Anyone there now that can comment on FP enforcement

[mesaboy2]

Would you prefer that Imperial Stormtroopers be present at the FP machines and entrances, describing the consequences for not abiding by their polite request?

Ooh, that does sound kinda cool.

These aren't the FP windows we're looking for.

 

[mesaboy2]

Which part and why?

The part that starts with "In fact it is that very reason...." I'm really certain the poster doesn't know the facts. None of us schlubs do.

 

[origin62]

Which part and why?

That poster was confused. Just behind by about 10 years. Originally the FP machines did allow you to collect multiple passes without regard to times. That was fixed a very long time ago.

I think s/he crossed that issue with the one currently at hand.

 

[origin62]

Ooh, that does sound kinda cool.

These aren't the FP windows we're looking for.

Move along, move along...

Even better, Stormtroopers at the FP machines, but Darth Vader himself at the FP Return Entrance, light saber in hand. At least at Star Tours, you know, for theming.

 

[mesaboy2]

Move along, move along...

Even better, Stormtroopers at the FP machines, but Darth Vader himself at the FP Return Entrance, light saber in hand. At least at Star Tours, you know, for theming.

I'd even let him slice off my hand at the wrist if it meant I left the park with a bionic replacement. Disney customer service is just that good.

 

[origin62]

I'd even let him slice off my hand at the wrist if it meant I left the park with a bionic replacement. Disney customer service is just that good.

That may be beyond the scope of services offered by First Aid, but I'm right there with you.

 

[Jennasis]

Try re-reading the pages 11 and 12. Below I've quoted more of the post that I quoted above. (It's on page 11)




"Morally wrong" is my wording- not this poster.

I apologize for getting off topic. But I thought the examples given were kind of funny, since I've been exposed to both situations in the last week, having just come back from WDW. Even at WDW, there are merchandise discounts.

I am kicking myself that there were several times I neglected to mention my AP and AAA status - and would have saved 10%!

No way is the staff going to ask me if I qualify for a discount- you nearly always have to be proactive if you want to get the discounts.

I have read it all thankyouvery much and NOBODY said anything about how "asking questions" is morally wrong. ONLY YOU came up with that gem.

It stemmed from the poster "magicbob" who, all on his own (and I can't figure out where he came up with it) INFERRED something in "vacationclub's" post that simply wasn't there. He tried to insist that the way VC framed their question was biased. IMO it was not biased, but rather magicbob was injecting his own feelings into the post...much like Luvtink did to me a few pages back.

To reiterate...ONLY YOU came up with the morally wrong to ask questions nonsense.

 

[Tarffri]

I'm sorry. I just don't understand what more you need to see/hear. The signs you saw at the machines, WERE your warning. That, along with a half dozen other FP indicators, all tell you what you need to know. If you cannot intuit that the words on those signs = No Late Admits, then you will be disappointed when you try to ride "late." I guess Disney messaging is just to subtle for you.

Would you prefer that Imperial Stormtroopers be present at the FP machines and entrances, describing the consequences for not abiding by their polite request?

Hee hee! This reminds me of one of the warnings on the Simpsons ride at the Darkside. I forgot what the warning was for, perhaps no flash photography or something, but the cartoon video shows someone breaking the rule and the rule breaker got blasted away by several torpedo missiles! Too funny!

We just got back from our trip (3/2 - 3/11) and never had a problem making our Fastpass times (we were in WDW before the 3/7 enforcement date and were at Epcot on the 8th. Same difference for us. We planned our days accordingly and that was that. It's not a big deal. But DD (9) got tired with all the walking and zig-zagging through the parks to make the times listed. I advise first timers to get in shape before their visit.

I DID prefer the on site Loew's hotel perk at Universal which gave us true fastpass privileges on the rides. It was a better system IMO, but staying at the Royal Pacific Resort is pretty pricey. They scanned our hotel key cards and we got right on the best rides like Spiderman without having to wait. Harry Potter Forbidden Journey was exempt but we got early admission to the park as one of our hotel perk so we got to ride it twice in the morning then twice later in the day after rain thinned out the crowds.

 

[Day-Day]

Maybe they figure that, if you were smart enough to figure out that printed policy wasn't actual policy before, you'd be smart enough to figure out that printed policy and actual policy are now the same when they add another sign. Or maybe the sign should have said, "Hey, we really mean it this time!"

Isn't the additional warning enough? What wording do you think they should have used? If you've always returned late, and never saw signs saying you should return on time...until now, wouldn't you think something's up?

I'm not sure how else they can word this so-called change, because to most guests there is no change. I doubt that they want to reveal to the majority that never knew about the loophole that it existed to begin with. They can't post a sign declaring a change in policy when, publicly, there is no change in policy. Only for those that knew the secret is there a change. The signs that have always been there are still accurate, they are now just more strongly worded.

So they've delicately worded the signs hoping people will either respond to the printed request, or at least ask if something changed. Obviously some people saw these new signs but ignored them.

There's no easy way to handle this situation that, unfortunately Disney created for itself.

Good point. My only point in my post was that some people are mis-stating what was on the signs at the FP machines.

For the same reason they don't print on party tickets that you can get in at 4. To give them wiggle room when needed.




I thought the wording on the machines was pretty weak as well. But didn't the fastpasses themselves say "unable to accommodate late arrivals"? That seemed pretty clear to me.

Very clear on FP's; agree that some folks might not get the message with the sign at the FP machine but the point made by vacationclub above makes sense.

I'm sorry. I just don't understand what more you need to see/hear. The signs you saw at the machines, WERE your warning. That, along with a half dozen other FP indicators, all tell you what you need to know. If you cannot intuit that the words on those signs = No Late Admits, then you will be disappointed when you try to ride "late." I guess Disney messaging is just to subtle for you.

Would you prefer that Imperial Stormtroopers be present at the FP machines and entrances, describing the consequences for not abiding by their polite request?

I don't understand why you think I need to see or hear more; I guess my post was too subtle for you. I posted that some people are making statements that aren't true about the signs at the FP machines and I included the exact wording of the signs I saw. Why would I try to ride using late FP's when I already stated that I understood the policy change?

 

[magicbob]

I have read it all thankyouvery much and NOBODY said anything about how "asking questions" is morally wrong. ONLY YOU came up with that gem.

It stemmed from the poster "magicbob" who, all on his own (and I can't figure out where he came up with it) INFERRED something in "vacationclub's" post that simply wasn't there. He tried to insist that the way VC framed their question was biased. IMO it was not biased, but rather magicbob was injecting his own feelings into the post...much like Luvtink did to me a few pages back.

To reiterate...ONLY YOU came up with the morally wrong to ask questions nonsense.

I then admitted that I'd inferred meaning from his post that he did not intend and apologized.

Many of the misunderstandings around here occur when someone uses a word or phrase that come with "baggage" due to past debates with different posters. When someone makes a general comment about the phrase, the person being quoted sometimes (understandably) gets defensive because that's not what THEY meant. We all (myself included) need to be mindful that everyone else doesn't always have all of the backstory and context to why some words or phrases can "push buttons."

 

[WDSearcher]

Which part and why?

The second part.

"why is this still such a big issue. Yes, for a few years the system has allowed you to get a pass and come back whenever though on the pass it stated a specific time. Now they are holding people to it. Not a big deal if you followed the rules from the beginning. In fact it is that very reason they are now coming down hard on the time."

It's just the way it's worded that makes it incorrect in the reasoning.

Saying "Not a big deal if you followed the rules from the beginning." implies that people who used FPs after their noted time were breaking the rules. Clearly, they were not, or CMs would not have been accepting late FPs as a rule throughout the parks. Since Disney was openly allowing it and not making any move to change it, it was not a rule people were breaking.

And because it was not a rule being even remotely enforced prior to now, it is NOT "in fact" the "very reason they are now coming down hard on the time". The reason that Disney has instituted a hard line on FP return times is in preparation of XPass and other programs coming in the future that will very much depend on people using their FPs only during the time given.

It has very little to do with Disney trying to stop people who weren't following the "rules" -- it's more about them officially saying that there ARE rules.

 

[Jennasis]

I then admitted that I'd inferred meaning from his post that he did not intend and apologized.

Many of the misunderstandings around here occur when someone uses a word or phrase that come with "baggage" due to past debates with different posters. When someone makes a general comment about the phrase, the person being quoted sometimes (understandably) gets defensive because that's not what THEY meant. We all (myself included) need to be mindful that everyone else doesn't always have all of the backstory and context to why some words or phrases can "push buttons."

That's cool. I figured it was all water under the bridge (which is why I was stymied where the poster was getting her "morally wrong" from).

 

[CentralFloridian99]

I went to Epcot yesterday (it was raining all day and I'm going back Sunday just to ride TT) and got FPS for TT. Since we couldn't use them, the CM said they don't expire until the end of the month. Should I belive him?

 

[KellyNY]

Move along, move along...

Even better, Stormtroopers at the FP machines, but Darth Vader himself at the FP Return Entrance, light saber in hand. At least at Star Tours, you know, for theming.

Hold on, isn't he suppose to promote joining dark side, I would say he should be somewhere around in a trenchcoat,.. offering FP with stamps from TS meals for a tiny price of your soul...

 

[mickeyluv'r]

vacationclub, perhaps we are not taking opposite sides of an issue, so much as looking at it from different angles. Just because a thing is written doesn't make it unquestionable in my mind. I read in your posts that being written equals legitimacy. That it is not NORMAL to question something that's written. I am simply stating that questioning the examples you gave - posted check out times, for example- is the NORMALfor many folks. I agree that not everyone is smart enough to question written information, nor do they always have cause - but that maybe we should all question such things as price tags. (another example you gave)

To use another of your examples - according to Mapquest and GPS's - my address was NOT where they had me on the map. So yes, even addresses have to be double checked.

The one e-ride night sign we saw did not spell out what e-ride was. So it's a fine example where Disney did not spell out policy loud and clear. If you simply looked at the 'printed' information, you would have assumed that the sign did not apply to YOU. I'm pretty sure Disney did that intentionally. E-ride only worked if it was 'exclusive.' That's what I'm saying. We all SHOULD make a habit of being well informed. Fastpass policy is no different. It's wise to request clarification.

Getting more on subject, child swap - for many years - was not publicized by Disney. There STILL is no sign at any attraction that I am aware of which informs guests that they can request one. So maybe we're talking semantics here- but in effect- ALMOST the only way to find out about child swap is to ASK at the attraction about it, and some staff are VERY reluctant to give them out!

Does that make childswap pass users rule breakers? Sometimes CM's DO make you feel that way.

And going way back in this thread - someone asked if folks will get more or less fp's because of this policy. It occurs to me - that with the new policy in place- MY family - when we qualify - will most likley be getting more child swap passes. Most of the time, we don't bother with child swap passes because fp's are enough. Child swap - as it is currently done at Disney - allows guests an open ended return window for the rest of the day they are issued. It is perfectly legitimate to use them late in the day, and child swap pass users must go through the fastpass line.

I actually wish WDW did child swap the way Universal does. Universal has a waiting room at the ride loading area- AFTER the preshow. The swap occurs at the front of the line. Using child swap on a WDW attraction like Soarin' or Test Track is riduculous because it takes over half an hour to complete the child swap. (i.e. for the second set of riders to ride, double preshow) At Universal, it is MUCH faster.

Actually I found out about the AAA discounts/perks thanks to a certain non-Disney website, not AAA. The AAA website has (almost) no specific information. My AAA agent did not do her job. She literally made about as many errors as she could have made, including two that nearly wrecked the vacation. She did not inform me of any of the discounts. The only thing she was asked to book was the room and ME! I did all the rest.

 

[Jennasis]

Perhaps we are not taking opposite sides of an issue, so much as looking at it from different angles. What I'm saying is that just because a thing is written doesn't make it unquestionable in my mind, far from it. I read in your posts that being written equals legitimacy. That it is not NORMAL to question a written policy. I am simply stating that questioning the examples you gave - posted check out times, for example- is the NORMALfor many folks. I agree that not everyone is smart enough to question writeen information - but that maybe we should all question such things as price tags. (another example you gave)

To use another of your examples - according to Mapquest and other sites/GPS's - my address was NOT at all where they had me on the map. I ALWAYS have to tell delivery folks that the map they are seeing is incorrect. So yes, even addresses have to be double checked.

The one e-ride night sign we saw did not spell out what e-ride was. So that's a fine example where Disney did not spell out policy loud and clear for every new guest. If you simply looked at the 'printed' information, you would have assumed that the sign did not apply to YOU - when it did. I'm pretty sure Disney did that intentionally. That's what I'm saying. They've long been in the game of not fully publicizing information - so we all SHOULD make a habit of being well informed. Fastpass policy is no different. I'm not going to be rude to staff that enforces it a certain way - but I am always going to request clarification.

Getting more on subject, child swap - for many years - was not publicized by Disney. The only way to find out about it was to ask, or have a staff member tell you about it. Even there, I've witnessed many children excluded at a ride entrance due to height, and the CM did NOT even mention child swap as an option. There STILL is no sign at any attraction that I am aware of which informs guests that they can request one. So maybe we're talking semantics here- but in effect- ALMOST the only way to find out about child swap is to ASK at the attraction about it, and some staff are VERY reluctant to give them out!

Does that make childswap pass users rule breakers? Sometimes CM's DO make you feel that way.

And going way back in this thread - someone asked if folks will get more or less fp's because of this policy. It occurs to me - that with the new policy in place- MY family - when we qualify - will most likley be getting more child swap passes on future trips. Most of the time, we don't bother with child swap passes because fp's are enough. Child swap - as it is currently done at Disney - allows guests an open ended return window for the rest of the day they are issued. It is perfectly legitimate to use them late in the day, and child swap pass users must go through the fastpass line.

I actually wish WDW did child swap the way Universal does. Universal provides a waiting room right near the ride loading area- AFTER the preshow. The swap occurs at the front of the line. Using child swap on a WDW attraction like Soarin' or Test Track is riduculous because it takes over half an hour to complete the child swap. (i.e. for the second set of riders to ride) At Universal, it is MUCH faster.

Actually I found out about the AAA discounts/perks thanks to a certain non-Disney website, not AAA. The AAA website has almost no specific information. My AAA agent did not do her job. She literally made about as many errors as she could have made, including two that nearly wrecked the vacation. She did not inform me of any of the discounts. The only thing she was asked to book was the room and ME! I did all the rest.

1. You didn't quote anyone, so I just wanted to clarify who you are speaking to? (See, I DO ask questions sometimes! )

2. I haven't questioned printed things (specifically FP) at Disney because I haven't needed to operate outside of what the printed info says, for the most part...so far. If something came up where I needed to do something that seemed to clash with what was written, of course I'd ask. FP just wasn't one of those things. I have asked for clarification on AAA parking passes, DDP stuff etc (especially the DDP. If you go by what Disney printed you might think you can only get a popcorn, piece of fruit or a bottle of soda as a snack credit , but that is not the case.)

3. What I don't like is when you say "not everyone is smart enough to question written information." That is presumptuous and just a bit rude. Not everyone NEEDS to question every bit of written info.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Earlier I was responding to vacationclub -as was the prior post...but too many responses happened in between.

That's cool. I figured it was all water under the bridge (which is why I was stymied where the poster was getting her "morally wrong" from).

This is more or less my position as well:

QUOTE=WDSearcher;44300183]The second part.

"why is this still such a big issue. Yes, for a few years the system has allowed you to get a pass and come back whenever though on the pass it stated a specific time. Now they are holding people to it. Not a big deal if you followed the rules from the beginning. In fact it is that very reason they are now coming down hard on the time."

It's just the way it's worded that makes it incorrect in the reasoning.

Saying "Not a big deal if you followed the rules from the beginning." implies that people who used FPs after their noted time were breaking the rules. Clearly, they were not, or CMs would not have been accepting late FPs as a rule throughout the parks. Since Disney was openly allowing it and not making any move to change it, it was not a rule people were breaking.

And because it was not a rule being even remotely enforced prior to now, it is NOT "in fact" the "very reason they are now coming down hard on the time". The reason that Disney has instituted a hard line on FP return times is in preparation of XPass and other programs coming in the future that will very much depend on people using their FPs only during the time given.

It has very little to do with Disney trying to stop people who weren't following the "rules" -- it's more about them officially saying that there ARE rules.

[/QUOTE]

And I can go along with what Magicbob says. It's not just the quoted post I was referring to, it was the aggregate. I've been on the DIS a long time...I've seen many diiscussions many times.....


As I stated before, this really is only a topical discussion in my mind. I came to this thread to share my personal experience on the week of 3/7, and to see what others have experienced this past week....

 

[KellyNY]

vacationclub, perhaps we are not taking opposite sides of an issue, so much as looking at it from different angles. Just because a thing is written doesn't make it unquestionable in my mind. I read in your posts that being written equals legitimacy. That it is not NORMAL to question something that's written. I am simply stating that questioning the examples you gave - posted check out times, for example- is the NORMALfor many folks. I agree that not everyone is smart enough to question written information, nor do they always have cause - but that maybe we should all question such things as price tags. (another example you gave)

To use another of your examples - according to Mapquest and GPS's - my address was NOT where they had me on the map. So yes, even addresses have to be double checked.

The one e-ride night sign we saw did not spell out what e-ride was. So it's a fine example where Disney did not spell out policy loud and clear. If you simply looked at the 'printed' information, you would have assumed that the sign did not apply to YOU. I'm pretty sure Disney did that intentionally. E-ride only worked if it was 'exclusive.' That's what I'm saying. We all SHOULD make a habit of being well informed. Fastpass policy is no different. It's wise to request clarification.

Getting more on subject, child swap - for many years - was not publicized by Disney. There STILL is no sign at any attraction that I am aware of which informs guests that they can request one. So maybe we're talking semantics here- but in effect- ALMOST the only way to find out about child swap is to ASK at the attraction about it, and some staff are VERY reluctant to give them out!

Does that make childswap pass users rule breakers? Sometimes CM's DO make you feel that way.

And going way back in this thread - someone asked if folks will get more or less fp's because of this policy. It occurs to me - that with the new policy in place- MY family - when we qualify - will most likley be getting more child swap passes. Most of the time, we don't bother with child swap passes because fp's are enough. Child swap - as it is currently done at Disney - allows guests an open ended return window for the rest of the day they are issued. It is perfectly legitimate to use them late in the day, and child swap pass users must go through the fastpass line.

I actually wish WDW did child swap the way Universal does. Universal has a waiting room at the ride loading area- AFTER the preshow. The swap occurs at the front of the line. Using child swap on a WDW attraction like Soarin' or Test Track is riduculous because it takes over half an hour to complete the child swap. (i.e. for the second set of riders to ride, double preshow) At Universal, it is MUCH faster.

Actually I found out about the AAA discounts/perks thanks to a certain non-Disney website, not AAA. The AAA website has (almost) no specific information. My AAA agent did not do her job. She literally made about as many errors as she could have made, including two that nearly wrecked the vacation. She did not inform me of any of the discounts. The only thing she was asked to book was the room and ME! I did all the rest.

Which part of FP you do not understand? I think this time they made it very clear. If you still have questions, please ask for clarification but please understand that what is printed is what you expected to do, like it or not. To have a question and to question something are two different things.

 

[vacationclub]

vacationclub, perhaps we are not taking opposite sides of an issue, so much as looking at it from different angles. Just because a thing is written doesn't make it unquestionable in my mind.

So, what's the name of the street I live on? There's a sign posted, but should I believe it? How many days are on my 10 day park hopper? Is it 10, or should I question it? The calendar says it's march....but is it really? Maybe I should look into that too.

I am simply stating that questioning the examples you gave - posted check out times, for example- is the NORMALfor many folks. I agree that not everyone is smart enough to question written information, nor do they always have cause - but that maybe we should all question such things as price tags. (another example you gave)

Not "smart enough" to question written information? Wow, nice back-handed insult at the vast majority of Disney guests who didn't know about something that Disney never told them and in fact told them something different.

You can question price tags if you wish, but it's in the best interest of a seller to clearly tell the buyer that the product is on sale to enhance sales. They want you to know this, so it's not likely they would keep this from you. Thus, shoppers aren't under any pressure to continuously ask about every single product. If it's on sale....they will most likely tell you.

To use another of your examples - according to Mapquest and GPS's - my address was NOT where they had me on the map. So yes, even addresses have to be double checked.

Your address is your address. Only Mapquest and GPSs don't know this. It doesn't change your address, or challenge your knowledge of where you actually are. The point is that some things, like where you live, are somewhat certain, and not a variable, and thus don't require any questioning.

The one e-ride night sign we saw did not spell out what e-ride was. So it's a fine example where Disney did not spell out policy loud and clear. If you simply looked at the 'printed' information, you would have assumed that the sign did not apply to YOU. I'm pretty sure Disney did that intentionally. E-ride only worked if it was 'exclusive.' That's what I'm saying. We all SHOULD make a habit of being well informed. Fastpass policy is no different. It's wise to request clarification.

Another bad example. They posted a sign that left a question in your mind causing you to inquire. FP didnt' do that. They gave specific absolute info on return rules. There was no reason to ask what time you return....because they told you already. There was nothing to request clarification of.

Getting more on subject, child swap - for many years - was not publicized by Disney. There STILL is no sign at any attraction that I am aware of which informs guests that they can request one. So maybe we're talking semantics here- but in effect- ALMOST the only way to find out about child swap is to ASK at the attraction about it, and some staff are VERY reluctant to give them out!

Again, Disney didn't put up a sign that says "we don't do child swap" so it left a question in your mind if they did it or not. So you asked. FP didn't (and still doesn't) do this. They told you the specifics up front.

Does that make childswap pass users rule breakers? Sometimes CM's DO make you feel that way.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything I've talked about.

Actually I found out about the AAA discounts/perks thanks to a certain non-Disney website, not AAA. The AAA website has (almost) no specific information. My AAA agent did not do her job. She literally made about as many errors as she could have made, including two that nearly wrecked the vacation. She did not inform me of any of the discounts. The only thing she was asked to book was the room and ME! I did all the rest.

You need to look deeper. I've found pages upon pages of places that offer discounts for AAA. You might need to login based on your local provider of AAA. It's there.

Regardless, it has no comparison to FP, because there isn't a sign at the register that says "we don't take AAA", that you must question to find out of they are really lying and that they really do take AAA. That's what FP users were being expected to do by the poster I responded to, and that
response is what you've now taken issue with.

 

[BNM]

Vacation club, what is your POINT? You keep arguing but what are you really trying to say? That you shouldn't have been expected to know about the ability to use FP late? Fine, you shouldn't have been expected to know. Can we move on now?