Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[Sandisw]

Well it is different because with booking from check out you can book as many days as you like (if they’re open). Booking forward opens it up to walking.

Walking only works because we get the plus 7. If DVC makes it day by day booking, then there is no walking.

I get going back to the old way stops walking, I am not sure that it would make booking better for owners.

Let’s not forget that when walkers walk on by, the rooms do open for those who want them unless it’s a supply issue.

Putting in a waitlist or just waiting a few days gets you the room

So, either system requires someone to make a choice. It’s just a matter of how one sees it.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Walking only works because we get the plus 7. If DVC makes it day by day booking, then there is no walking.

I get going back to the old way stops walking, I am not sure that it would make booking better for owners.

Let’s not forget that when walkers walk on by, the rooms do open for those who want them unless it’s a supply issue.

Putting in a waitlist or just waiting a few days gets you the room

So, either system requires someone to make a choice. It’s just a matter of how one sees it.

No… booking backward from check out does not require day by day booking. Some may choose to do so for hard to get reservations.
If you want an August 13 checking out August 25 reservation, you are welcome to book the entire thing on Sept 25. If it’s during a holiday, you have the option to day by day it (in reverse). But… everyone has a fair chance. No days will be booked by members who do not intend to use them.

 

[lowlight]

There are plenty of relatively "easy" things they could do to combat both commercial renters and walking, its just a debate about which ones will have zero (or the least) amount of trade offs

Some examples from a combo of this thread and my brain. Let me know if you love/hate any and why!

1. Limit the number of free modifications until a fee is incurred or reservation must be a cancel and rebook (from upthread)
2. Modify the booking system so that it simply does not allow the member booking to continue pushing the start date forward beyond the 11 month window (my idea, which was limiting walking to 7 or 14 days max before only extension is allowed, no dropping starting days unless the dates are available for everyone and in the 11+7) I still like this one because it only affects walkers.
3. When modifying a booking, have the system not show your current booked room as an option when specifically changing the check-in date to a later day. They could show only the availability and booking options that everyone else can see without the pre-booked, locked down room they are trying to modify forward. If the room isn't available in the system for everyone to book at 11+7 then it won't allow you to drop start dates. Maybe then it could let you drop starting dates once your entire reservation is within the 11 month window, when the room is no longer locked down by that member and can no longer have starting dates dropped AND extend ending days, only drop starting days (unless the room is still available to everyone else of course). This would technically limit walking to 30 days or whatever the max length of stay is.
4. After a certain number of modifications, make it so a lead guest name change is no longer allowed (unless it is just a different member on the membership contract). This would stop walking that turns into spec renting. (a new idea I just had)
5. Special season list. After reading into it I am still not sure this would work that well. If it only applies to certain rooms and periods, I am sure the commercial renters, savvy members, etc would just put their requests in as soon as possible since it is still a FCFS system and still get what they want more often than the average member. This would cause members to have to plan 15 months ahead of time, which is ridiculous for the average member, and someone planning to rent a reservation would be more confident that the dates they choose would be used when getting on the special list than an honest member looking to book for their single family. And after all that the commercial renters would just move any extra points not used in the special season list into the next cheapest room type during the next most popular seasons, and we are back to having issues, unless it bothers them so much that they get out of the rental game.
6. If they get rid of walking into the 11+7 window, they could think about adding a new universal preemptive waitlist system so everyone can put in a limited number of requests ahead of the 11 month window and the system automatically tries to book that trip for you at the 11+7 window. It could be done as a lottery between all the requests or as FCFS though I think lottery would work better personally. This could help prevent bots from booking at the 11+7 right on the dot, or could help users with slow computers or internet connections as well. This would not work if walking is allowed as those rooms would already be unavailable at the 11+7 window. I guess this is similar to the special season option, but is a bit of a twist.
7. The simplest of all would be DVC just coming out with a statement saying that modifying is staying flexible and as-is but they reserve the right to cancel reservations if they feel like a member is using the system to specifically get dates further out than 11+7 as intended in the member documents. They could put a specific number of days they feel is normal to modify forward, or a certain number of reservations it could be done to during a use year, or they could just keep it ambiguous to scare renters and leave themselves leeway. (note: I think somebody upthread was alluding to something like this as well, and I really like this one too)

Yes, number 7 is the same as my idea from earlier. I don’t see how it wouldn’t work, it’s easy to enforce, it’s self policing, and it doesn’t affect members who don’t walk at all.

 

[TCRAIG]

All these ‘solutions’ seem (to me) to be more of a PITA than just waiting for the walkers to walk on by and release the date(s) you want and book online at 10months 29 days even if you have to do it day by day - Member Svcs can always combine into 1 reservation when you’ve got all your days…

 

[tx911]

All these ‘solutions’ seem (to me) to be more of a PITA than just waiting for the walkers to walk on by and release the date(s) you want and book online at 10months 29 days even if you have to do it day by day - Member Svcs can always combine into 1 reservation when you’ve got all your days…

I was thinking most of them are completely transparent, unless you're a walker, which is the whole idea.

To me, waiting for walkers to "walk on by" is the real PITA. Even more so when they don't walk on by, but stop on the dates you wanted.

 

[Sandisw]

No… booking backward from check out does not require day by day booking. Some may choose to do so for hard to get reservations.
If you want an August 13 checking out August 25 reservation, you are welcome to book the entire thing on Sept 25. If it’s during a holiday, you have the option to day by day it (in reverse). But… everyone has a fair chance. No days will be booked by members who do not intend to use them.

I don’t think I am being clear. If the rule is you can book 11 months from your check out day, and people are booking 11 months from check in day and doing day by day, they are getting days ahead of the intended 11 month window.

IMO, wanting the actual days doesn’t change the fact that you are getting rooms ahead of time because you are pretending it’s your check out when it’s not.

That is part of why some don’t like walking…you are pretending it is your check in day when it’s not.
People booking day by day in a system that opens the window on check out day are now pretending it’s a check out day when it’s not.

Both situations allow someone to grab rooms ahead of someone else who follows the rule.

Its just a matter of deciding if someone actually wanting those rooms is enough of a reason to be okay with someone grabbing rooms early and violating the intent of the rule..

 

[lowlight]

All these ‘solutions’ seem (to me) to be more of a PITA than just waiting for the walkers to walk on by and release the date(s) you want and book online at 10months 29 days even if you have to do it day by day - Member Svcs can always combine into 1 reservation when you’ve got all your days…

I’m playing by the first come first serve rules, why should I have to piecemeal my vacation together? I did it for the trip I just got home from and promised myself never again. I actually priced out the instant sell offer for my contracts the other day and then I read DVC may actually go after walking and commercial renters so maybe I’ll see what they do first.

 

[bdrex28]

Haha Do you really think DVC would not hold the owner responsible no matter what happens ?
The owner is always responsible and don’t waste time thinking it can be anything different from all legal possibilities.
Only one of the reasons why I would never rent.
Not worth it.

And I plan to continue walking because we have no other choice currently .
Hope they do not remove that.

So you feel you have no choice but to walk?

I'm sorry but I truly don't understand that. Why would you have no choice?

 

[Mirabell Rose]

you wouldn’t have to charge a fee for ‘excessive’ changes to stop walking. All you would need to do is charge a fee/point deduction for the cancellation of days booked beyond the 11 month or 7 month window. So you book a week with the first day at the 11 month mark and the other six days into the more than 11 month mark. If you want to cancel any of those six days down the road, you lose 10% of the points for that day. If you don’t want to run the risk of not being able to cancel without a penalty, wait until those days are in the 11 month mark.

I am fine with eliminating walking and commercial renting. But DVC needs to take their share of the blame. To sell a contract that lets you believe you have a reasonable chance at a certain level of rooms, like value at AKV, when given the statistics they have available to know how many can never do so, is not honest sales. Might even be fraud. Although something happened in the last 5 or so years that made AKV values go from hard to pretty much impossible. They (DVC) also have control over how they spread the points. If the values are always gone immediately, those should be more points and others less. Same with some of the other really hard to get rooms.

I also don’t think everyone has the same shot at these rooms given the software and such that some have available over others. I keep looking at BLT and Poly for a buy, but I can’t stand the different room levels. I really don’t know how to budget what I need. When I bought SSR, I knew what I needed. They can change seasons some, but other than now having reg/prefer, I can reasonably budget

 

[Genie+]

There are plenty of relatively "easy" things they could do to combat both commercial renters and walking, its just a debate about which ones will have zero (or the least) amount of trade offs

Some examples from a combo of this thread and my brain. Let me know if you love/hate any and why!

1. Limit the number of free modifications until a fee is incurred or reservation must be a cancel and rebook (from upthread)
2. Modify the booking system so that it simply does not allow the member booking to continue pushing the start date forward beyond the 11 month window (my idea, which was limiting walking to 7 or 14 days max before only extension is allowed, no dropping starting days unless the dates are available for everyone and in the 11+7) I still like this one because it only affects walkers.
3. When modifying a booking, have the system not show your current booked room as an option when specifically changing the check-in date to a later day. They could show only the availability and booking options that everyone else can see without the pre-booked, locked down room they are trying to modify forward. If the room isn't available in the system for everyone to book at 11+7 then it won't allow you to drop start dates. Maybe then it could let you drop starting dates once your entire reservation is within the 11 month window, when the room is no longer locked down by that member and can no longer have starting dates dropped AND extend ending days, only drop starting days (unless the room is still available to everyone else of course). This would technically limit walking to 30 days or whatever the max length of stay is.
4. After a certain number of modifications, make it so a lead guest name change is no longer allowed (unless it is just a different member on the membership contract). This would stop walking that turns into spec renting. (a new idea I just had)
5. Special season list. After reading into it I am still not sure this would work that well. If it only applies to certain rooms and periods, I am sure the commercial renters, savvy members, etc would just put their requests in as soon as possible since it is still a FCFS system and still get what they want more often than the average member. This would cause members to have to plan 15 months ahead of time, which is ridiculous for the average member, and someone planning to rent a reservation would be more confident that the dates they choose would be used when getting on the special list than an honest member looking to book for their single family. And after all that the commercial renters would just move any extra points not used in the special season list into the next cheapest room type during the next most popular seasons, and we are back to having issues, unless it bothers them so much that they get out of the rental game.
6. If they get rid of walking into the 11+7 window, they could think about adding a new universal preemptive waitlist system so everyone can put in a limited number of requests ahead of the 11 month window and the system automatically tries to book that trip for you at the 11+7 window. It could be done as a lottery between all the requests or as FCFS though I think lottery would work better personally. This could help prevent bots from booking at the 11+7 right on the dot, or could help users with slow computers or internet connections as well. This would not work if walking is allowed as those rooms would already be unavailable at the 11+7 window. I guess this is similar to the special season option, but is a bit of a twist.
7. The simplest of all would be DVC just coming out with a statement saying that modifying is staying flexible and as-is but they reserve the right to cancel reservations if they feel like a member is using the system to specifically get dates further out than 11+7 as intended in the member documents. They could put a specific number of days they feel is normal to modify forward, or a certain number of reservations it could be done to during a use year, or they could just keep it ambiguous to scare renters and leave themselves leeway. (note: I think somebody upthread was alluding to something like this as well, and I really like this one too)

2. Modify the booking system so that it simply does not allow the member booking to continue pushing the start date forward beyond the 11 month window (my idea, which was limiting walking to 7 or 14 days max before only extension is allowed, no dropping starting days unless the dates are available for everyone and in the 11+7) I still like this one because it only affects walkers.

3. When modifying a booking, have the system not show your current booked room as an option when specifically changing the check-in date to a later day. They could show only the availability and booking options that everyone else can see without the pre-booked, locked down room they are trying to modify forward. If the room isn't available in the system for everyone to book at 11+7 then it won't allow you to drop start dates. Maybe then it could let you drop starting dates once your entire reservation is within the 11 month window, when the room is no longer locked down by that member and can no longer have starting dates dropped AND extend ending days, only drop starting days (unless the room is still available to everyone else of course). This would technically limit walking to 30 days or whatever the max length of stay is.

^ I especially like these two. Not hard to implement or explain. 11 month reservations can’t be rolled, just as it stands now if you were trying to move one room category to another room category while moving dates. Changes can still be made just the walking advantage is removed. There doesn’t need to be an exception for same room type, that it’s able to be walked if someone needs to change dates.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I don’t think I am being clear. If the rule is you can book 11 months from your check out day, and people are booking 11 months from check in day and doing day by day, they are getting days ahead of the intended 11 month window.

IMO, wanting the actual days doesn’t change the fact that you are getting rooms ahead of time because you are pretending it’s your check out when it’s not.

That is part of why some don’t like walking…you are pretending it is your check in day when it’s not.
People booking day by day in a system that opens the window on check out day are now pretending it’s a check out day when it’s not.

Both situations allow someone to grab rooms ahead of someone else who follows the rule.

Its just a matter of deciding if someone actually wanting those rooms is enough of a reason to be okay with someone grabbing rooms early and violating the intent of the rule..

Perhaps we are not communicating, or perhaps you are not understanding….
It’s impossible to get ahead with booking in reverse. You are booking backwards from checkout day. If you are scheduled to check out on the 12th, but really want to check out on the 13th, than 11 months prior to the 13th you book the night of the 12th.

 

[Tatebeck]

Perhaps we are not communicating, or perhaps you are not understanding….
It’s impossible to get ahead with booking in reverse. You are booking backwards from checkout day. If you are scheduled to check out on the 12th, but really want to check out on the 13th, than 11 months prior to the 13th you book the night of the 12th.

I would think that most members would not sit and wait for their entire trip to be in the window before booking something.

Adding to your example, members wanting to book the 6th through the 13th would likely book a smaller trip earlier to guarantee they had at least part of their dates, then add more as it got close, possibly every day. By the time booking opened up for a check out day for the 13th, some dates between the 6th and 13th could be unavailable and anyone who waited may be out of luck.

In a weird way it would also benefit shorter stays over longer stays.

It's a different, and arguably even more annoying kind of walking

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I would think that most members would not sit and wait for their entire trip to be in the window before booking something.

Adding to your example, members wanting to book the 6th through the 13th would likely book a smaller trip earlier to guarantee they had at least part of their dates, then add more as it got close, possibly every day. By the time booking opened up for a check out day for the 13th, some dates between the 6th and 13th could be unavailable and anyone who waited may be out of luck.

In a weird way it would also benefit shorter stays over longer stays.

It's a different, and arguably even more annoying kind of walking

Right… and trips that are tough to book *can be* booked one day at a time.
I used to book some trips day by day. Everyone had a fair chance, as when booking opened on the 13th, there were zero rooms booked for the night of the 12th. (Prior to fixed weeks)

 

[Sandisw]

Thoughts on this…maybe mentioned before?

DVC changes booming to 11 months plus 14 days. Modificatons before the 10 month mark are limited to shortening dates, but you can not add until you are at the 10 month mark.

This allows for those who book longer trips to do so from the start but curbs walking.

It allows people who might need to flex some dates in the first few weeks to do so, but doesn’t put limits on modifications 10 months or less.

 

[Tatebeck]

Right… and trips that are tough to book *can be* booked one day at a time.
I used to book some trips day by day. Everyone had a fair chance, as when booking opened on the 13th, there were zero rooms booked for the night of the 12th. (Prior to fixed weeks)

Just like people can walk a reservation now for trips that may be harder to book. In both cases people are booking days beforehand to get an advantage on booking the full trip they like. Booking via checkout day only makes you have to update more often and it really just pushes the problem back a week or so

 

[Tatebeck]

Thoughts on this…maybe mentioned before?

DVC changes booming to 11 months plus 14 days. Modificatons before the 10 month mark are limited to shortening dates, but you can not add until you are at the 10 month mark.

This allows for those who book longer trips to do so from the start but curbs walking.

It allows people who might need to flex some dates in the first few weeks to do so, but doesn’t put limits on modifications 10 months or less.

Sounds like it could work. Pretty similar to options #2 and #3 from my long post. Probably option #3 by the sound of it

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Just like people can walk a reservation now for trips that may be harder to book. In both cases people are booking days beforehand to get an advantage on booking the full trip they like. Booking via checkout day only makes you have to update more often and it really just pushes the problem back a week or so

No. Booking in reverse, NOBODY can get an advantage.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The booking in reverse worked great with DVC for many years.

There were two issues that come to mind:

1) Prior to online booking, MS could get busy if members opted to book day by day.
2) West coasters did not want to get up at 0600 every day if they opted to book day by day.

Other than that, it’s flawless.

 

[Tatebeck]

No. Booking in reverse, NOBODY can get an advantage.

Nobody gets an advantage for each single day, but they do get a sort of advantage if they start booking the trip earlier. Having 6 out of 7 days already booked when the last day rolls around is an advantage over having 0 days booked and hoping that none of the previous 6 days have filled up when going to book all at once at the window. You get a better chance at availability for the full trip you want the sooner you start to book, similar to current walking, it's just not as "guaranteed" as the current walking system.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Nobody gets an advantage for each single day, but they do get a sort of advantage if they start booking the trip earlier. Having 6 out of 7 days already booked when the last day rolls around is an advantage over having 0 days booked and hoping that none of the previous 6 days have filled up when going to book all at once at the window. You get a better chance at availability for the full trip you want the sooner you start to book, similar to current walking.

It’s not an advantage if the opportunity is there for everyone.