Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[tx911]

I am hopeful that Disney is not going to go after the DVC member with, say, 1000 points and rents out 500 of them to pay for their dues. As I recall, Disney was actively encouraging this thing at one point.

Instead, I am hopeful that they chase after what I suspect is a handful of “super renters” who are renting many thousands of points every year. I suspect it’s these super renters and their bots that have made it extremely difficult to get certain categories of rooms.

I understand this thought, but I would argue that is still commercial use of the points. You are renting them expressly to make money to cover dues.

I do agree they should go after the heavy hitters first and foremost.

I remain skeptical that addressing commercial renting will have a major effect on walking by the others using the points for vacation purposes.

 

[Sandisw]

I am hopeful that Disney is not going to go after the DVC member with, say, 1000 points and rents out 500 of them to pay for their dues. As I recall, Disney was actively encouraging this thing at one point.

Instead, I am hopeful that they chase after what I suspect is a handful of “super renters” who are renting many thousands of points every year. I suspect it’s these super renters and their bots that have made it extremely difficult to get certain categories of rooms.

I hope not but the more I think about it some od the things I thought they would not do are worrisome to me that they will.

The rental market in general has exploded because of the ease to rent so while there may be only a handful of heavy duty renters, I now have a nagging feeling that people like you mention might get rules they aren’t a fan of.

For example, where I once thought advertising on FB or the DIS would never be touched, I am just not so sure anymore.

The one thing I am 99% confident in is that whatever DVC does it will include elements that people won’t like when it comes to the line beteeen commercial and personal renting.

I think the old saying of be careful what you wish for may come true.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

It’s about the intent of an owner to gain a bookong advantage for the days they want.

Booking day by day vs waiting until check out day to book them all like the rules stated allowed an owner to book some of their trip ahead of someone else.

Booking using walking vs waiting until to your actual check in day plus 7 allows an owner to book some of their trip ahead of someone else who waited.

Both were and are used to gain that advantage.

Personally, waking doesn’t bother me and neither would day by day.

However , no one was booking day by day with a check out day rule because it wasn’t of benefit to do so…

There is no advantage. That’s why they had that system in the first place.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to have a booking advantage.
At opening of booking, every room is open.
Want to stay the 12th? On the morning of the 13th every room is open, and everyone has exact equal chance to get that room. No advantage for anyone.

 

[jcolvin5]

No, I agree with you. I’m sure spec renting is likely the majority, but not all, of the walking problem. The point remains that people have used walking as an unfair means to secure rooms ahead of the 11 month mark for a very long time and will continue to do so even if commercial renting is squashed. It’s a separate issue that need to be dealt with at the same time.

That's perception speaking. There is nothing "unfair" about it. There just isn't. And the reason that it cannot be discussed as "unfair" is because everyone CAN do it if they choose.

 

[tx911]

That's perception speaking. There is nothing "unfair" about it. There just isn't. And the reason that it cannot be discussed as "unfair" is because everyone CAN do it if they choose.

This is where I disagree with some others.

Regardless of the fact that everyone could do it, everyone doesn't do it. In fact I suspect the vast majority do not.

Let's at least admit that walking only works because most owners don't do it, and it is done for the express purpose of gaining an advantage over other members. Whether that meets your definition of "unfair", I think it's wrong.

 

[jcolvin5]

This is where I disagree with some others.

Regardless of the fact that everyone could do it, everyone doesn't do it. In fact I suspect the vast majority do not.

Let's at least admit that walking only works because most owners don't do it, and it is done for the express purpose of gaining an advantage over other members. Whether that meets your definition of "unfair", I think it's wrong.

Wrong" can be defined as "unjust, dishonest or immoral". Again, that's your perception and I respect that. I disagree completely by the term, but I respect all owner opinions.

 

[jcolvin5]

Full disclaimer: I actually don't care about walking at all. Maybe I just enjoy playing devil's advocate on this one.

Throughout this thread I've now seen "cheating", "unfair", "wrong". All of those being based on opinion, not fact. Now if you said unethical, at least it could be debated in court.

We don't NEED to walk a reservation, but would do so if I thought that would guarantee me the dates that I want. We only stay in 1BRs or above, so the only time I can see myself doing this is for AKL CL. But if Disney doesn't fix it, then it's an opportunity for all owners to use or not use.

 

[Nabas]

That's perception speaking. There is nothing "unfair" about it. There just isn't. And the reason that it cannot be discussed as "unfair" is because everyone CAN do it if they choose.

Yeah, I have to admit that walking is “fair” because it’s available to all DVC members.

I even get it. If someone can only go only on specific dates, then I understand why they’d go through the extra effort of walking. If I only can use my points during (for example) spring break, then I’m going to do everything I can to get those dates.

With my children grown, I have a lot of flexibility, so walkers affect me less. I can just be a bit patient and wait for a walker to walk over the dates I want. Or I can switch my travel dates.

Still, it’s supply and demand. If there are 100 rooms available for a specific date and 110 DVC members want them, then there will be 10 unhappy DVC members no matter what Disney does.

 

[Sandisw]

There is no advantage. That’s why they had that system in the first place.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to have a booking advantage.
At opening of booking, every room is open.
Want to stay the 12th? On the morning of the 13th every room is open, and everyone has exact equal chance to get that room. No advantage for anyone.

Then why did owners do day by day and not wait until their actual check out date if there was no advantage to do it?

If my check out day is the 13th, yes, the night of the 12th has every room open…but what about if I want to stay the 11th and the 12th…is the 11th still fully available on the 13th, my real check out day?

Nope because those who pretended their check out was the 12th, booked the 11th already, even though they aren’t checking out the 12th and plan to book that too.

Now, I’d DVC makes the rule book one day at a time, whether it’s check in or check out, then it gives no advantage.

You simply are missing the point that the rule was you book ALL your nights based on actual check out and not book each day on it own.

 

[tx911]

Full disclaimer: I actually don't care about walking at all. Maybe I just enjoy playing devil's advocate on this one.

Throughout this thread I've now seen "cheating", "unfair", "wrong". All of those being based on opinion, not fact. Now if you said unethical, at least it could be debated in court.

We don't NEED to walk a reservation, but would do so if I thought that would guarantee me the dates that I want. We only stay in 1BRs or above, so the only time I can see myself doing this is for AKL CL. But if Disney doesn't fix it, then it's an opportunity for all owners to use or not use.

I 100% agree that it is opinion.

For me, it's like countless other areas of life, quite commonly seen at WDW in fact, where people do things for their own gain at the expense of others. It's human nature, I suppose.

 

[BeachClub2014]

That's perception speaking. There is nothing "unfair" about it. There just isn't. And the reason that it cannot be discussed as "unfair" is because everyone CAN do it if they choose.

"Unfair" is a matter of semantics, I grant that. However, it's also a tad disingenuous to say that all owners can walk a reservation if they choose to when not all know they can. How to walk a reservation is not included in any official DVC literature, so owners who have discovered the secret of reservation walking have the advantage over those who don't.

The playing field is not even in that regard.

 

[Sandisw]

This is where I disagree with some others.

Regardless of the fact that everyone could do it, everyone doesn't do it. In fact I suspect the vast majority do not.

Let's at least admit that walking only works because most owners don't do it, and it is done for the express purpose of gaining an advantage over other members. Whether that meets your definition of "unfair", I think it's wrong.

There are really two different concepts here. The intent of the booking rules and the actual rules.

The intent is that everyone is choosing the date they really want to go but the system is blind and doesn’t stop someone who may be pretending they will check in that day.

The system is fair because everyone can do it, regardless it achieves it goal or not, or whether people are aware of what the rules are for medication

The real question is whether the booking rules as they exist now should be different because of the impact of walking.

Some say yes, others say no because the fix to walking will come with modification limits that could end up impacting situations that are not walking

Hence why I think DVC hasn’t rushed into updating booking and modification rules. They are aware that any action will have a reaction.

They have to decide what reaction they are willing to support and one that that will get the least resistance from owners in general.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Then why did owners do day by day and not wait until their actual check out date if there was no advantage to do it?

If my check out day is the 13th, yes, the night of the 12th has every room open…but what about if I want to stay the 11th and the 12th…is the 11th still fully available on the 13th, my real check out day?

Nope because those who pretended their check out was the 12th, booked the 11th already, even though they aren’t checking out the 12th and plan to book that too.

Now, I’d DVC makes the rule book one day at a time, whether it’s check in or check out, then it gives no advantage.

You simply are missing the point that the rule was you book ALL your nights based on actual check out and not book each day on it own.

Most did wait until the true check out date to book. Just the hard reservations members did day by day.
The point is, if you wanted to stay the 12th, everyone had equal opportunity to book that room on the 13th. No advantage for anyone.
That said, if you waited until the 20th to book the 12th it may be gone.

 

[Sandisw]

Most did wait until the true check out date to book. Just the hard reservations members did day by day.
The point is, if you wanted to stay the 12th, everyone had equal opportunity to book that room on the 13th. No advantage for anyone.
That said, if you waited until the 20th to book the 12th it may be gone.

Which is simply the point some of us were making. If you did day by day instead of waiting until the check out day, which was the rule, chances of getting a room for days earlier in your trip were higher.

Again, according to the board, many owners were indeed doing day by day and not waiting once they realized it increased ones chances to get every day of your trip.

 

[Disdreaming479]

It seems as though DVC can address this behind the scenes with “members” walking long distances or month after month. Short walks cannot possibly be the issue here. The commercial renters that are exiting the system are possibly the real problem here with the system. If a solution requires 8 paragraphs to describe and/ or $$ spent that is just too complicated and unnecessary.

 

[lowlight]

Full disclaimer: I actually don't care about walking at all. Maybe I just enjoy playing devil's advocate on this one.

Throughout this thread I've now seen "cheating", "unfair", "wrong". All of those being based on opinion, not fact. Now if you said unethical, at least it could be debated in court.

We don't NEED to walk a reservation, but would do so if I thought that would guarantee me the dates that I want. We only stay in 1BRs or above, so the only time I can see myself doing this is for AKL CL. But if Disney doesn't fix it, then it's an opportunity for all owners to use or not use.

I will forever stop talking about this topic, in fact, to the pleasure of many I will delete my account and never visit these boards again, if you can show me in the contract where it mentions walking as a recommended and supported method of achieving a first come first served 11 month booking. Until you do, the only “opinion” on anything is yours. DVC has already listed the rules, they specifically mention what time and what date you can log on to make a home resort reservation. We aren’t 10, something doesn’t have to be explicitly listed as against the rules to understand you are in violation of the spirit of the rules. Some people found an unintended loophole to exploit, cheat, wrongly, AND unfairly book those rooms before 11 months. That the cheat is available to all is a moot point. I said it earlier in this thread- put a tutorial on the booking page and show everyone how to walk a reservation, tell them it’s encouraged and allowed, and the system will melt down and I’ll throw the greatest “I told ya so” party you’ve ever seen.

If you had a venn diagram of walkers, many would also be looped into “twenty extra hard to get ADRs that I will cancel two hours before” and “Fastpass abusers” circles. Being that guy is always great, being in the vicinity of that guy is terrible. I’ll have my finger on the account delete button when you show me the facts in the contract.

 

[jcolvin5]

DVC has already listed the rules, they specifically mention what time and what date you can log on to make a home resort reservation.

Do they? Where can I find this explicit restriction of "walking"?

I'm a rule follower by nature. If Disney sent out information saying that they do not want owners "walking" reservations. I wouldn't do it, ever.

 

[lowlight]

Do they? Where can I find this explicit restriction of "walking"?

I'm a rule follower by nature. If Disney sent out information saying that they do not want owners "walking" reservations. I wouldn't do it, ever.

Devil’s advocate is a great position to take, but it requires a deft hand to pull off and not veer into the contrarian position lane. Both hands on the wheel and I will be happy to discuss.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Do they? Where can I find this explicit restriction of "walking"?

I'm a rule follower by nature. If Disney sent out information saying that they do not want owners "walking" reservations. I wouldn't do it, ever.

That's the problem. Walking is technically within the current rules, but it's unfair to those owners who haven't learned the secret squirrel handshake.

It is my hope that you will soon get the explicit restriction you requested for walking from DVC.

 

[jcolvin5]

Devil’s advocate is a great position to take, but it requires a deft hand to pull off and not veer into the contrarian position lane. Both hands on the wheel and I will be happy to discuss.

I don't think most of the public is wrong. I simply have not seen proof that they are correct in their perceptions.