AP sales…

[jo-jo]

I still don't understand the Fla passes . Not so much me, but people who have a thousand or more points, every year probably put more into disney's pockets than the person who lives 10 miles away and pops into disney once a week.

 

[RoseGold]

I still don't understand the Fla passes . Not so much me, but people who have a thousand or more points, every year probably put more into disney's pockets than the person who lives 10 miles away and pops into disney once a week.

This kind of thing can be a condition of building large facilities and permits. It’s possible Disney has a legal obligation to keep a special pass for local residents. I feel like we would already know about it in California from the lawsuit.

Lots of touristy things give discounts to the locals as part of the arrangement with local government. WDW has a lot of these, hotel discounts too.

 

[Miffy]

@Ms Bibbidi: Thank you for that thoughtful analysis. I was unaware of the details of the CA lawsuit and your explanation is extremely helpful. This has convinced me to never let my AP lapse. I fortunately renewed it right before the pandemic and have kept it up since.

WDW is still offering AP discounts for certain dates, and I've taken advantage of them, including an early-March trip that I never would've taken if the discount hadn't been available. This makes me wonder about their "loyalty" to AP holders. Why bother offering APs discounts if they want us to discontinue renewing?

 

[lowlight]

This kind of thing can be a condition of building large facilities and permits. It’s possible Disney has a legal obligation to keep a special pass for local residents. I feel like we would already know about it in California from the lawsuit.

Lots of touristy things give discounts to the locals as part of the arrangement with local government. WDW has a lot of these, hotel discounts too.

Even if it isn’t a legal requirement, it’s smart business. You are developing an area around a major city, causing traffic, crime, and general mayhem. You need to keep local residents happy, because otherwise, when they’re waiting in heavy traffic caused by your parks on their way to work, they may talk to their local elected official who may fear losing office and put a wrench in some expansion plans. It’s just greasing the wheels like the lobbyists do.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[lowlight]

Well, that is a darker way of looking at it. Such conditions are not quite like that. They are environmental mitigations that are negotiated and above board. That is why they are part of the public hearing process and the public record. I think it is at least a very interesting coincidence that the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) was passed in 1970. It really gained traction in the late 70s and early 80s. Disneyland California started annual passes in circa 1982.

Ok.

 

[tjkraz]

WDW has *made* parks crowded (in part due to wanting to maximize profits). Reduced hours, Genie and ticket prices making visitors feel they need to stay in park to justify the ridiculous cost.

Agree with that. Additionally, the pre-booking aspect of FastPass+ did a lot to stagger arrivals at the theme parks. If I could line-up my 3 rides at 2pm, 3pm and 4pm, I had no reason to get to the park earlier. I could show up at the MK after lunch, ride BTMR, Space and Splash, while peppering with a few other short-wait attractions, and consider it a very worthwhile visit.

Now, whether you're buying Genie+ or not, the uncertainty over wait times forces everyone into the park early. If you're buying G+, you're probably up at 7am in the interest of getting your money's worth. If you aren't buying, you probably still arrive at the park early rather than risk waltzing in mid-day and finding hour-long lines for everything.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[redboat45]

There was a dust up in the early days during very low park capacity when on-site guests who were passholders were being limited by the 5 reservations at a time and it did not cover length of stay. So Disney responded with length of stay in addition to the 5 passholder reservations even though they were using annual passes for admission. That was the only on-site guest problem I am aware of.

it was only 3 reservation days allowed! And we got caught up in that. It was AWFUL!

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Matty B13]

Saw the CNBC news about Disney yesterday, and it was not good for Chapek, reminds me a lot of what happened at GE and mismanagement there. GE's stock tanked after several new stories about the issues there, hope this isn't the same thing that happens to Disney's stock. Seems that Chapek put most of his eggs in the Disney+ basket, and didn't want to put any money into the parks. I just hope as a shareholder that there is a claw-back on his compensation package.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Miffy]

I am thinking the park reservation system and behind-the-scenes bucket allocation system was created in very large part to give Disney control over when the "space available" passholders could actually attend the parks. If they cannot use that system, the next edition of passes or frequent visitor admissions will try to reflect another method of shoe-horning frequent visitor guests into the parks and days with the lowest expected attendance. They have many methods to do that like pricing incentives, limits on reservations or even maximum caps on number of visits. The question is whether or not they will tweak the current system or sunset it and start something completely new like a variation of tickets. They were using language like membership or frequent visitor before they issued the current rendition of annual passes. So, they decided on a park reservation plus a behind the scenes bucket allocation solely within their control. If that is off the table then "Katie bar the door." This may kill the reservation system (now projected through early 2024) but the replacement may be something else you like even less.

Oh no! Not that! (But I totally get what you're saying.)
I just wonder how all this will shake out once the make-up-for-the-pandemic vacationing tapers off, and that will happen.

 

[Nappy1380]

I asked numerous CMs last week about this and every single time the answer was the same; "We were told they would be back in 2022, but not when in 2022".

 

[CraigInPA]

I'm a former AP holder, and bought tickets for my recent trip because AP's stopped being offered. I expected, sometime in the last few months, they'd open AP's back up and I could use the $809 per ticket I paid as a credit toward a new AP. Alas, my trip came up and there were no AP's offered. My wife and I were planning a 2023 trip, but are now determined not to go unless:
1. We can buy an AP
2. They re-vamp Genie+ into something usable for people who don't want to wake up at 6:55am to book those iLL's promptly at 7am and make that first hard-to-get reservation and then show up at rope drop to effectively use Genie+ to ride more than two E-ticket rides in a day. We went during "Spring Break", so the crowds were high. Standby times for most MK rides (7DMT 150 minutes) were over 60 minutes, HS rides over 80 minutes (ROTR 240 minutes), and AK rides over 60 minutes (Avatar 200 minutes), and my wife and I aren't physically able to stand in line that long. We would use fastpass+ to book 3 rides a day in the morning or afternoon, leave the park, and then return for the evening fireworks or parades.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

I'm a former AP holder, and bought tickets for my recent trip because AP's stopped being offered. I expected, sometime in the last few months, they'd open AP's back up and I could use the $809 per ticket I paid as a credit toward a new AP. Alas, my trip came up and there were no AP's offered. My wife and I were planning a 2023 trip, but are now determined not to go unless:
1. We can buy an AP
2. They re-vamp Genie+ into something usable for people who don't want to wake up at 6:55am to book those iLL's promptly at 7am and make that first hard-to-get reservation and then show up at rope drop to effectively use Genie+ to ride more than two E-ticket rides in a day. We went during "Spring Break", so the crowds were high. Standby times for most MK rides (7DMT 150 minutes) were over 60 minutes, HS rides over 80 minutes (ROTR 240 minutes), and AK rides over 60 minutes (Avatar 200 minutes), and my wife and I aren't physically able to stand in line that long. We would use fastpass+ to book 3 rides a day in the morning or afternoon, leave the park, and then return for the evening fireworks or parades.

I think #1 will happen. I think #2 will not

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I think #1 will happen. I think #2 will not

See, I think #2 might happen, and I’m starting to have doubts about #1, at least in it’s current form. But as for #2, people really really HATE Genie. I get that everyone is buying it because they have to, but take a wander on down to the tripadvisor reviews for Walt Disney World lately and you’ll get a taste of it. I don’t think they’re ever eliminating Genie, but could they tweak it to remove some of the most unpopular elements (like requiring you to wake up at 6:45 am every single day of your trip to play fastest fingers?). Yeah, I think they could do that. Hell, I got a survey after my last trip with questions about Genie that made me think they were considering changes like that.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

See, I think #2 might happen, and I’m starting to have doubts about #1, at least in it’s current form. But as for #2, people really really HATE Genie. I get that everyone is buying it because they have to, but take a wander on down to the tripadvisor reviews for Walt Disney World lately and you’ll get a taste of it. I don’t think they’re ever eliminating Genie, but could they tweak it to remove some of the most unpopular elements (like requiring you to wake up at 6:45 am every single day of your trip to play fastest fingers?). Yeah, I think they could do that. Hell, I got a survey after my last trip with questions about Genie that made me think they were considering changes like that.

I think the only way to really increase Genie+ satisfaction is to raise the price....as nuts as that sounds. Too many people are buying it during busy times it seems. I think they need to make it more like US Express Pass that varies in price depending on the date. We had a lot of success using it during our October 2021 and Jan 2022 trips. I don't think we'd have the same success recently.

I think as far as the 6:55am and fast finger issues, I don't know how to address that other than maybe allowing people to book things starting at 7pm the day before. But then instead of waking up early you are eating into your nighttime activities the night before.

Honestly though, until there is some decline in demand I'm not sure what is really going to make things better as far as wait times.