Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[Aisling]

A close friend is unschooling her children, ages 1, 7 and 9. They're doing Radical Unschooling, which means it goes beyond academics and is a general lifestyle where the children do whatever they want and learn from their experiences through that freedom. The 7 and 9 year olds can't read at all and my friend doesn't believe in teaching, that when they;re ready, they'll pick it up. Her husband is totally against this and it's ruining their marriage. He says she's creating monsters by allowing the children to live without rules and discipline. She says this is the best way to raise kids to be free-thinkers.

Have any here been unschoolers and then saw it was a mistake as your children got older? All we hear her say is that those kind of children are better adults. She has no proof,though, except from all the reading she's done on Radical Unschooling websites. I'd like to show her the other side, the negative side. I respect her and don't belittle her choice, but I'd like to discuss both sides with her when we talk about it, which is very often, as it's the focal point of her life.

Anyone?

 

[quasar4legs]

My son attended school from kinder to year 5 and then we unschooled from year 6 until he went to university at 15.

We still had family rules and discipline but our son was free to make his own educational choices and I saw myself as someone that worked to facilitate his interests. Our local area had a very active homeschooling/unschooling community so we had lots of opportunity to mix with other families.

Unschooling certainly worked well for our son but I will concede that our son was very self motivated to learn and we were financially able to employ tutors when he was keen to pursue a topic in more detail.

We unschooled based on the premise that 'education is not the filling of a bucket but the lighting of a fire'.

I guess hindsight will always be 20/20 but we have no regrets about the choices we made, mainstream school did not provide the sort of educational opportunities that we wanted for our son.

Without exception all of the children that we were involved during our years of unschooling are now either gainfully employed or continuing on with tertiary study.

Cheers

 

[cornflake]

A close friend is unschooling her children, ages 1, 7 and 9. They're doing Radical Unschooling, which means it goes beyond academics and is a general lifestyle where the children do whatever they want and learn from their experiences through that freedom. The 7 and 9 year olds can't read at all and my friend doesn't believe in teaching, that when they;re ready, they'll pick it up. Her husband is totally against this and it's ruining their marriage. He says she's creating monsters by allowing the children to live without rules and discipline. She says this is the best way to raise kids to be free-thinkers.

Have any here been unschoolers and then saw it was a mistake as your children got older? All we hear her say is that those kind of children are better adults. She has no proof,though, except from all the reading she's done on Radical Unschooling websites. I'd like to show her the other side, the negative side. I respect her and don't belittle her choice, but I'd like to discuss both sides with her when we talk about it, which is very often, as it's the focal point of her life.

Anyone?

These people (I mean ones that sound like this, with whom I have no personal experience, but have seen on the magical teevee box) kind of fascinate me.

How is it the focal point of her life when she... doesn't do anything? I mean the idea of it is the kids do their own thing, choose whatever, and if a seven- and nine-year-old can't read their own thing clearly isn't seeking lessons from mom there.

So... what does she do?

As for providing her with examples, I think it'd be like talking to a brick wall. If she spends a lot of time reading websites that reinforce this idea and go on about how great it is, and she's not worried about clear educational deficits, I don't think she'd be swayed too easily.

Is that legal in their state? There's no measure or standard kids not enrolled in a school have to meet? He - or someone else - could probably report her to the dept. of education or something of the sort.

 

[cornflake]

I had a thought... I know, look out, heh...

If she so believes this will make her kids free thinkers.. .what's her goal?

Free thinking? Like whom? Because I'd wager anyone she can name is well educated in one fashion or another.

In addition, she wants them to be free thinkers so... what? They can sit around and think? They won't get into college the way they're going, not even hippie colleges. Those require reading. They'll also be hampered in one if they do get into a college, because they'll be missing crucial background knowledge that one has to gain to be able to secure more complex knowledge - like you have to understand multiplication before you can do algebra or trigonometry. Actually understand it, not just know to do it on a calculator.

So what's her goal for them - because it can't be 'to do whatever they want' the way she's going, as it's hampering their choices severely.

Not that this will likely make any difference to her but... yeah.

 

[hambirg]

This makes me so sad.

I think Mom needs to revisit the history of illiteracy. It's one thing to home school, or take a more child centered approach (ie. Montessori) but to simply not ensure that your child learns to read, borders on child abuse. I can't imagine anyone not realizing what a HUGE disadvantage they are putting their children at. Never mind the history and the struggle that those that came before us endured to get to this point where everyone is afforded a basic education. It baffles me.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I have friends that homeschool---not "unschool" ..but they have to prove to the state a reasonable amouint of learning etc.. I'm surprised there isn't some minimal standard.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Well she is lucky to have healthy kids. I fear for them.

If one of her kids has a medical problem in which they need physical therapy, insulin, breathing treatments, etc...I suppose she will let them choose to not do it as "free thinkers".

What if they want to drink and do drugs? I guess she is going to let her free thinking kids smoke too?

I get the whole premise of "unschooling" however this sounds like "unparenting" to me or neglect. Teaching a kid to read SETS THEM FREE TO CHOOSE.

I suppose I would lay the guilt that she is keeping them "in the dark" by NOT teaching them to read.

Does she read to them? Perhaps you can say.....why don't you read to them and see if they get interested in learning how to read?

The kids are older and the basic "baby books" will seem immature to them making it harder to teach them.

 

[fimac]

I homeschool one of my boys, but he does not unschool. I will say that 2 of my boys did teach themselves to read at a stage that you could call them unschooling. (Preschool stage.) It was totally self motivated and self driven so it can be done. However is she creating and environment in which they want to learn to read, have they tried, are there any learning disabilities in the family as a whole ?

Do they have lots of books in the home ? Why would they want to learn to read ? What intreats are they exploring and how ?

 

[Magic Mom]

OP, I've never seen any unschooler come forward and say it was a disaster. They all gush over how perfect it worked out. Maybe it did for some, but I'd be willing to bet no one will admit otherwise even if it didn't.

 

[disney junky]

Always something to learn on the DIS. I had never heard of this.

In theory, it sounds great. So do all the great theories. But in reality, can't see that is would be that successful. I still think you must learn the basics, reading, writing, basic math skills, because if you don't have these, how can you have the skills to explore?

 

[Swan4Me]

My son attended school from kinder to year 5 and then we unschooled from year 6 until he went to university at 15.

What University does he attend? I'm guessing he's almost finished, at 18-right?

 

[mjaclyn]

I've never heard of this method but it sounds kind of ridiculous. Children need guidance. There is a reason why parents are expected to raise their children. I've known people who have sent their kids to public school, private school and also taught at home. There are negatives and positives to each choice, but the thought of not teaching your children anything at all seems completely negative to me. I feel bad for her children. I would also be surprised if this is even legal. Don't you have to have your child enrolled in some kind of education by law?

 

[powellrj]

I use to read a blog where a woman did this. It was several years ago and I don't think she even posts to it anymore, but it was ridiculous. She would have the kids sweep the floors and call it PE and then they would help her bake and call the measuring math.

I think unschooling is great if you live a lifestyle where traditional school would be hard to maintain, but for most of us, unless you are able to afford the books you would need to get them the basics, and are able to teach them yourselves, its crazy.

 

[rwdavis2]

I always thought that (some) school dsitricts required the parents to register that their children are being home schooled and then provide periodic progress reports. To me, it just sounds like an excuse for the wife to be lazy.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I don't get it...

So...these "unschooled" children grow up and do whatever they want? There aren't given ANY guidlines, rules or expectaions?

Forgive me if this is rude or ignorant...But do they do things like eat with a fork? Follow the general rules of society? These things have to be taught. I understand SOME things are learned from your environment. My kids would be eating with forks anyway from seeing me do it...But what about things like potty training? Does this start later in life, after the "little kid milestones" have been reached?

I don't get how they would ever learn enough to go to college unless the parents have enough money to have them tutored almost full time. And they must REALLY be some self starters to be able to "FREELY THINK" they want to spend their studying and doing academics.

 

[torinsmom]

My son would play video games and surf the internet all day if he was given his choice. I do believe in letting the child have some choice in what they learn(I teacher at a Montessori school), but they do need some guidance, IMHO. The easiest time for a child to learn to read is between the ages of 4-6. I have taught kids older than that, but it is much harder and the kids are resistant.

I, too, would like to know how parents who unschool show their child is learning. I thought the state requires some type of testing to show progress. I would think a 9 year old not reading would be a red flag.

 

[hambirg]

I always thought that (some) school dsitricts required the parents to register that their children are being home schooled and then provide periodic progress reports. To me, it just sounds like an excuse for the wife to be lazy.

This.

You know you should tell her you have been reading about all the "unschooling" that goes on in places like Somalia and Afghanistan. Maybe they can study up on what a great success it has been in those countries.

 

[Aisling]

Without exception all of the children that we were involved during our years of unschooling are now either gainfully employed or continuing on with tertiary study.

Cheers

I was looking for the "horror stories" of children growing up with no real education except in what THEY wanted to do, even if all they wanted to do was play video games and draw. But I have to say what you wrote here is at least encouraging. Maybe her kids ha s a chance afterall?

Does she read to them? Perhaps you can say.....why don't you read to them and see if they get interested in learning how to read?

The kids are older and the basic "baby books" will seem immature to them making it harder to teach them.

She reads to them every day, they go to the library and the kids choose the books, but the oldest isn't interested in even being read to anymore. He says it's "dumb". I've asked him doesn't he want to learn to read so that he can read the instructions on his erector sets etc, and he says they come with picture instructions.

She's a good mom in that she gives them tons of attention, but when they want to watch TV for hours all day and draw, she backs off because they need to do what they need to do.

. However is she creating and environment in which they want to learn to read, have they tried, are there any learning disabilities in the family as a whole ?

Do they have lots of books in the home ? Why would they want to learn to read ? What intreats are they exploring and how ?

She has always taken them to educational places, museums, Urban wildlife walks, things like that. Every Sunday our local newspaper has things to do with the kids and she does get them out and involved.

No learning disabilities as I can see. Just kids that know they are in charge. The home environment is getting tense because dad is really getting fed up as his kids get older. She has tons of very creative puzzles but will let the kids take them all out at the same time to make their own creating, because that's what they want to do and No is an unhealthy word to her when it comes to her children exploring their own desires and needs. (except in dangerous things).

I admire her for her efforts, and it was sort of working when the kids were smaller, but now it looks like the kids just want to laze around with the brief ooh blue whales are cool, what do they eat" kind of thing. She says in their own time they'll learn what they personally NEED to learn and not what society wants them to learn. She sounds kooky, but she's not, really. She does get them excited about some really cool programs on National Geographic channel, but the kids can't do multiplication. (YET, she says.)

So...these "unschooled" children grow up and do whatever they want? There aren't given ANY guidlines, rules or expectaions?

Forgive me if this is rude or ignorant...But do they do things like eat with a fork?

I don't get how they would ever learn enough to go to college unless the parents have enough money to have them tutored almost full time. And they must REALLY be some self starters to be able to "FREELY THINK" they want to spend their studying and doing academics.

Guidelines are for safety reasons only in their house. And absolutely no spoken expectations , which can be harmful to the kids feelings. Of course she has hopes for them, but not expectations. We should never expect anything from anyone, even from our kids. This is her strong belief.

The fork thing, funny because when the older boy was maybe 6 or 7 we were in a diner and he started to comb his hair with the fork.

Anyway, she's a good woman, smart, loves her kids to pieces and is providing a stimulating environment. But they kids are starting to reject it for TV, craft projects and learning only about what interests them. They do know the alphabet song, though. I know they can identify letters but she's totally against phonics because it's "teaching" them. She's 100% sure that they'll just pick up reading when they're ready.

I'm hoping that people who have used this philosophy unsuccessfully will come forward and tell me their stories. Unless maybe all these kids really do grow up and get jobs and learn to read on their own and do math on their own?? I'm the one who could be wrong, I guess, but I don't know anyone who has Unschooled kids up to high school age. Do these children really, truly learn enough on their own without being "taught"?

One last thing, my dear friend and I have a long and warm relationship. We can really talk things out without hurting each other. She has taught me a lot. I just need some substance if I'm going to discuss the negatives with her.

Wow that was long!

 

[Aisling]

http://homeschoolinginnewyorkcity.blogspot.com/2008/01/unschooling-revisited-someone-asked-me.html

I just wanted to add this to explain the idea behind unschooling to show that my friend isn't a wacko. It sounds like a great idea. BUT I'm trying to find out the success rate of these children as far as having literacy and math skills later on. That's the reason for this thread, not to bash anyone. I'll make fun of her but I can't bash a woman who really believes she's doing what's best for her children. She just gives me a headache sometimes!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Unschooling is just another form of home schooling. In the end, the success or failure is dependant on the parents involvement. If the parents are not involved enough, it fails. If this mother thinks that she will never have to help "light the fire", she is likely setting her children up for a lifetime of failure.