Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[crvetter]

For 11 month bookings:

You can’t move your checkin day until stay length +1 day. If you wanted to move that checkin day 3 days forward, cancel and come back when the 11 month window opens.

This correction would only apply to any reservation booked exactly at 11 months and revolves around check-in day. You can add/remove days from the end just as the current system allows. Just no walking it. If your plans change shortly after booking and you need to move a check-in day forward, no problem. Try again at the 11 month mark.

So you can’t ever move your check in day? That’s the part I’m unclear about. Or you can’t move it until some window/time has passed?

The former is a serious limitation a lot of people won’t like. I for one would be upset, not that I need to change my checkin but it be upsetting to waste points if I did and could only cancel and rebook.

The latter isn’t reducing walking completely. It just gives larger point contracts an advantage because they can extend the checkout then wait the time window to roll check in forward.

 

[Tatebeck]

For 11 month bookings:

You can’t move your checkin day until stay length +1 day. If you wanted to move that checkin day 3 days forward, cancel and come back when the 11 month window opens.

This correction would only apply to any reservation booked exactly at 11 months and revolves around check-in day. You can add/remove days from the end just as the current system allows. Just no walking it. If your plans change shortly after booking and you need to move a check-in day forward, no problem. Try again at the 11 month mark.

That seems like it may be a bit harsh and may effect more people than just walkers. Say someone who booked a competitive room for 4 nights but then only wants 3. they didn't really walk a reservation but by the time they can cancel and rebook their original room type would be full.

You wouldn't even need to limit WHEN someone is able to modify the reservation, just stop the system from showing them their single prebooked room as an option on the modify search screen, just show them the same exact availability that everyone else can see (what you would see now, minus their one room.) Then they could at least modify it if the room type is still available before it's gone.

 

[Genie+]

So you can’t ever move your check in day? That’s the part I’m unclear about. Or you can’t move it until some window/time has passed?

The former is a serious limitation a lot of people won’t like. I for one would be upset, not that I need to change my checkin but it be upsetting to waste points if I did and could only cancel and rebook.

The latter isn’t reducing walking completely. It just gives larger point contracts an advantage because they can extend the checkout then wait the time window to roll check in forward.

You couldn’t roll your check-in day made at 11 months forward, aka walk it. You either wait to length of reservation +1 day to modify, or just cancel and rebook the new check-in date at 11 months.

People can still change reservations all they want. The check-in day on 11 months forward booking can’t be walked. Either re-book or modify into any date after checkout date that is not more than 11 months out 8am.

 

[Genie+]

That seems like it may be a bit harsh and may effect more people than just walkers. Say someone who booked a competitive room for 4 nights but then only wants 3. they didn't really walk a reservation but by the time they can cancel and rebook their original room type would be full.

They could drop any days other than checkin day. If they wanted to drop check-in day, they could do that anytime after 11 months window has passed for their entire booking, and they could also just try the next morning after the initial booking.

You wouldn't even need to limit WHEN someone is able to modify the reservation, just stop the system from showing them their single prebooked room as an option on the modify search screen, just show them the same exact availability that everyone else can see (what you would see now, minus their one room.) Then they could at least modify it if the room type is still available before it's gone.

That’s interesting. I’m mulling over with some wine lol. Sorry if my thoughts are a bit squishy at the moment.

 

[crvetter]

They could drop any days other than checkin day. If they wanted to drop check-in day, they could do that anytime after 11 months window has passed for their entire booking, and they could also just try the next morning after the initial booking

Again my point is this doesn’t stop walking. It’s just more costly than before, so large point owners can walk. They just tie up points until outside the complete booking window as you suggest.

So keep adding days each day, then wait until your entire stay is inside the 11 months and then drop the front of your stay.

 

[Sandisw]

Again my point is this doesn’t stop walking. It’s just more costly than before, so large point owners can walk. They just tie up points until outside the complete booking window as you suggest.

So keep adding days each day, then wait until your entire stay is inside the 11 months and then drop the front of your stay.

Exaclty! The only way to eliminate walking completely is make it day by day booking or make all changes a cancel and rebook.

And that causes way more problems than walking which is why DVC changed from check out…because owners were forced to do day by day or risk a gap…to check in plus 7.

No solution will be perfect and I still believe DVC will err for simplicity.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Good. do something and fast and make sure it has a large impact cause I just booked a room for my aunt cause I’m not using points this year and I literally watched multiple people walk a 1 bed for a month at grand California. And how fast an opening goes at 8 am has to be a computer cause I mean I was using a world clock on my hard line multiple days missing the room. I was trying right at 8:00 am. 1 second before 8:00 am trying to hit the button right before the half second inbetween. Friggin’ nuts. I should not have to do that. I think they should implement a human verification even before I book. Anything. But it is a problem. And it’s getting worse each year. Everything about Disney anymore and for many years has been about hurry hurry hurry. I mean virtual lines right at 7 am using 2 phones for a ride nuts. It’s just too much anymore. Sorry for the vent. In the end I got her room for her but man was it a process. Even in the past I think it was easier to get concierge floor at animal kingdom. Lol

I say cut the commercial places off at the knees hard. Do something to put it back in us owners hands.

Amen and Amen.

I’m an ultra competitive type A person and even for me the amount of early morning (or middle of the night, for those of us west coasters) racing you have to do to secure stuff is awful. 11/7m out DVC reservation, 60 days dining, 7 days LLMP/PP, morning of VQ. Then sprinkle in moonlight magic and oogie boogie bash VQs, and don’t even get me started on Disney Cruise windows…

 

[Chili327]

To answer the original question… I hope so.

 

[StarCruzer]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying the problem but how about just limiting a user's ability to modify an existing reservation to once per week? Heck even a three day cool off period between modifications.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying the problem but how about just limiting a user's ability to modify an existing reservation to once per week? Heck even a three day cool off period between modifications.

I am not in favor of any “fix” that benefits the huge (more likely commercial renter) memberships over the 100 point members (or those of us with a ton of points but spread among 3+ resorts). If you limit to once a week, people with 1000+ points can easily keep walking and the families who pinch points to stay in a SV studio a few nights every other year will get shut out.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I am not in favor of any “fix” that benefits the huge (more likely commercial renter) memberships over the 100 point members (or those of us with a ton of points but spread among 3+ resorts). If you limit to once a week, people with 1000+ points can easily keep walking and the families who pinch points to stay in a SV studio a few nights every other year will get shut out.

I agree.

 

[adam.r.thomas]

Why not just limit folks to 2 or 3 modifications at 8AM and then say any future modifications require a call to Member Services? Would stop walking, as you need to make the change at 8AM for walking to be effective? Still allows folks with minimal modifications to do so (for example, adding more days past the seven or dropping a few days here or there), but makes walking nearly impossible beyond a three week period?

 

[StarCruzer]

I am not in favor of any “fix” that benefits the huge (more likely commercial renter) memberships over the 100 point members (or those of us with a ton of points but spread among 3+ resorts). If you limit to once a week, people with 1000+ points can easily keep walking and the families who pinch points to stay in a SV studio a few nights every other year will get shut out.

It would work if it was per owner, not per contract. That may be more technically difficult, though

 

[Sandisw]

I am not in favor of any “fix” that benefits the huge (more likely commercial renter) memberships over the 100 point members (or those of us with a ton of points but spread among 3+ resorts). If you limit to once a week, people with 1000+ points can easily keep walking and the families who pinch points to stay in a SV studio a few nights every other year will get shut out.

This is why I think the statements at the meeting included the notion that unintended consequences need to be carefully weighed against the changes.

That is not saying that they won’t be okay with them…but I’d stilll be surprised to see them come up with booking and modifications rules that do benefit a large point owner over your average owner.

Since walking impacts certain room categories a lot more than others, one thing they could decide is to implement something like the special season list for those rooms.

 

[DisTravels]

So you can’t ever move your check in day? That’s the part I’m unclear about. Or you can’t move it until some window/time has passed?

The former is a serious limitation a lot of people won’t like. I for one would be upset, not that I need to change my checkin but it be upsetting to waste points if I did and could only cancel and rebook.

The latter isn’t reducing walking completely. It just gives larger point contracts an advantage because they can extend the checkout then wait the time window to roll check in forward.

Not being able to move checkin days may drive a lot of back-to-back one-day reservations.

 

[lowlight]

One thing is for sure, a lot more people walk than are willing to admit. All this talk of unintended consequences, when the irony is that walking IS the original unintended consequence.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

It seems like not being able to change a check-in day is not going to go over well. When you have to plan and book your rooms nearly a year in advance to get what you think you want, things do change sometimes that require tweaks to the original reservation.

 

[Sandisw]

One thing is for sure, a lot more people walk than are willing to admit. All this talk of unintended consequences, when the irony is that walking IS the original unintended consequence.

And, they stated that at the meetings...but when the change was made, there was no online system so it wasn't easy to accomplish like it is today.

I think the statements about being careful about decisions so they don't end up in this situation again if it can be avoided was because they don't want another situation like thisl.

The whole change from check out to check in plus 7 was to prevent the day by day calling people were doing, which wasn't the intent of that system either....but people felt forced to do it because they worried about gaps....however, it was the same then as walking is now....some did the day by day, and some did not, so those that did were at an advantage over those who simply waited to their real check out day.

They want to avoid another situation like that with any future updates to bookings and modifications. All I feel semi confident about is that whatever they decide to do, it will be across the board and simple to implement and explain...which means, it may indeed have consequences for owners who are not walking....

 

[Flash_Sloth]

I'm not sure if there is a solution that eliminates walking without causing other issues. If things are going to change, I think that there has to be some compromise.

Sometimes various Disney webpages use an entrance queue around high demand times. For example, registering for Moonlight Magic, registering for a runDisney race, maybe the first day that some special event tickets go on sale such as MVMCP, MNSSHP, OBB, etc. People enter the online waiting room up to 30 minutes early, and get a random queue assignment once the virtual doors open.

Perhaps DVC should use that entrance queue for the first 30 minutes of every day. You have to be logged in, and you only get one queue entrance per login; no cheating the system by having 10 devices and/or web browsers open all trying to join the queue hoping that one of them will get a low queue number. And once it is your turn, you get only 1 reservation creation or modification. If you need another, you have to rejoin the queue after making or modifying your first reservation.

After the first 30 minutes, just let people login like normal to make or modify reservations.

When modifying a reservation, let people add days to the beginning or end of their trip anytime.

When modifying a reservation, don't let people drop days at the beginning if any of the reservation is in the 11 months + 7 days window. Dropping days at the beginning is only allowed if there is at least 1 day between the end of the reservation and 11 months. Exception: if there is current availability for all days of your reservation, allow dropping days at the beginning even if your reservation overlaps in the 11 months + 7 days window.

Does this solve everything? Nope. It still gives some advantage to people who have a lot of points to spare. They could book a long reservation and then eventually drop the beginning nights.

Should the maximum reservation length be reduced? What would be a fair number for a maximum reservation length? 14 nights? People could still try to make a second reservation immediately after their current reservation if they really need something longer.

I'm open to a system that is as fair as possible to everybody. People will try to find a way to give themselves an advantage. I'm hopeful, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not sure if there is a solution that eliminates walking without causing other issues. If things are going to change, I think that there has to be some compromise.

Sometimes various Disney webpages use an entrance queue around high demand times. For example, registering for Moonlight Magic, registering for a runDisney race, maybe the first day that some special event tickets go on sale such as MVMCP, MNSSHP, OBB, etc. People enter the online waiting room up to 30 minutes early, and get a random queue assignment once the virtual doors open.

Perhaps DVC should use that entrance queue for the first 30 minutes of every day. You have to be logged in, and you only get one queue entrance per login; no cheating the system by having 10 devices and/or web browsers open all trying to join the queue hoping that one of them will get a low queue number. And once it is your turn, you get only 1 reservation creation or modification. If you need another, you have to rejoin the queue after making or modifying your first reservation.

After the first 30 minutes, just let people login like normal to make or modify reservations.

When modifying a reservation, let people add days to the beginning or end of their trip anytime.

When modifying a reservation, don't let people drop days at the beginning if any of the reservation is in the 11 months + 7 days window. Dropping days at the beginning is only allowed if there is at least 1 day between the end of the reservation and 11 months. Exception: if there is current availability for all days of your reservation, allow dropping days at the beginning even if your reservation overlaps in the 11 months + 7 days window.

Does this solve everything? Nope. It still gives some advantage to people who have a lot of points to spare. They could book a long reservation and then eventually drop the beginning nights.

Should the maximum reservation length be reduced? What would be a fair number for a maximum reservation length? 14 nights? People could still try to make a second reservation immediately after their current reservation if they really need something longer.

I'm open to a system that is as fair as possible to everybody. People will try to find a way to give themselves an advantage. I'm hopeful, but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyting is possible but that’s a lot of new rules for owners on when they can and can not modify, limiting what you can do without having to go to the back of the line…could be seen as a violation of FCFS?

Now, having the virtual at 8 am might be doable but since not everyone is booking the same rooms, won’t you still be in the same situation with those who are all trying for the same room.

What I think many can agree on is that there is no easy solution other than. making it cancel and rebook for any change in dates or day by day booking.