An article you need to read !

[barbeml]

We get the government we deserve. Instead of demanding open, honest debates, we let the 2 parties "negotiate" until the debates are nothing more than presentations. We don't demand truth in advertising. We don't demand campaign finance and format reform.

We get what we deserve. And then when disaster strikes, we wonder where these incompetents came from. Simple..........they were voted in.

OTOH, maybe we're the incompetents when it comes to government.

I agree. Despite what many people say, most don't want to hear anything that resembles the truth. The "truth" might require hard work and sacrifice, and those are real downers during campaign season.

 

[wvrevy]

Here's another article that needs to be read as well. I think this one will prove to be a more correct account of the events as they occurred.

http://www.northsidejournal.com/special2.htm

Mike--Louisiana Resident

Hmmm...Newsweek or the "Northside Journal"...Yeah, I think I'll put my chips on Newsweek to win that one, pretty much every time.

 

[craig]

As a Democrat, I must say I thought the letters would slide off my screen due to the extreme slant. They raise a case about W. having to be told about the damage. Unless you are there the only way to find out any information is to be told by someone else. The president is not an omnipotent being. Also, who cares what he reads or what TV he watches? As long as he is getting current information that is fine with me.

The writer also said that people had trouble telling W. about the severity of the damage. It sounds like the writer is making that up. They also said that "the failure to anticipate that terrorists would fly into buildings on 9/11—was a failure of imagination." No one could predict that was going to happen. The gov't was getting thousands of terrorist threats. They were threatening blowing up Hoover dam and hundreds of other things. I cannot see blaming W's administration for 9/11. 'Bush needed to be able to imagine the scenes of disorder and misery that would, two days later, shock him when he watched the evening news." I never saw reports of people shooting, raping and looting during Hurricane Andrew. Who could have imagined it?

They use the name "Rummy" for Rumsfeld. Why use quotations? They don't use quotations when they tell the reader that Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco's nickname is "Queen Bee." The use of quotations conjects a negative tone to the name in this instance.

It's easy to forget how under-prepared the city was. "Long neglected in the city budget, communications within the New Orleans city government were poor, and eventually almost nonexistent when the batteries on the few old satellite phones died." The govenor should have known what to ask the gov't for.

The writer states that the gov't is not allowed to interfere with states until they request help yet criticizes them for not taking over.

I found the article heavily slanted and full of opinion rather than fact. It mad me furious to think that the majority of the blame could be put on W. Nothing like this has happened since Galveston. We have had plenty of hurricanes and we seem to know how to handle the aftermath. Never have we had a flood of this magnitude.

I don't think we Democrats would have done much better given the circumstances.

 

[wvrevy]

"We" Democrats ? Zell ? Is that you, Zell ?

So, you think it's a good idea, then, that the president only gets his information from people that work for him ? Never watches a news program or picks up a newspaper ? You think it's a good idea that he was so insulated from the ongoing crisis that he was hamming it up, playing guitar at John McCain's birthday party while people were dying in New Orleans ?

That article was dead on the money in its criticism of Bush, Blanco, AND the city government. "Democrat" or not, complaining about the "liberal media bias" just won't stand up to the facts.

 

[ThAnswr]

"We" Democrats ? Zell ? Is that you, Zell ?

So, you think it's a good idea, then, that the president only gets his information from people that work for him ? Never watches a news program or picks up a newspaper ? You think it's a good idea that he was so insulated from the ongoing crisis that he was hamming it up, playing guitar at John McCain's birthday party while people were dying in New Orleans ?

That article was dead on the money in its criticism of Bush, Blanco, AND the city government. "Democrat" or not, complaining about the "liberal media bias" just won't stand up to the facts.

JFK used to have every major newspaper delivered to him everyday. Obviously, he couldn't have read them all, but he did glance at the headlines. That gave him a sense of what's going on in the country.

That's what a real president does. He doesn't wait for the information to be brought to him. He keeps on top of it all on his own.

How people can be totally unconcerned that there's someone in the WH who doesn't appear to be informed or for that, even interested, in what's on in the world, amazes me. Have we really sunk this low that we now excuse, and justify, this kind of ignorance and lack of curiousity about the world.

How can anone find the stones to make excuses for someone in such a position of power such as Bush? How can anyone actually think Bush's appalling ignorance and obvious unconcern is not a problem?

But, you get what you pay for. Just remember, this could've been a terrorist attack. I wonder if people would've made the same ridiculous excuses that they are now.

 

[DisDuck]

Just to throw in my thoughts. Did anyone catch the glaring incorrect date reported for the declaration of emergency signed by the governor? Northside Journal which if you click on the 'about us' describes itself as a community paper focusing on events particularly HS just on that community.

So Northside reports that the governor did not declare/sign the state of emergency until after the flood yet the physical evidence shows that this was done on before Katrina even made landfall.

The Governor bears responsibility and should be held accountable as well as the Mayor for what they did and did not do but once the state of emergency was declared then FEMA (a federal agency) bears the brunt of responsibility and accountability all the way up the chain of command.

Besides this Newsweek article there are stories on today's MSNBC website detailing incidents where supplies, etc. were brought to the area by other organizations for specific responses, like the hospital where 45 people died and FEMA refused entry because of missing paperwork or confiscated for 'other' use. In particular, the owner of the hospital trucked in diesel fuel, food and other supplies for that hospital but was turned back by FEMA. The owner (a corporation) was then forced to bypass FEMA by obtaining alternate means of resupply which took several precious days. With this delay by FEMA, people died. Now is this the Mayor's or Governor's fault? I think not.

 

[What the Heck]

JFK used to have every major newspaper delivered to him everyday. Obviously, he couldn't have read them all, but he did glance at the headlines. That gave him a sense of what's going on in the country.

That's what a real president does. He doesn't wait for the information to be brought to him. He keeps on top of it all on his own.

How people can be totally unconcerned that there's someone in the WH who doesn't appear to be informed or for that, even interested, in what's on in the world, amazes me. Have we really sunk this low that we now excuse, and justify, this kind of ignorance and lack of curiousity about the world.

How can anone find the stones to make excuses for someone in such a position of power such as Bush? How can anyone actually think Bush's appalling ignorance and obvious unconcern is not a problem?

But, you get what you pay for. Just remember, this could've been a terrorist attack. I wonder if people would've made the same ridiculous excuses that they are now.

So it would have been ok if the President only got his news from the papers? That would have put him 48 hours behind.

And, it could have been a terrorist attack - but it wasn't. Because it wasn't, then different rules applied. The federal government cannot, nor should it, just take over a state or local government, not unless it is showing signs of being overwhelmed. And then, once it does see those signs, it takes time for it to act.

Someone suggested sending in the 82nd Airborne. This would have accomplished some things, and would have been a good idea. A better idea would have been for the governor to send in the National Guard 48 hours sooner than she did. How is this apologizing for the President?

DisDuck - your glaring error isn't an error. Her initial request, the famous one before the hurricane struck, was for money only. It opened the doors for money to fix what got broken after Katrina went through. It wasn't a request for troops or supplies. The one she signed on the 1st was the one that authorized that.

As for the original article, I did find it had a slant, but much less of a slant that was coming out originally by the press. This one actually infers that the Governor might have made some mistakes, although it still concentrates on the federal response. A request for "give me everything you got" is a little unspecific. Shouldn't there be a plan somewhere, shouldn't some members of her staff have said "we need x amount of food here, we need x gallons of water here, etc." Will there be a follow up of "How Blanco Blew It"? I doubt it. Perhaps that is our fault as well - we don't require accountability from our press when they are wrong. Just because it is a lighter shade does not mean it is not yellow journalism.

 

[ThAnswr]

So it would have been ok if the President only got his news from the papers? That would have put him 48 hours behind.

I'm not even going to dignify this "strawman" with an answer other than "you have got to be kidding".

And, it could have been a terrorist attack - but it wasn't.

And you better hope the next disaster isn't one either, because it'll be the same incompetent people doing the same incompetent job.

Yanno, something, you get the government you deserve. End of story.

 

[What the Heck]

I'm not even going to dignify this "strawman" with an answer other than "you have got to be kidding"..

You were the one that brought up JFK as well informed because he got all of the newspapers. Actually, every president gets the news articles on a briefing book (I think that is what they call it) where all of the top storys of the day is put in. Since it is done for every president, I'm sure it is done for this one as well.

And you better hope the next disaster isn't one either, because it'll be the same incompetent people doing the same incompetent job.

Yanno, something, you get the government you deserve. End of story.

Different rules would apply. An attack on the US means there is no question of state or federal being in charge - it automatically would be the federal. A natura disaster means there shouldn't be a question of who is in charge either, but this time there was, and the bandwagon seems to be screaming "but people died, it must have been the feds fault". Like you said earlier, you couldn't see Jeb just sitting around with his thumb up his ***. What I don't understand is why does that mean that Blanco is ok to do that? And yes, many have said "there is fault for everyone" but when it comes down to it, if you go step by step, it always comes back to "the feds should have made them evacuate, the feds should have put troops in right away, the feds should have gotten food to them right away". We get the government we deserve, but that is at all levels, not just the federal government.

 

[craig]

So, you think it's a good idea, then, that the president only gets his information from people that work for him ? Never watches a news program or picks up a newspaper ?

Where did I or the article say that he only gets his information from the people under him? I find it amazing that a person's hatred for an aonther can run so deep that they blame them for everything.

BTW, I do not appreciate being called a Nazi. That is what your "Zell" reference is implying. I have found many of your replies to posts to be condencending towards fellow DISers.

 

[ThAnswr]

You were the one that brought up JFK as well informed because he got all of the newspapers. Actually, every president gets the news articles on a briefing book (I think that is what they call it) where all of the top storys of the day is put in. Since it is done for every president, I'm sure it is done for this one as well.

Different rules would apply. An attack on the US means there is no question of state or federal being in charge - it automatically would be the federal. A natura disaster means there shouldn't be a question of who is in charge either, but this time there was, and the bandwagon seems to be screaming "but people died, it must have been the feds fault". Like you said earlier, you couldn't see Jeb just sitting around with his thumb up his ***. What I don't understand is why does that mean that Blanco is ok to do that? And yes, many have said "there is fault for everyone" but when it comes down to it, if you go step by step, it always comes back to "the feds should have made them evacuate, the feds should have put troops in right away, the feds should have gotten food to them right away". We get the government we deserve, but that is at all levels, not just the federal government.

I'm invoking the "Cliff Rule" and getting out of the way.

Warning: that first stop is a *****.

 

[What the Heck]

I'm invoking the "Cliff Rule" and getting out of the way.

Warning: that first stop is a *****.

But a lovely view!

 

[Patch'sD]

I have read the Newsweek article and also Time Magazines, I feel that the Newsweek article did a little more conjecture then time. Time presented the same story placing blame on all levels of governement. I being a Bush Supporter am disappointed in his reaction time. I believe that the major disconnect here was communication at all levels. No one knew who to call or what to ask for. This has to be fixed.

 

[wvrevy]

Where did I or the article say that he only gets his information from the people under him? I find it amazing that a person's hatred for an aonther can run so deep that they blame them for everything.

It's a well known fact that George Bush does not look at newspapers and only reads things presented to him by his staff. The article directly addresses this, speaking of the reluctance of staff members to want to be the bearer of bad news.

BTW, I do not appreciate being called a Nazi. That is what your "Zell" reference is implying. I have found many of your replies to posts to be condencending towards fellow DISers.

Huh ? The "Zell" comment was in reference to Zell Miller, the supposed "Democrat" that spoke at the Republican National Convention. I have no idea where you got that "nazi" nonsense from.

 

[craig]

every president gets the news articles on a briefing book (I think that is what they call it) where all of the top storys of the day is put in. Since it is done for every president, I'm sure it is done for this one as well.

He gets the news from various sources ie: newspapers, television, radio, etc.

I thought the Zell reference was referring to "The Marathon Man" I thought you didn't know that Lawrence Olivier's character's name was spelled Szell.

 

[LandscapePro_318]

Originally posted by DisDuck: So Northside reports that the governor did not declare/sign the state of emergency until after the flood yet the physical evidence shows that this was done on before Katrina even made landfall.

To date there IS no "physical" evidence. There are the "words" of the governor spoken on T.V. and there are the "postings" on her website. No one has been shown a copy of the "actual document" which is the issue. Also no one has seen a copy of the document with the date is was recieved by the Feds. There may indeed be a difference.

I tend to go with the "local" input because it fits the Louisiana political process to a tee. I've been watching how these clowns work for a long time now.

My point in posting the link was that there are other accounts of what happened when. As to "betting on MSNBC or Newsweek", I don't bet on any of the national media. Yes, this includes Fox as well.

I've been involved in the journalism industry and know firsthand that "slant" happens. The only thing to do these days is to read numerous accounts and see what adds up. Doesn't matter which "side of the isle" one is on on this one.

Mike--Louisiana Resident

 

[DisDuck]

On one of these other threads, perhaps one of the closed ones is a link to a PDF document. This document is dated Aug. 28th, addressed to the President detailing what laws/executive orders being invoked including sub-sections, etc. Then signed by the Governor.

Now granted who knows when it was received by the WH but unless you are a 'grand conspiracy' believer why would the governor write out the request then postpone sending it till later in the week?

I am not discussing who is slanting what just sticking to the facts as currently known. An independent commission would certainly be able to sort out all the issues.

 

[wvrevy]

I am not discussing who is slanting what just sticking to the facts as currently known. An independent commission would certainly be able to sort out all the issues.

Yep...It's a shame that the Republicans in Congress won't allow that to happen.

 

[auntpolly]

OK, want to read something that will make you laugh? (either laugh or cry, but sometimes you've just gotta laugh!)

Here's they are - all in one place for your entertainment.....

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/currentevents/a/katrinaquotes.htm

Comic relief or just plain depressing ? Your call!

 

[Free4Life11]

Thanks for the link auntpolly. Kind of makes you want to laugh and just shake your head.