Are any Disney guests average income people?

[CanadaDisney05]

But you ARE generating them revenue! And profit! If you buy lunch and a Mickey Bar, they are profiting from you.

Again, you are going on the presumption that if you as an AP holder weren't there, nobody would be there in your place.

What I am saying is if you clear out the AP holders that clog up the park, two things happen.

1) your costs go down. Less people = less staff required, less ride maintenance, etc...

2) guest experience improves, which leads to more high margin guests coming. For simplicity, let's say a high margin guest provides 10x the profit as an AP holder, and a removing 10 AP holders convinces 3 new high margin guests to come. In this scenario, your profit is 2x as high (3 x 10 - 10)/10.

 

[DLgal]

This AP argument can stop now. Disney OBVIOUSLY sees the financial advantage to offering APs, evidenced by how quickly they jumped to reselling them at Disneyland less than 4 months after reopening. They were caught off guard with how few people were actually willing to pay the full day ticket price more than once to visit the parks. By July and into August, the parks were practically empty.

They said they were going to offer a "membership program" that was not expected to start until early 2022. So much for that. They need passholders at Disneyland. Maybe they need them less at WDW, but they still need them or else they wouldn't sell them.

 

[DLgal]

Again, you are going on the presumption that if you as an AP holder weren't there, nobody would be there in your place.

What I am saying is if you clear out the AP holders that clog up the park, two things happen.

1) your costs go down. Less people = less staff required, less ride maintenance, etc...

2) guest experience improves, which leads to more high margin guests coming. For simplicity, let's say a high margin guest provides 10x the profit as an AP holder, and a removing 10 AP holders convinces 3 new high margin guests to come. In this scenario, your profit is 2x as high (3 x 10 - 10)/10.

No. This is not what happens. People literally didn't show up. See: Disneyland last summer. They were hemorrhaging money. They scrambled to bring back essentially the same version of annual passes that they claimed were never coming back.

And now that there are passes again, the parks are filling up again. It's like magic!

 

[shawthorne44]

I'm not sure what your evidence is that Disney feels they have to many APs. I can see during the very limited capacity days of Covid where that would be an issue, but at full capacity, the parks rarely sellout- maybe only a couple days a year. Their concern isn't days where the parks are too full. Their concern is days where they're too empty.

The evidence is the perception that WDW is mainly spending lots of money to wait in long lines. Even when it isn't at full capacity but merely busy, that is the perception among many. Particularly those that didn't know when the day-of FPP drops were.

 

[Jonfw2]

The evidence is the perception that WDW is mainly spending lots of money to wait in long lines. Even when it isn't at full capacity but merely busy, that is the perception among many. Particularly those that didn't know when the day-of FPP drops were.

Yes. Amusement parks have long lines.
If I’m reading correctly, your argument is that they should have less people in the parks so that perception goes away so they can have…more people?

 

[Jonfw2]

No. This is not what happens. People literally didn't show up. See: Disneyland last summer. They were hemorrhaging money. They scrambled to bring back essentially the same version of annual passes that they claimed were never coming back.

And now that there are passes again, the parks are filling up again. It's like magic!

You are, of course, correct.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

No. This is not what happens. People literally didn't show up. See: Disneyland last summer. They were hemorrhaging money. They scrambled to bring back essentially the same version of annual passes that they claimed were never coming back.

And now that there are passes again, the parks are filling up again. It's like magic!

Disneyland is a completely different beast. It's not designed as a true vacation resort the way WDW is. Its more on par with the way a six flags or Cedar Fairs park operates. Even during its best days it doesn't attract anywhere close to the volume of tourists the WDW does.. Plus, during this period you are talking about, the state of California was not allowing tourists from out of state.

 

[Jonfw2]

Disneyland is a completely different beast. It's not designed as a true vacation resort the way WDW is. Its more on par with the way a six flags or Cedar Fairs park operates. Even during its best days it doesn't attract anywhere close to the volume of tourists the WDW does.. Plus, during this period you are talking about, the state of California was not allowing tourists from out of state.

The weirdest part of all this is that YOU are an APholder.

 

[DLgal]

Disneyland is a completely different beast. It's not designed as a true vacation resort the way WDW is. Its more on par with the way a six flags or Cedar Fairs park operates. Even during its best days it doesn't attract anywhere close to the volume of tourists the WDW does.. Plus, during this period you are talking about, the state of California was not allowing tourists from out of state.

None of these statements is accurate, especially the last one. As of June 15, the state of CA was not mandating or restricting anything. The emptiest days happened after June 15.

In 2019, Disneyland park had about 18.5 million visitors. For a direct comparison, the Magic Kingdom had just under 21 million. Sounds pretty close to me.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

None of these statements is accurate, especially the last one. As of June 15, the state of CA was not mandating or restricting anything. The emptiest days happened after June 15.

I'll take your word for it. But nothing else I said was inaccurate. DL is much smaller and doesn't attract anywhere near the same volume of tourists as WDW.

The premise that they essentially came back with the same AP is false. Their was one major difference and that was the ability to limit the number of APs allowed in the park at any given time.

e weirdest part of all this is that YOU are an APholder

I would love for WDW to have limited capacity, but allow my family entrance anytime I want, all while costing $50 for an annual pass. But this discussion isn't about me or what I would personally do if I were CEO. We're just discussing what their actions are showing what they want.

 

[DLgal]

I'll take your word for it. But nothing else I said was inaccurate. DL is much smaller and doesn't attract anywhere near the same volume of tourists as WDW.

The premise that they essentially came back with the same AP is false. Their was one major difference and that was the ability to limit the number of APs allowed in the park at any given time.

You don't have to take my word for it. There is plenty of hard evidence.

You keep focusing on "tourist" numbers. That doesn't matter. Bodies through the gate is all that matters in the AP discussion.

They also previously had a reservations required AP in the past. It was called the Flex pass. So, no, they didn't create a "new" pass system. They resurrected the old one, and made them all some version of the old Flex pass.

 

[shawthorne44]

Yes. Amusement parks have long lines.
If I’m reading correctly, your argument is that they should have less people in the parks so that perception goes away so they can have…more people?

That AP holders discourage one-trip vacationers by filling up the park.
You can tell that WDW really hasn't been interested in having AP guests. Just look at how much the price skyrocketed in the last 5-ish years.

 

[Turksmom]

If Disney wanted fewer APs, they could simply limit AP sales. If they really believed they were losing "higher yield" guests because APs were overcrowding the parks, I think they'd do that before hatching some convoluted plan to deter them

 

[CanadaDisney05]

If Disney wanted fewer APs, they could simply limit AP sales. If they really believed they were losing "higher yield" guests because APs were overcrowding the parks, I think they'd do that before hatching some convoluted plan to deter them

Or, they may add a reservation system that limits the amount of APs allowed into the park at any given time......

 

[KatheeME]

@CaptainAmerica point is that as a value guest, you are gaining access to EMH at 3 parks per day. This spreads out the guests amongst the parks rather than bringing them all to the same park. In theory, their will be 25% of the guests at your park during EMH. So even though you are getting 50% of the time, you are also dealing with 25% of the crowds

I get "the point" but it is still a cut. It will not stop me from going but it is what it is, a cut.

 

[KingLlama]

After reading through this entire thread, I just want to add this...

Duffy is the worst. The absolute worst.

I know that doesn't have anything to do with this thread. But I still felt like saying it.

 

[GAN]

After reading through this entire thread, I just want to add this...

Duffy is the worst. The absolute worst.

I know that doesn't have anything to do with this thread. But I still felt like saying it.

You're right! And Duffy is the reason for this overcrowding. Once he started to hit the shelves, I noticed Park Attendance skyrocket. It's not the fault of AP Holders(or any other guest for that matter) at all....

 

[KingLlama]

He ruins EVERYTHING.

If Disney World was the Brady Bunch, Duffy would be Cousin Oliver.

 

[CBMom01]

Until this moment, did not have any idea who or what Duffy was. He's obviously the puppet master controlling things from the shadows.

 

[KingLlama]

Until this moment, did not have any idea who or what Duffy was. He's obviously the puppet master controlling things from the shadows.

Welcome to the team.