Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[DisneyLoverUSA]

I homeschooled my kids off and on for several years but they first went through basic learning in private school learning to read and write and do basic math before I took over.

I have researched this unschooling and radical unschooling and someone was right when they said it is LAZY and it is UNPARENTING.

In my opinion, someone who has a NINE YEAR OLD child who can't read should have child protective services called on her. That is negelect and borderline abuse.

These ppl are whacky. They believe you let your kids do what they want, when they want, you never tell them no, they don't have set mealtimes, they eat whatever they want, there are no set bedtimes. They believe in natural consequences, no discipline whatsoever. For example, they don't make the kids brush their teeth. So in turn the kids teeth will rot. NATURAL CONSEQUENCE. The kids want to cuss around other adults and children, they let them. Natural consequence would be nobody will come back around the kids because of their vulgar unruly behavior.

I have seen some news shows do little expose's on Radical Unschooling and it causes a big outrage and stir every time they do it.

Children DO NEED to be taught. How to read, how to write, how to do basic math, given lots of books to read and kept mentally stimulated and encouraged to learn. Visiting museums and measuring baking goods does not teach you math.

Most states do have rules about kids in homeschool having to be in school so many days a year and most districts require you report to them what curriculum you plan on using. Your friend must be in an area that has ZERO regulation for homeschoolers. Someone who has a nine year old who can't read should be thrown in jail until she agrees to teach her children how to read.

I get a knot in my stomach just thinking about those lazy parents who call themselves radical unschoolers.

I hope that husband who is fed up with his wife, divorces her and takes her to court and tells the judge that his kids can't even read because the mom refuses to teach them or let them go to school and he takes the kids away from her. If I knew her, I would turn her in myself.

That's why you don't KNOW too many unschoolers because they keep themselves secret. Nobody in the mainstream homeschooling community acknowledges radical unschooling as valid or worthy. Most of the time you cannot even join local homeschool organizations unless you actively TEACH your children. That was a requirement of our group. No unschoolers allowed.

 

[rwdavis2]

This.

You know you should tell her you have been reading about all the "unschooling" that goes on in places like Somalia and Afghanistan. Maybe they can study up on what a great success it has been in those countries.

I don;t quite understand your point but, what happens in Somalia and Afghanistan are pretty low on my "do I care list".

 

[Aisling]

Unschooling is just another form of home schooling. In the end, the success or failure is dependant on the parents involvement. If the parents are not involved enough, it fails. If this mother thinks that she will never have to help "light the fire", she is likely setting her children up for a lifetime of failure.

Bama, homeschooling uses a curriculum, even if they don't actually use it, know what I mean?

Unschooling means no curriculum, no teaching, child-led 100%.

Hearing "homeschooling" doesn't make me go . Unschooling does. But then aagin, I may be wrong about the success of UNschooling.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Bama, homeschooling uses a curriculum, even if they don't actually use it, know what I mean?

Unschooling means no curriculum, no teaching, child-led 100%.

Hearing "homeschooling" doesn't make me go . Unschooling does. But then aagin, I may be wrong about the success of UNschooling.

Yeah, I get that, but it still amounts to home schooling in that the kids are meant to gain their education at home.

Question - Is it legal in America to completely withhold an education if the child wishes? In other words, if the child never wishes to learn ANYTHING, is that allowed, or does the government step in?

 

[rwdavis2]

....
Guidelines are for safety reasons only in their house. And absolutely no spoken expectations , which can be harmful to the kids feelings. Of course she has hopes for them, but not expectations. We should never expect anything from anyone, even from our kids. This is her strong belief.

...

Anyway, she's a good woman, smart, loves her kids to pieces and is providing a stimulating environment. But they kids are starting to reject it for TV, craft projects and learning only about what interests them. They do know the alphabet song, though. I know they can identify letters but she's totally against phonics because it's "teaching" them. She's 100% sure that they'll just pick up reading when they're ready.

.....

Not expect anything of anyone? That's utter nonsense. I expect people to support themselves and not force me (via txes) to support them if they can help it.

What is she going to do if these kids reach their teen years not knowing how to read? Write? She will have a couple of uneducated wild animals that she will then dump on society and then they will be OUR problem. Their feelings? Spare me.

Knowing only the alphabet may not get them a job doing anything other than manual labor but it may help them pass a field sobriety test.


I don't doubt her sincerity or warmth but it sounds like shes projecting some bad thing that happened in her past in regards to education on to her kids.

 

[rwdavis2]

Yeah, I get that, but it still amounts to home schooling in that the kids are meant to gain their education at home.

Question - Is it legal in America to completely withhold an education if the child wishes? In other words, if the child never wishes to learn ANYTHING, is that allowed, or does the government step in?

I think, here in MD, the county is involved in determining if the child is actually learning what is required. What is required can be debatable but not the fact that children are required to learn.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I respect a parent's rights to teach their children in whatever way they wish, but in a society in which we are forced to support those who cannot support themselves, I would hope that the government has at least some minimum standard that the parents have to sustain.

We need blue collared workers in America as much as white collared workers, but keeping any job requires a work ethic - and (generally) an ability to read and write at least at a fundamental level.

 

[Aisling]

I hope that husband who is fed up with his wife, divorces her and takes her to court and tells the judge that his kids can't even read because the mom refuses to teach them or let them go to school and he takes the kids away from her. If I knew her, I would turn her in myself.

Ok, this is scary. It was a non-issue all these years mainly because the kids were younger. She never criticized my way of raising my kids (crunchy-lite but with formal education), and I never did it to her. Her DH has always been a quiet man, leaving the mothering stuff to his wife including the education decisions, but now he's ready to flip his lid.

That's not my issue, though. I've been looking for personal stories of unschooling gone bad to show her it may not be all that she thinks it is. I can't find any.

I wouldn't call the authorities on her, though. Just couldn;t do it. She "reports" to the state as a homeschooler.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

So Radical Unschooling means you just let your kid grow up to be an uneducated hick that can't even read? Way to go lazy parents.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...I've been looking for personal stories of unschooling gone bad to show her it may not be all that she thinks it is. I can't find any...

Even if they have problems, radicals blame them on something else. You are not going to find what you are looking for, because the people who try things like this are not the type to admit that they were wrong - or, more to the point, that everyone else was right.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

So Radical Unschooling means you just let your kid grow up to be an uneducated hick that can't even read? Way to go lazy parents.

Not necessarily - if done properly, the kids develop a desire to become educated and learn to drive that education themselves.

Of course, you can accomplish the same things within the structure of any educational system. Why these parents think that this is the only way to have their kids take control of their own lives and their own education is beyond me.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Not necessarily - if done properly, the kids develop a desire to become educated and learn to drive that education themselves.

Of course, you can accomplish the same things within the structure of any educational system. Why these parents think that this is the only way to have their kids take control of their own lives and their own education is beyond me.

I don't get that, but to each their own I guess.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Ok, this is scary. It was a non-issue all these years mainly because the kids were younger. She never criticized my way of raising my kids (crunchy-lite but with formal education), and I never did it to her. Her DH has always been a quiet man, leaving the mothering stuff to his wife including the education decisions, but now he's ready to flip his lid.

That's not my issue, though. I've been looking for personal stories of unschooling gone bad to show her it may not be all that she thinks it is. I can't find any.

I wouldn't call the authorities on her, though. Just couldn;t do it. She "reports" to the state as a homeschooler.

Yes, UNSCHOOLERS "report" to the state as homeschoolers and they LIE and falsify their testimony in regards to their children's learning. Unschooling communities post for all to use statements of how the kids are being educated. They play on words and make it sound like they are actually teaching them. I have seen these letters and statements that they use to turn into the school board to keep from getting their kids taken away from them. It's a big ole crock of crap. They plain out lie to the school administrators. If they didn't they would be in JAIL for withholding education from the kids.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Is this friend in NY? NY has some of the strictest homeschooling laws in the country so I am really surprised that she can get away with this unless she is just absolutely lying through her teeth and/or committing fraud in regards to the required annual assessment and other requirements.

You probably aren't going to find much to show her the downsides of unschooling. But if her husband is that fed up and is really thinking about leaving I would go with the angle of what PP said about her husband leaving and her very possibly loosing custody of the kids, and I would strongly suggest that she and her DH get into marital counseling. Let a professional help them work through any issues, and hopefully help HER see just how much she is screwing up her kids, and work on a compromise.

As a former homeschooler people like this just piss me off. They are the ones that give all the rest a bad name. Agree with others, I would report her.

 

[Happy Mom2]

This just fascinates me. It makes me sad, and angry for the kids. I have no issues with home schooling, but this is a whole other animal.

 

[mickeymedic]

I have a whole bunch of thoughts and opinions, but I will edit myself and keep this short. I was home schooled for 4-8th grades. I had very little parental involvement for grades 6-8th...mostly because I was incredibly self-motivated and the curriculum we were using was very easy to use. While I had the freedom to move through the curriculum as slowly or quickly as I pleased, I was expected to complete all course work.

The fact that your friend believes that there should be no expectations for children is very scary. By nature, children will do what is expected of them. I know children who are hellions at home because their parents refuse to discipline. However, in school they are completely different because their teachers expect them to behave. If your friend has zero expectations for her children, her children will live up to those expectations.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In my opinion that isn't unschooling. That is nothing, especially if she does nothing to foster any desire in them to learn.

Honestly--I am not troubled that at 7 and 9 they cannot read. I am not troubled ONLY because I don't feel it is too late and had a delayed reader myself. For her, we think there is a vision issue going on beyond the physical. Therapies are thousands and the eye doc suggested a mild reading glasses prescription and that worked well enough. She didn't actually "learn to read" until 2nd grade and almost 8 years old. But it wasn't for lack of trying. She really wanted to read, but had a lot of trouble.

I digress.

Most unschoolers I have known seem to foster a learning environment instead of point off the educational grid.

Does this mom at a minimum read to her kids?

Anyway, I don't think you will find bad stories except anectdotsl from someone who knew someone who....


From Jaycee Dugard and her children to the mom with children who got into Harvard, you are more than likely to find successes than failures.

But what that mom fails to realize--those moms didn't sit idly by and do absolutely nothing and call it unschooling.

It isn't too late though. That is the good side to what you are observing.

 

[Goofycampers]

It seems to me they are doing a injustice to their kids. With the job market what it is today and probably the future kids are going to have to be well educated to compete. So if you go along with that sort of thinking should I let my kids eat whatever they want too hoping that they'll desire healthy foods? Or stay up as late as they want? Parents have a responsibility to be the parent. And in MY OPINION that is not parenting.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

... So if you go along with that sort of thinking should I let my kids eat whatever they want too hoping that they'll desire healthy foods? Or stay up as late as they want? Parents have a responsibility to be the parent. And in MY OPINION that is not parenting.

Actually, many people believe that letting children make these types of decisions leads to better decision making throughout their lives. They make mistakes, have to pay for them, so learn from them. This is considered by many to be far more effective than having to abide by a long list of rules.

We use a mixture in our home. Some structure, but a whole lot of freedom to make mistakes.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Sounds to me that Mom wants playmates.

That aside I would call protective services.

Ultimately Dad is going to leave and the 3 of them can blow bubbles and twirl in the backyard for the rest of their lives....Very sad.