Anyone NOT Worried About the Upcoming "Crisis"?

[MrMarv]

Those are the same Democrats (starting with Nancy Pelosi, who knows nothing about international protocol!!!) who won't let anybody drill off either coast, or widen the drilling zone in the Gulf of Mexico, and then have the audacity to go to Saudi Arabia and beg them to drill more, or face a lawsuit!!!!

Audacity indeed!!!

 

[DisFlan]

We're heading into the main show for the presidential election. We'll be hearing all kinds of things - mostly what they think we want to hear. I'm really hoping that this time the media holds some feet to the fire for real answers. Or at least makes a good try. I think we can take anything we hear from now until November with a huge lump of salt.

And I agree that real facts and figures are hard to come by. We're all going to have to dig deeper and not ignore this election. Write to or email your politicians, both state and federal, and let them KNOW how you feel and what you need. You'd be surprised how effective this can be. They pay attention when their votes are on the line.

DisFlan

 

[fkj2]

The media has definitely 'gone negative' and is definitely as cynical as can be.

But comparing current economic conditions to the Great Depression is insane and reeks of sensationalism.

While some may dislike the news they hear at 6 P.M. every day, it is important to remember that we enjoy among the most open medium for news distribution worldwide. The media can say whatever they choose and it's our job to sort out and sift through what's reported to find the truth. And they're not lying about flooding in the Midwest, drought in Australia, fires in California, quakes in China, cyclones in Myanmar, distress in the banking system, and on and on.

Certainly statistics can be manipulated, but when your friends and neighbors tell you their house is in foreclosure, or they don't have enough to eat, or their child can't get a student loan for college, those are irrefutable facts to the individual hearing the story.

Nobody is hoping this turns into another "Great Depression," but history demonstrates recurring patterns of behavior. The "Roaring Twenties" were so named because everyone was benefitting from the good times and the levitating stock market--just before everything tanked. I am the child of children raised during the Depression: I remember their stories all too well.

Although no one can say with certainty how the economic situation will evolve, it seems reasonable to evaluate the good news AND the bad before pronouncing sensationalistic reporting.

As for which political party has the best program to deal with problems, in the 35 years since the "first" energy crisis, neither seems to have the wherewithall to do anything significant. I want to vote for the best, most qualified person for the job and I don't care what race or gender he/she is. Frankly, I'm a bit put off by some women saying they wouldn't support Barrack Obama because it was "Hilliary's time;" a woman's time to be president. Says WHO? JUST because she's a woman? What an insult to women of intelligence in this country! Would you say that African-Americans ONLY voted for Barrack Obama because of his race?

But we keep voting (or around 35% of us do, give or take a few percentage points.) And many of it do it based on "soundbites"; Politician A says he's for health care, jobs, national security, protecting Medicare and Social Security, education, etc. Have you really heard anyone campaign against those things? What we don't hear is how everything gets paid for. But it sounds good.

The other perspective is global: The United States is NOT the only country experiencing economic problems and as such, our economy will not be insulated from problems that exist in other countries.

We have a tendency to look closely at our own personal situation and experience. Gasoline prices not affecting you yet? Great. Congratulations. You're in good shape. Not everyone is, though. It takes time to trickle down. Check back on this thread in 4 months or so and let us know if your circumstances have changed.

I talked to a neighbor yesterday who works for a company that sells fertilizer, seed, etc. to farmers. We spoke of the flooding out in Missouri (the one that will help wipe out the spring planting), and of how many farmers will need to re-plant corn. (Oh, and fertilizers up to $630 a ton. Diesel's between $4.65-$4.85 a gallon. Tractors that farmers use primarily run on diesel. Do not be concerned that you will be further affected by higher food prices in a few months.) I responded farmers would probably switch to planting soybeans. She said, no, that the soy bean seed is only yielding about 70% germination and there isn't really any seed available. No seed; no soybean crop, or certainly a diminished yield from what was planted. Limited soybean crop; higher prices for soy products. There's a trend here...

 

[global_mom]

There was this saying: God, give me the strength to change what I can and to accept what I cannot change. Well, most of it is politics and media I'd say.

There is another part to that phrase....."and the strength to know the difference". That part is quite crucial.

 

[Mo-Yo]

Credibility is lost when science is used to lie. Excuse me for not rushing to read literature suggested by someone who is clearly hostile/sarcastic to my musings.

I think the scare tactics come into play when we use "musings" to support our beliefs instead of facts. Just because we believe something doesn't make it a fact.

I am curious, Mermaid Mom, where you got the information to support your contention that our Presidential election and our "weakness" (As defined by you) are the root of our high oil prices. I asked that question, but you neglected to
answer it. Everyone has a theory on everything, but if we are going to have a discussion, it helps to working from some provable facts.

Also, to blame the Democratic congress, which so far has rarely had enough majority to overide a veto on our current energy policy is illogical. I agree with teh OP who said however that both parties have failed us terribly since the 70's oil crisis by failing to adopt policies that support the development of renewable energy.

 

[Mo-Yo]

Geez, while MermaidsMom was away.....
What do Republican scare tactics have to do with the FACT that the price of a barrel of oil has more than DOUBLED since Democrats took over the House and Senate in 2006?

Don't forget, it is also a fact that oil jumped from $30 a barrel when Bush took office in 2000 to $60 in 2005 with a brief jump to $75 in August 2006 before returning to $60 in 2007. Was the Republican controlled congress responsible for that? Seems like a trend....

 

[MermaidsMom]

I think the scare tactics come into play when we use "musings" to support our beliefs instead of facts. Just because we believe something doesn't make it a fact.
I am curious, Mermaid Mom, where you got the information to support your contention that our Presidential election and our "weakness" (As defined by you) are the root of our high oil prices. I asked that question, but you neglected to
answer it. Everyone has a theory on everything, but if we are going to have a discussion, it helps to working from some provable facts.

Also, to blame the Democratic congress, which so far has rarely had enough majority to overide a veto on our current energy policy is illogical. I agree with teh OP who said however that both parties have failed us terribly since the 70's oil crisis by failing to adopt policies that support the development of renewable energy.

This point and this point alone needs to be broadcast 24 hours a day on all of the networks. This price increase did not happen by chance. With the rest of the world seeing the direction of our Presidential campaign, get ready to be fleeced on a lot of things in the future. They smell weakness because it's clear there is no will to defend ourselves if the GOP isn't there anymore. Sure they aren't perfect, but the alternative will be disaster.

If you read my post concerning the Democratic Congress closely, you will see I made the point of relating it to how the left has blamed everything on Bush all these years (turn about fair play?). It is equally absurd to blame everything on a Democratic Congress. Whether Democrat or Republican neither party is responsible for our economy. We need to move beyond this idea that government is the source of our bounty. The Office of President is very ceremonial and he or she cannot solve or be held responsible for our problems. They simply set a tone for the country, have the bully pulpit and veto power.

I am confused about your "facts" remark. I explained in an earlier post why I am not interested in your "facts", once again, are you not reading the entire post? If you need a pie chart or a scientist to tell you that powerful nations are in competition with each other and when one smells weakness they exploit it, then I cannot comment. I suggest- my opinion- my thoughts on the matter- my musings, are everything I stated above. Your mocking tone will not change that.

Your best point is, "Just because you believe something doesn't make it a fact", those are words to live by, Mo Yo, they apply both ways.

 

[las3888]

If you read my post concerning the Democratic Congress closely, you will see I made the point of relating it to how the left has blamed everything on Bush all these years (turn about fair play?). It is equally absurd to blame everything on a Democratic Congress. Whether Democrat or Republican neither party is responsible for our economy. We need to move beyond this idea that government is the source of our bounty. The Office of President is very ceremonial and he or she cannot solve or be held responsible for our problems. They simply set a tone for the country, have the bully pulpit and veto power.

I am confused about your "facts" remark. I explained in an earlier post why I am not interested in your "facts", once again, are you not reading the entire post? If you need a pie chart or a scientist to tell you that powerful nations are in competition with each other and when one smells weakness they exploit it, then I cannot comment. I suggest- my opinion- my thoughts on the matter- my musings, are everything I stated above. Your mocking tone will not change that.

Your best point is, "Just because you believe something doesn't make it a fact", those are words to live by, Mo Yo, they apply both ways.

I think you make a lot of sense...thanks for your post!

 

[bdcp]

The current oil prices are not set by our congress or President. They are market driven and it is a world market. Between the foreign oil market and futures traders as well as WORLDWIDE consumption, we are where we are. What we need is independence from the world oil market which we will never have unless we can drill and refine our own oil and perfect other methods or like the French, take some pressure off by using nuclear power which has proven to be very, very safe. A little common sense and logic goes a long way and I wish people would use it instead of knee jerk emotion.

 

[Mo-Yo]

The current oil prices are not set by our congress or President. They are market driven and it is a world market. Between the foreign oil market and futures traders as well as WORLDWIDE consumption, we are where we are. What we need is independence from the world oil market which we will never have unless we can drill and refine our own oil and perfect other methods or like the French, take some pressure off by using nuclear power which has proven to be very, very safe. A little common sense and logic goes a long way and I wish people would use it instead of knee jerk emotion.

Well said.

 

[MrMarv]

It's safe to say that the 'upcoming' crisis is here, and is substantially worse in some parts of the country than others.

Detroit's automakers have to reinvent themselves, and the sooner the better.

 

[snowbunny]

…remember that we're getting our "news" about the economy from a national media of whom the vast majority are actively campaigning for a certain presidential candidate. Their objective is to paint an entirely bleak picture to pave the way for their candidate to win.

Chris Matthews 9/10/2006: "Every time I look at a poll--and I expect McCain to win every one of these polls. The press loves McCain. We're his base."

So yes I agree, the media pundits are totally fluffing up McCain same as they did GWB (all that straight talkin mavericky stuff, wow!) Hard to figure out, however, is how $4/gallon gas, $5 trillion flushed down the hole in Iraq, and impending bank failures actually help the candidate running for Bush's third term?

Also, for those that do not understand the workings of Congress, its hands are tied as the Democrats do not have a veto-proof majority. Very little has and will get done to undo the damage until there is a change in the executive branch.

 

[RACHELSMOM1]

Chris Matthews 9/10/2006: "Every time I look at a poll--and I expect McCain to win every one of these polls. The press loves McCain. We're his base."

So yes I agree, the media pundits are totally fluffing up McCain same as they did GWB (all that straight talkin mavericky stuff, wow!) Hard to figure out, however, is how $4/gallon gas, $5 trillion flushed down the hole in Iraq, and impending bank failures actually help the candidate running for Bush's third term?

Also, for those that do not understand the workings of Congress, its hands are tied as the Democrats do not have a veto-proof majority. Very little has and will get done to undo the damage until there is a change in the executive branch.

Well, where have you been listening to the news. The media have chosen Barak Hussein Obama to be their guy!!

 

[Kay1]

Well, where have you been listening to the news. The media have chosen Barak Hussein Obama to be their guy!!

I just don't agree with you at all. If that were so, why did they play footage of his pastor almost nonstop? Most of the media are controlled by their corporate owners, though Fox is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and Alwaleed bin Talal, a Saudi Prince. Alwaleed openly brags about his influence over what's presented to us via Fox. I think its best to dig for information from multiple sources.

 

[GothTink]

Life goes in cycles - economy gets better, economy gets worse...prices go up, prices go down...and life goes on.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. Not much we can do but muddle through.

 

[Mo-Yo]

Fox is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and Alwaleed bin Talal, a Saudi Prince. Alwaleed openly brags about his influence over what's presented to us via Fox. I think its best to dig for information from multiple sources.

So let me get this straight. There is no left wing conspiracy?

And I was about to discount all that I have read from economists, geologists, environmentalists, biologists, engineers and other scientists and other widely- respected professionals. I was going to stop trying to understand the issues and take the word of Rush and O'Reilly. I was almost relieved at no longer needing to support my beliefs with any sort of logic or proof.

After all, facts aren't facts when it is easier to stick your head in the sand and blame the media and anyone with different views than yours.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[las3888]

Well, where have you been listening to the news. The media have chosen Barak Hussein Obama to be their guy!!

Agreed...you no longer hear the press fawning over McCain like they used to. They just LOVED it when he would buck the Republicans and side with the Democrats. In the press's eyes, that's what made him a 'maverick.' Now that there is a Democratic nominee, the press doesn't seem to appreciate McCain's 'maverick-ness'...all we hear about is how 'old' he is...

My 2 cents...

 

[MermaidsMom]

Originally Posted by snowbunny
Chris Matthews 9/10/2006: "Every time I look at a poll--and I expect McCain to win every one of these polls. The press loves McCain. We're his base."

2006 was a long time ago in the political world. Matthews probably meant it at the time he said it because McCain was a constant thorn in Bush's side, and the side of most all republicans. They never knew what he would say and they couldn't count on him to vote how they wanted or follow the party line. This is why the republicans are having such a hard time accepting him. Matthews and friends loved any republican that was liberal and they especially loved McCain.

Matthews couldn't imagine then that in 2008 there would be Obama giving him a "thrill up his leg" (his words as reported in the HuffingtonPost.com on February 13, 2008). HuffingtonPost.com also reported he has cried at Obama speeches and compared Obama to Jesus.

Now the media's problem will be to link McCain to conseratives after all these years of the press corp using his liberalism to their advantage. The lame "Bush's third term" can't work when everyone knows Bush and McCain don't get along. Maybe the young will buy it but they won't vote. It's a waste of time to shout slogans when there a so many problems in this country.

I think most people basically want the same things, we have different ideas about how to get them. To divide and waste years fighting about who is right accomplishes nothing. Isn't that what Obama is saying? I think McCain said it somewhere along the line too.

 

[3happydancers]

Great point! Fixed incomes usually get an increase each year however small. Our income hasn't changed in 4 years. Actually it's decreased due to larger co-pays and deductibles for insurances.

I hear you!!! We are in the same boat. No increases in several years and it looks as though this year is no exception. Yet, my electric has gone up over $50.00 a month, heating fuel is up to about 4.39 gal, gas on L.I. is approx 4.25 gal and our grocery bill has increased quite a bit as well. Oh, and should I mention that over the last 5 years our property/school taxes have increased by approx 2000.00 a year!!!! And yes, our co-pays and deductibles for insurance has also increased. You bet we are feeling the pinch but some how we are managing. The thing is that we are getting to the point that we simply can't stretch the dollar any further. We already live simply, no extra cable channels, no car loans, no going out to dinner or movies. Recently, we have decided to put a halt to accepting party invitations. For the month of June alone we received 7 for various graduations & surprise birthdays. All at least an hours drive in each direction meaning more gas usage which is simply not in the budget not to mention the gift itself.

The one thing that keeps me sane is knowing that we paid cash for our upcoming trip that had been planned last year.

 

[brockscandy]

Yes, I say this works both ways as well.
The media who is pro DNC will say we are headed for a recession.

The GOP says we are paying more because China is using more oil.

I want proof to back it up. I want figures. I want to see how this oil money is being spent.

Don't just throw something out there and expect for me to believe it because I have faith in the person saying it.

As far as I am concerned. The oil company used Katrina as a reason to raise prices the way they did, and they never looked back.

Well, I certainly can't prove it to you, but my husband works for one of those dreaded oil companies (and we aren't getting rich by the way) and he can't buy all the supplies he needs because it is all going to China - is distributors tell him that. My state representative also went to China because he is very knowledgable in the energy area and was told by the Chinese government they are buying everything they can get their hands on. They are very upfront about it. He said they are trying to convince Canada to sell them oil instead of selling it to us.