeks.

There’s also the issue of very high demand seasons. For example, last year I had a heck of a time booking even an AKV Standard View room for early December 2024. This is not walkers and not commercial renters. These rooms did not magically open up 7 days later. They stayed booked and I got one weeks later through a waitlist. This is just a case of demand exceeding supply. IMO, Disney’s best solution to this is to again rebalance point charts.

But when I browse certain DVC rental sites, I see over 100 reservations at hard-to-book rooms (e.g. AKV Value). These rooms are going to end up being sold to non-DVC members.

I strongly believe that DVC is primarily for the benefit of DVC members, their families, and friends. I’m greatly bothered by commercial renters apparently violating the terms of the contracts they signed to line their pockets.

Remember, walking is not a violation of the contract we all signed. However, commercial renting is.

First fix the problem with those who are violating the contract and then see what other issues need to be addressed.

With certain room types, even if walking is curbed or stopped, there will continue to be booking issues.

I see that as a third issue

Walking at a resort where it’s not noticed or even impactful…because people who want rooms end up with them by waiting a few days or waitlisting,

I have to wonder if what we will see is a combination of changes to address booking rules in general but also ones specific to those hard to get rooms.

I do agree that if they decide to crack down on renting and the more I process things, I have adjusted my thinking that the changes are going to hit the average owner who rents too because they may make the definition of commercial pretty easy to reach.

It will be an interesting 2025!

 

[Nabas]

With certain room types, even if walking is curbed or stopped, there will continue to be booking issues.

I see that as a third issue

Walking at a resort where it’s not noticed or even impactful…because people who want rooms end up with them by waiting a few days or waitlisting,

I have to wonder if what we will see is a combination of changes to address booking rules in general but also ones specific to those hard to get rooms.

I do agree that if they decide to crack down on renting and the more I process things, I have adjusted my thinking that the changes are going to hit the average owner who rents too because they may make the definition of commercial pretty easy to reach.

It will be an interesting 2025!

I am hopeful that Disney is not going to go after the DVC member with, say, 1000 points and rents out 500 of them to pay for their dues. As I recall, Disney was actively encouraging this thing at one point.

Instead, I am hopeful that they chase after what I suspect is a handful of “super renters” who are renting many thousands of points every year. I suspect it’s these super renters and their bots that have made it extremely difficult to get certain categories of rooms.

 

[Bearval]

It’s hard to quantify it with tangible metrics since we don’t have access to that information. Disney does, though. I can say that it “feels” to have gotten considerably worse the past two years. The increase in spec renting is either causation or correlation, only Disney knows that answer, but again it “feels” like it is causation.

I hope they can come up with a solution to both, but just solving walking is huge win. I’m not sure how they can solve it, but I don’t work for DVC so that doesn’t concern me.

They could limit the number of times you can "drop" the 1st day of the reservation before you have to cancel and try to rebook the whole reservation. As an example you can only drop the "first" day once or twice. This would still allow you to add days to you trip but would stop people from "walking" for weeks/months.

 

[DVC Deac]

I’m going to stick with fix the commercial renting problem and sit back and watch how walking becomes much less of an issue because it will not really be needed as much.

Mostly this. Address the problems one at a time. First, solve the commercial renting issue and see what impact, if any, it has on walking. If walking if still a problem, then work on a solution for that issue.

Candidly, I have no faith that either is going to be adequately addressed, if addressed at all.