Are manners becoming extinct?

[gmi3804]

That's true, the market at any given point can direct the sales price. But I will say in my state it's required by law that every January 1st your home is valued at "fair market value" for your property tax. Under normal conditions this typically means the the pricing is fairly close. During the pandemic it's been off due to a too tight of a housing market creating bidding wars but generally it's not too too off.

Will your state buy the house at that price if it doesn't sell at that price?

Their "fair market value" number is still just a yardstick by which it's compared to other properties. It makes about as much sense as Zillow's "Zestimate," which takes into account active (I call them "unsold") overpriced listed properties.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Interesting how this turned once again to millennial bashing.

I work with quite a few Millennials. I find them to be very polite. As in, over the top mannerly. I actually love working with them.

Many of them can't afford to have children, but the ones that do have little ones are very open about how they are stressed to the MAX with these kids. They definitely have a "My kids can do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting themselves and giving me time to scroll" kind of attitude. This includes blasting ipads in restaurants, letting kids run all over microbrews, endless screen time (which creates more issues), giving them "Mommy's Bliss" type of products (melatonin for kids) at night, etc.

Most Millennials have parents that still work full time, so they don't get a lot of help from after work and on weekends.

I have posted many times about my hatred of ipads and phones blasting in public places, esp. restaurants. My younger co-workers have a "Shrug. That's a YOU problem" kind of attitude. They don't see it as being rude. They see it as "Would you rather see my kids up and running around" type of situation. Um, it's not an either or. Teach your children both are rude scenarios. We go back and forth about this. In the end, I feel they are not prepared for the difficult parts of parenting and working full time.

And I do think housing prices have a part in this. Many young parents today have an added stress of either high rent and never owning their own home, or else owning a home and having a huge mortgage. Add in the exorbitant costs of mediocre daycare, and never having even the smallest glimpse of the option of one parent staying home (since everything is so expensive). One of my young so-workers just bought a house for a little over $750k. I make a lot more in salary, and I could never imagine the pressure owning a home of that price, let alone in your 30's. So, making their child wear headphones is the least of their worries, much to my chagrin.


I find it fascinating and refreshing that Millennials I work with are also very open to talk about all of this. I feel Gen X and Boomers never were this open about their personal lives and struggles.

For as mannerly as Millennials are, I do think they (not all) are raising kids in a way that is not conducive to manners as we know them. Ask a one of your teacher friends if they agree

 

[Praying Colonel]

Passenger Shaming is an IG account that shows pics and video of people behaving badly toward one another on flights. It's both funny and depressing about the state of the human condition.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Will your state buy the house at that price if it doesn't sell at that price?

Their "fair market value" number is still just a yardstick by which it's compared to other properties. It makes about as much sense as Zillow's "Zestimate," which takes into account active (I call them "unsold") overpriced listed properties.

I can speak to your second point but your first point makes no sense and isn't even how any state would handled it so that's a non-starter for a conversation. My point was to convey (especially based on some past conversations with other posters and how its handled in their areas) the feedback is more consistent here and is based more on how the market (which is taking into consideration the actual sales price) is doing thus while it is possible for the county's assessed value to be off if it's under normal conditions it's typically not too far off due to the metrics and frequency.

To your second point yes and no. The exact wording the state uses is "real property must be valued at its "fair market value" as it exists on January 1 of each year, except for land devoted to agricultural use, which is appraised at its "use value", not "market value""

It is true that they do use (in our case) 3 homes that match as close as can be your house that have sold in a recent enough time period. This includes square footage, number of bedrooms/bathrooms, style of house, etc as best that they can. In addition it includes the actual sales price on our valuation documents we get usually Feb-early April depending on the year.

At least for my county on a new build the first year's valuation is set as your purchase price of your home. We saw consistent increases immediately from our new build home because the contract and purchase price was signed when the market was still a buyer's market but by the time the information was entered into the system and the first property tax bill was sent to us the market was already a strong seller's market thus our home increased in value and so did the valuation of the home. And it's fluctuated over the 9 years that we've owned the home how much of an increase year over year it can be.

One of the 3 homes listed as a comparable to our home for the 2023 valuation the Actual Sales Price was $648,000 sold in May of 2022 with a 2023 Valuation of $643,200. In 2022's valuation the Actual Sales price of one of the comparable homes was $526,000 in end of June 2021 and 2022's valuation was $516,200.

As the market shifts and changes here so does the valuation assessed. Nothing is going to be perfect, just trying to say yes it's true a home can be sold in truth for whatever a person (or entity as sometimes it's a company) is willing to pay but that is more reflected here in the valuations of the properties. A downturn or upturn in the market will reflect your valuation here at least more closely than if it was not fair market value and done on a yearly basis.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Passenger Shaming is an IG account that shows video of people behaving badly toward one another on flights. It's both funny and depressing about the state of the human condition.

It makes me physically ill to see the ones where people put their disgusting bare feet on the arm rests/spaces of the people in front of them

It also angers me to see the ones where very obese people demand that the arm rests stay up and they spill into a seat the person next to them paid for.

To be honest, that entire account gives me anxiety when I have to fly.

 

[gmi3804]

I can speak to your second point but your first point makes no sense and isn't even how any state would handled it so that's a non-starter for a conversation.

My first question was rhetorical, I didn't bother reading the rest of your diatribe.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My first question was rhetorical, I didn't bother reading the rest of your diatribe.

Well that's a shame, why bother asking or acting like you're engaged in actual conversation if you don't really care. At least I tell people up front it's rhetorical question. Next time don't respond if you don't actually care. It'd save us both time

 

[cabanafrau]

We have had similar first time homebuyer programs here in MN since at least the late 90s. My ex and I did take the course, although we ended up getting a conventional mortgage as we had saved up enough for a bigger down payment. I do think it would be more difficult to save for a down payment today than 10, 15 or 20 years ago.

As for the original question, I find that most people I encounter are still generally polite. There is of course the occasional exception. I appreciate if someone holds the door for me, and I will definitely say thank you. I will also hold the door for others, men and women. People sometimes give me a funny look as I walk with forearm crutches, but if I have already opened the door, I can hold the door open the same as anyone. I think a lot of manners is simply treating others with respect and kindness.

It's a lot more difficult to save for a downpayment today than it was even 12 months ago. I know someone who works as an underwriter for the largest wholesale mortgage company in the U.S. She explained what the spike in interest rates has done to mortgages this way -- someone buying the same house at the same price with the same downpayment last year and this year would have had a $1,000 mortgage-only payment last year and a $1,600 mortgage-only payment this year. That's pretty significant IMO.

My youngest daughter worked from the end of high school through college breaks at a local produce and gourmet market. She got very used to dealing with the public and is well aware bad behavior doesn't discriminate among generations. She does however say that 95% of the worst of the worst offenders were the older folks. The fact that she graduated college and has taught middle and high school and still says the older folks were the worst behaved is kinda telling in my book.

 

[Smugpugmug]

She does however say that 95% of the worst of the worst offenders were the older folks. The fact that she graduated college and has taught middle and high school and still says the older folks were the worst behaved is kinda telling in my book.

I concur 100%. When I worked in retail stores, the rudest people and the ones most likely to yell at employees were older people (as in people 60+). It wasn't even remotely close.

I'm not saying everyone in that age group is like that obviously. That was just the group that behaved the worst the most often.

 

[Disneylover99]

We bought our home just in time in 1997 for $170,000, it’s now assessed at $550,000. I’m surprised that 3 of my daughter’s friends have managed to buy homes in town (squeaked in a few years ago with lower interest).

I was in full on panic mode when we bought are second home 22 years ago for just under $300 000. I couldn’t believe that we actually paid that much for a house. Lol.

Now, most detached homes sell for just north of a million. And that’s with a softened market. A couple of years ago, houses were being scooped up at 1.5 - 2 million. I really feel bad for the people who bought at those prices in my neighbourhood.

 

[barkley]

I find it fascinating and refreshing that Millennials I work with are also very open to talk about all of this. I feel Gen X and Boomers never were this open about their personal lives and struggles.

i agree with this and i think it also extended back generationaly. my parents (both adults during the depression and ww2) never directly chose to discuss it with myself/my sibs but we overheard them sharing memories of it with their same age friends or if we directly asked them a question about 'the olden days'. this was pretty common with my friends. we really only had a mental snapshot of the lives our parents had when we were being raised by them and going forward (and to that extent they were still very secretive about challenges, finances and such).

on this subject-back when my oldest (millennial) was in middleschool i overheard a conversation between a group of students discussing their post highschool plans. many were talking of going into the same jobs/career paths their parents had, aquiring the same kind of homes (or better).....basicly truly believing that their parents had stepped out of highschool (or college) into the lives they inhabited modern day. i had a private discussion with their teacher and shared what i overheard, suggested an assignment to have the kids interview their parents and learn more about how they came to be in the jobs/homes they currently lived in, any challenges they were willing to share for the purpose of an oral report. i made a point of volunteering in the classroom the day the kids did their oral reports (as did a few other parents) and to say that those kids were surprised at what they had learned is holding back. many never dreamed their parents had schlepped through fast food and minimum wage jobs during college to make ends meets, did'nt remember the extra part time jobs one or both had taken when the kids were younger to afford the rent, that they themselves had lived in apartments and rental houses as their parents scraped together downpayments for a house which was sold to fund a bigger house and ultimatly the house they now lived in. several learned that their successful professional parent had not gone to college in the traditional manner but had taken an entry level job to gain skills and an income to take classes part-time for YEARS and had only attained their current position within the last handful of years. they learned of budget meals, unmet power bills, how a vacation simply meant not having to go into work for a few days (and errands and household projects were the main event during that time off).

i think for some it realy (for lack of a better term) 'humanized' their parents for them. i hope it helped them down the line to not feel like they were somehow lacking or less than b/c they were faced with not only the same challenges and struggles but new ones their parents could'nt even imagine.

 

[CdnCarrie]

My youngest daughter worked from the end of high school through college breaks at a local produce and gourmet market. She got very used to dealing with the public and is well aware bad behavior doesn't discriminate among generations. She does however say that 95% of the worst of the worst offenders were the older folks. The fact that she graduated college and has taught middle and high school and still says the older folks were the worst behaved is kinda telling in my book.

I concur 100%. When I worked in retail stores, the rudest people and the ones most likely to yell at employees were older people (as in people 60+). It wasn't even remotely close.

I'm not saying everyone in that age group is like that obviously. That was just the group that behaved the worst the most often.

The OP will ignore of all who said this and will be back venting about young people and manners again in 6 months.

 

[Pink Partridge]

.... (and to that extent they were still very secretive about challenges, finances and such).

This! I never knew what my parents paid for the light bill or any other bills.

My kids knew what we paid for water/sewer/electric/etc. from a young age. It was actually exciting for them when the bill would come to see if they lowered it by turning off lights. Or when we would go on vacation, would the bill be less. Or when we had visitors, how they would be sort of eyerolling at each other when a cousin would brush teeth with the water running

Why didn't our parents show us these things?

Now young adults share their salaries. It's wild! I actually love it. I don't share mine, because I guess that is my "old fashion" thing. And maybe the "uppers" taught us that it was rude to share your salary in order to keep us from ruining their unfair practices. But I absolutely think it is great that the young people at work know what they all bring in yearly.


So I suppose there is an instance of manners evolving. Talking about finances was very frowned upon at one time. Not so much anymore. And, again, I think that is a good thing. Blasting ipads? Not so much

 

[starlite_]

My first question was rhetorical, I didn't bother reading the rest of your diatribe.

What a rude thing to say.

 

[barkley]

Why didn't our parents show us these things?

i think it was ingrained in them (at least my parents generation as well as my in-laws who were 2 decades younger than mine). we just grew up knowing that money did'nt grow on trees and to not linger in front of an open fridge b/c electricity does'nt magically and freely appear

i wish i could say people have become more forthcoming but i know allot of people who seeming drown their adult children with unsolicited financial advice that their children have no idea is born of horrific financial experiences their parents have/are or WILL be facing that they are unwilling to share.

 

[Pink Partridge]

i wish i could say people have become more forthcoming but i know allot of people who seeming drown their adult children with unsolicited financial advice that their children have no idea is born of horrific financial experiences their parents have/are or WILL be facing that they are unwilling to share.

Yep. For every one person my age who inherits some money from their parents, I can show you 20 that inherit their parents' hoarder house (with a huge home equity loan against it) and mounds of debt. A mess physically and financially.

Seems like keeping the finances a secret didn't work out for the Silent Generation, nor many older Boomers.

 

[Smugpugmug]

The OP will ignore of all who said this and will be back venting about young people and manners again in 6 months.

At least a young person hasn't had a full blown meltdown in front of me because our store was out of cream cheese.

 

[john7994]

At least a young person hasn't had a full blown meltdown in front of me because our store was out of cream cheese.

What about avocados?

 

[Smugpugmug]

What about avocados?

Millennials and Gen Z when the store is out of avocados and iced coffee:

 

[john7994]

Millennials and Gen Z when the store is out of avocados and iced coffee:

View attachment 815794

Ha! Almost spit out my non-iced coffee on that one!