Anaheim Timeshares?

[bcla]

It only gets deposited if an owner trades out. And there are so few rooms at VGC, that it just doesn't happen very often. I have gotten WDW onsite.

Also its about where you own and your trading power. I know some timeshares have to trade 2 red weeks of theirs to get 1 week at WDW.

I read somewhere that it's only 50 units, completely sold out, and resales are about as much as they were selling for new. It's certainly not like the multitudes of timeshares where one can buy a resale for a tiny fraction of the original cost (or even free) just because someone is trying to unload the maintenance fees. This is something that people will use.

 

[pixiewings71]

I have seen the VGCH come up on RCI but only a couple of times and they were gone really fast, I barely clicked on them and they were gone. It's very difficult to trade into the VGCH.

 

[Brian Noble]

And of course our timeshare sales guy didn't tell us that about the Grand Californian.

It's not his job to tell you why you shouldn't buy a timeshare.

We have a 3BR at Dolphin's Cove for President's Week. I booked that through RCI, and confirmed it in January of 2012.

 

[hjgaus]

It was a couple of years ago. I lucked out and got 2 consecutive weeks in a 2 bedroom at BCV (originally had BCV and OKW, but the OKW week came up at BCV so I switched)...of course I also went in early September. WDW usually only shows up in the summer. Though last June they had a 2BR at AKL for the week of XMAS!!!

Must of just miss the boat on THAT find! Was it for Dec. 2012 or Dec. 2013 cuz I could use it for 2013? Although it might be too late because we used 2 weeks La Jolla trade for 2 bedroom in Orlando Sheraton Vistana! It was a total of 44 trading point units. We're doing a split stay in BCV! When it becomes "just the 2 of us" instead of the 4 of us there should be more flexibility in our schedule for better trades but for now you take what you can get!

 

[3Minnies1Mickey]

[/B]

Must of just miss the boat on THAT find! Was it for Dec. 2012 or Dec. 2013 cuz I could use it for 2013? Although it might be too late because we used 2 weeks La Jolla trade for 2 bedroom in Orlando Sheraton Vistana! It was a total of 44 trading point units. We're doing a split stay in BCV! When it becomes "just the 2 of us" instead of the 4 of us there should be more flexibility in our schedule for better trades but for now you take what you can get!

xmas 2012. DVC can't show up any sooner than 11 months out because of the DVC booking window. If we didn't have to fly 6 people across the country, I would've jumped on it. Also we weren't in the position to go last year. I still check availability regularly just in case I run across something amazing again.

 

[bcla]

It's not his job to tell you why you shouldn't buy a timeshare.

I'm guessing it also wasn't his job to inform us that we could buy practically the same timeshare as a resale for about one-eighth (or less) of their asking price.

 

[Mr Snappy]

Last year we bought a 2bdrm deluxe suite at Dolphin's cove. My parents had taken us ther with their wyndam points and we really liked it.

It's much cheaper than a premium hotel and we love that we have a condo with two full bedrooms, kitchen, living room, dining room, dishwasher, full size fridge, and all the other stuff.

It's a little dated, but they are doing upgrades all the time, but in phases.

We will use it almost every year, but the nice thing is that the years we don't want to use it, we can rent it out and more than cover our maintenance fees.

Ours was basically free because we found someone who just wanted out of the maintenance fees. Keep your eyes open, they do pop up like this every now and again

 

[pixiewings71]

I'm guessing it also wasn't his job to inform us that we could buy practically the same timeshare as a resale for about one-eighth (or less) of their asking price.

Why would they tell you that? And that isn't always the case. We bought a time share a couple years ago and we are selling it for TWICE what we paid. If you're thinking about a time share you need to research before you buy, just like a house or a car a time share is a long term investment. Also, keep in mind when you buy from the company (RCI, SVC, II etc) you tend to get more extras then you get if you buy from a reseller.

 

[bcla]

Why would they tell you that? And that isn't always the case. We bought a time share a couple years ago and we are selling it for TWICE what we paid. If you're thinking about a time share you need to research before you buy, just like a house or a car a time share is a long term investment. Also, keep in mind when you buy from the company (RCI, SVC, II etc) you tend to get more extras then you get if you buy from a reseller.

We were told a bit about the responsibilities, but not everything. I'm sure it would have been in the fine print.

We were told about maintenance and booking fees. In fact, relatively low maintenance fees was a selling point. We weren't told about special assessments. We weren't given a hint as to the difficulty in booking high demand areas with RCI points. We were informed about using discounted points but not about how difficult it would be.

Still - I look at DVC, and they seem to be far better than the majority of timeshare sellers. I know it can make sense to some people, but the high-pressure sales tactics and the fact that about 50% of new timeshare revenue goes to marketing (freebies in timeshare presentations) should be a sign. If you buy new, you're not likely to recoup more than 50% and in many cases far less. There's a huge market in timeshares that people are looking to dump. If I buy a new car, I could probably get 80% of the value immediately by reselling. Those who have gone into timeshares with lots of research often buy resales. I know they don't have as many of the freebies, but if I were going into this I would rather pay $2000 instead of $30,000 even if they threw in a few things.

And the one thing I've learned is that a timeshare isn't an "investment" per se. It's more like a prepaid vacation plan. Investments have reasonable sales costs. If I buy shares of stock, I'm paying maybe $12 commission to buy a bunch and $12 to sell a bunch. The commission is nowhere near what timeshare salesmen take.

 

[pixiewings71]

DVC does have a good system, but after 50 years (around 45 or less now) you lose it, you don't get to keep it. RCI, SVC, II, you keep it for life and can deed the property to your children (or anyone really) upon your death. I think that's why so many people go with the other companies. You're right about selling, we can't sell our SVC right now and even break even, we were really surprised about the RCI selling for twice what we bought it for but we apparently bought that one at the "right" time. Time shares can be "worth it" depending on what you're looking for but I know many people leave feeling less than happy with their purchase. DBF and I use our SVC constantly so for us it was a good buy, or will be over the course of a few years anyway. We ran the numbers and participated in a trial program as well so we didn't feel as pressured as some do.

 

[SnowWhite12]

We own BlueGreen points (which we love!), and we used them to book Peacock Suites for a week in March. Only a one bedroom, and we are used to a 2 in Orlando, but it will do to get me to DL

 

[bcla]

DVC does have a good system, but after 50 years (around 45 or less now) you lose it, you don't get to keep it. RCI, SVC, II, you keep it for life and can deed the property to your children (or anyone really) upon your death. I think that's why so many people go with the other companies. You're right about selling, we can't sell our SVC right now and even break even, we were really surprised about the RCI selling for twice what we bought it for but we apparently bought that one at the "right" time. Time shares can be "worth it" depending on what you're looking for but I know many people leave feeling less than happy with their purchase. DBF and I use our SVC constantly so for us it was a good buy, or will be over the course of a few years anyway. We ran the numbers and participated in a trial program as well so we didn't feel as pressured as some do.

Some see the expiration as a positive. While a timeshare can be passed on, some see it as a white elephant if they really don't want it.

I'm wondering what happens if a timeshare is listed in someone's will, but nobody accepts it. Is it forced? The biggest issue is that it is an obligation as a part owner. I know there's unclaimed real property all the time because those named in a will don't want to be responsible for upkeep and property taxes.

 

[Mr Snappy]

Some see the expiration as a positive. While a timeshare can be passed on, some see it as a white elephant if they really don't want it.

I'm wondering what happens if a timeshare is listed in someone's will, but nobody accepts it. Is it forced? The biggest issue is that it is an obligation as a part owner. I know there's unclaimed real property all the time because those named in a will don't want to be responsible for upkeep and property taxes.

I looked into DVC, but found lots of troubling clauses. Another huge negative is that Disney get to veto any sale of any DVC property. So this means that Disney will reject any DVC transfer or sale if they don't think the sale is at a high enough price. While on the surface, this sounds great to keep the value up, the reality is that the market determines price, not Disney. So, if you are in a situation where you need to sell and just want to get away from the pricey maint. fees, Disney will block the sale if it is not high enough. Not good when the market for these things are rock-bottom right now.

I am glad we did not pull the trigger on DVC. We still go and stay at Disney's Old Key West, but pay much less when they have discounts on lodging. I basically took advantage of the market and picked up our time share in Anaheim for free and just took over the maint. for someone who just wanted out. I own this for life and have the ability to rent it out, use it, or sell it for $1.00 if I want....can't do that wiht DVC unfortunately.

 

[bcla]

I looked into DVC, but found lots of troubling clauses. Another huge negative is that Disney get to veto any sale of any DVC property. So this means that Disney will reject any DVC transfer or sale if they don't think the sale is at a high enough price. While on the surface, this sounds great to keep the value up, the reality is that the market determines price, not Disney. So, if you are in a situation where you need to sell and just want to get away from the pricey maint. fees, Disney will block the sale if it is not high enough. Not good when the market for these things are rock-bottom right now.

I am glad we did not pull the trigger on DVC. We still go and stay at Disney's Old Key West, but pay much less when they have discounts on lodging. I basically took advantage of the market and picked up our time share in Anaheim for free and just took over the maint. for someone who just wanted out. I own this for life and have the ability to rent it out, use it, or sell it for $1.00 if I want....can't do that wiht DVC unfortunately.

I've never heard that they have the right to block a sale outright. Everything I've heard about DVC is that they have the "right of first refusal", which is that they have the right to block a sale if they feel it's too low, then purchase the contract back at that price. It certainly doesn't depress what the seller can get, but it may prevent buyers from getting a price that Disney considers too little.

http://online.wsj.com/community/gro...1098/topics/disney-vacation-clubs-right-first

Disney Vacation Development, Inc has the first right to purchase any Disney Vacation Club (DVC) real estate interest that is sold on the secondary market. Basically, what this means is that every resale contract must be submitted to Disney for review prior to closing. If DVC feels the purchase price is below market, they have the right to assume the position of the Buyer in the contract and purchase the ownership from the Seller at the contracted price.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm guessing it also wasn't his job to inform us that we could buy practically the same timeshare as a resale for about one-eighth (or less) of their asking price.

Nope. A sales agent generally can't outright lie, but they don't need to tell you everything, and they are certainly not going to go out of their way to give you a reason to not buy what they are selling. They have a fiduciary duty to their employer, not the customer.

Another huge negative is that Disney get to veto any sale of any DVC property. So this means that Disney will reject any DVC transfer or sale if they don't think the sale is at a high enough price.

bcla explained this for you, but this is not how it works. DVC has the right to assume the role of an otherwise willing buyer. The seller still gets paid whatever the two parties had agreed to, but Disney is the buyer.

 

[Mr Snappy]

ah, but there's a catch!

During the recent challenging economic period, Disney has become far less aggressive in assuming contracts. A possible result of this inactivity is the decline in resale prices over the past year.

The way I read this is that Disney has to WANT to buy your timeshare at the lower price. What if they don't as stated in your article? Do you have to just sit and wait for DVC to decide to buy it?

Too sketchy for my tastes. Don't like interference in commerce of my assets.

 

[3Minnies1Mickey]

ah, but there's a catch!



The way I read this is that Disney has to WANT to buy your timeshare at the lower price. What if they don't as stated in your article? Do you have to just sit and wait for DVC to decide to buy it?

Too sketchy for my tastes. Don't like interference in commerce of my assets.

I think (though I'm not a dvc owner) that means they have first right if refusal but they haven't been executing it as much as they used to. Not that they can block the sale PLUS not buy it.

 

[Brian Noble]

A possible result of this inactivity is the decline in resale prices over the past year.

IMO, the cause and effect is backwards here. If you look at the very comprehensive ROFR thread maintained on the DVC boards, you will see that prices started dropping steeply about the time the recession hit full force, and ROFR did not really slow down for almost another year.

The way I read this is that Disney has to WANT to buy your timeshare at the lower price. What if they don't as stated in your article? Do you have to just sit and wait for DVC to decide to buy it?

No---the ROFR process doesn't even start until you have a willing buyer under contract. Once the contract is executed, it is sent to Disney, which has a month to decide whether or not they will buy it under exactly the same terms. If they do, Disney pays the seller and gets the deed. If they don't, the contracted buyer pays the seller and gets the deed. But, there always has to be a willing buyer first, and once there is, the seller will be paid. The only question is who does the paying.

That's why ROFR turns out not to have a huge effect on the resale market---the market is still set by willing sellers and buyers coming to terms on a sale. A few of those have some insight as to what DVC is doing with ROFR, and try to price accordingly, but they are generally swamped by larger forces. For example, during the height of the recession, there were quite a few owners who had to sell no matter what price they got---they were trying to liquidate whatever they could. There just weren't enough buyers to keep up, and that's what led to the drop in prices. The volume *also* spiked, and my guess is that's what led to the curtailment of DVC exercising ROFR. They do not have infinite capital, nor an infinite number of buyers touring the DVC properties, *plus* they had their own shiny new resorts that also had to be sold.

They may start exercising more frequently in the future (it has picked up slightly already) but I don't know that I would count on it in my buy/don't buy decision.

 

[bcla]

ah, but there's a catch!



The way I read this is that Disney has to WANT to buy your timeshare at the lower price. What if they don't as stated in your article? Do you have to just sit and wait for DVC to decide to buy it?

Too sketchy for my tastes. Don't like interference in commerce of my assets.

It's been said a few times, but let me rephrase briefly. If Disney isn't willing to pony up the amount of the agreed contract, the sale between the private buyer and the seller proceeds. They have to determine whether or not it makes business sense to buy back from the seller and not simply block it for the sake of blocking the sale. The right of first refusal comes with a monetary cost, which is the amount of the proposed sale. If it's going to sell for almost as much as Disney could resell it, they're not likely to block it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_refusal

The closest thing I can think of is a sports team's right to match a contract offer with an existing player.

 

[Mr Snappy]

IMO, the cause and effect is backwards here. If you look at the very comprehensive ROFR thread maintained on the DVC boards, you will see that prices started dropping steeply about the time the recession hit full force, and ROFR did not really slow down for almost another year.


No---the ROFR process doesn't even start until you have a willing buyer under contract. Once the contract is executed, it is sent to Disney, which has a month to decide whether or not they will buy it under exactly the same terms. If they do, Disney pays the seller and gets the deed. If they don't, the contracted buyer pays the seller and gets the deed. But, there always has to be a willing buyer first, and once there is, the seller will be paid. The only question is who does the paying.

That's why ROFR turns out not to have a huge effect on the resale market---the market is still set by willing sellers and buyers coming to terms on a sale. A few of those have some insight as to what DVC is doing with ROFR, and try to price accordingly, but they are generally swamped by larger forces. For example, during the height of the recession, there were quite a few owners who had to sell no matter what price they got---they were trying to liquidate whatever they could. There just weren't enough buyers to keep up, and that's what led to the drop in prices. The volume *also* spiked, and my guess is that's what led to the curtailment of DVC exercising ROFR. They do not have infinite capital, nor an infinite number of buyers touring the DVC properties, *plus* they had their own shiny new resorts that also had to be sold.

They may start exercising more frequently in the future (it has picked up slightly already) but I don't know that I would count on it in my buy/don't buy decision.

Thanks for the clarity, that is different than I thought it worked. I do have a question about a case when you either want to sell it or give it away to someone of your choice, then what? For example, what if I want to sell the deed to my son for $1.00? or give it to him and have it transfered legally to his name? Disney can swoop in and buy it for $1.00 ? Do they have a way to transfer ownership at the owner's discretion?