An Amazing Alternative to Purchasing more DVC Points

[dioxide45]

Nah not at all. Math will be dead easy to see what MFs vs cash discounts are and that will set the price.

5 years left at BWV and I want 40% off instead the 25-30% that Disney does on cash.

The price though will be considerably less than what someone may have paid years earlier. I mean will someone pay $25K for a contract with five years left knowing that $5000/year will have to be counted in to make the math work each year? What about with one or two years left?

 

[Paul Stupin]

My point is that at some point every DVC contract will be worth $0. Whether it is you that takes the loss or someone else, someone will. DVC won't buy them back for what you paid when the deeds expire. So to someone, sometime, the money paid will be sunk. In the end, if used properly, one should still come out ahead when you count in the purchase price and maintenance fees compared to booking Disney deluxe resorts direct through Disney.

Yes, exactly. Every single person on these boards is aware that the contract they bought has an expiration date.

 

[Paul Stupin]

The price though will be considerably less than what someone may have paid years earlier. I mean will someone pay $25K for a contract with five years left knowing that $5000/year will have to be counted in to make the math work each year? What about with one or two years left?

The math actually does work for the 2042 resorts, but many buyers do believe that the resale value will go down as the date approaches. Your point really isn’t valid for the later expiration date resorts, that can be sold in 30 years very probably for a profit.

 

[starry_solo]

2 weeks worth of Marriott points are about $20,000-$30,000 buy-in on the resale market when you include transfer fees. That's why I don't own them because of their price. IDK where you're getting $3k from. That's weeks, not points. Marriott usually does take back weeks to turn them into Destination Club points because it's cheaper than ROFR on the points that were already converted from weeks.

You just explained why I own so much Wyndham. I know I can rent out Bonnet Creek for 2x my maintenance fees in the current market so I know that no matter what I can always rent to at least break even because WBC is the economical choice. I can rent out a 12 night stay in the fall when the Christmas decorations are up and the weather is tolerable for $770 for all 12 nights ($64.50 a night) and break even on my costs because I have good deeds.

I'd take that 12 night stay in the fall!

 

[sethschroeder]

The price though will be considerably less than what someone may have paid years earlier. I mean will someone pay $25K for a contract with five years left knowing that $5000/year will have to be counted in to make the math work each year? What about with one or two years left?

Prices of hotels will be substantially more at that point for hotel rooms. Will we be at $400-$500/point for new resorts at that point?

Unlike now with future unknown it will be a very well known and we may see a slight spike in rentals as well at the end.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I am curious what other DVC owners with kids do for Non-Disney vacations? Prior to kids, we were 100% onboard with hotels. My husband only wanted to eat out, so no kitchen required, and I liked the hotel amenities and rewards systems. Honestly we have never been big huge rental property fans.

But with kids hotels don’t seem to suite our needs as well. This December we are doing two adjoining rooms in the Bahamas, but don’t love the lack of kitchen. We’ll see how it goes though…

My 7 year old daughter said that our recent USVI vacation was the "best vacation" she's ever had. She's been to Orlando (DVC and non DVC) dozens of times. She loved all of the animals that were just running around the Wyndham Limetree resort (tropical birds, iguanas, wild chickens). She took dozens of pictures/videos of them. She also loved being able to see the colorful fish swimming in the ocean and being swarmed with "rainbow colored" minnows. She learned what coral reefs are and was amazed how they were animals and not plants.

At the Marriott Frenchmans Cove, she loved the slide and the kids club. She also loved all the activities and snacks that were free of charge. She was able to snorkel there too. We saw a bunch of crabs and big fish that we didn't see at the Wyndham. She loved the pad that they had in the ocean that you could jump off of and how nice the sand at the beach was for building. Our unit was a 1300sq foot 2 bedroom, so she got to enjoy having her own balcony and bathroom as well as her own room. I think that's why she liked it the most lol.

We only left the resorts to get groceries and drive around and site see the island since we had a kitchen in both units. The only negative that I have about the Limetree unit was that there was no washer/dryer in our studio loft, but that's just because I'm usually spoiled with one. Wyndham isn't like DVC, the studio units actually have a functional kitchen. (they usually lack a dishwasher and washer/dryer).

I track all of my expenses. I didn't eat out because USVI is insanely expensive. It makes Disney prices look reasonable. Here were my costs of my trip for 12 nights for 3 people:
Airfare (tickets + baggage fees): $1050
Lodging (including USVI occupancy tax + energy fees): $2,100
Car Rental (7 days): $600
Groceries: $475

Total: $4,225 or $117 per person per night.
I could never visit USVI for this cheap if I wasn't a Wyndham/Marriott owner. The Marriott room I stayed in is minimum $450/night if I were to rent it off another owner.

Lastly, I know she would enjoy Aulani more, so Disney (thanks to Joe Rody) has the ability to make resorts that are better than Marriott, but until they start building more Aulanis in places like USVI, Aruba, and Thailand, Marriott is going to be the best product for exotic vacations.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I guess some of what you’re saying is true. But you’re not bringing up that, at least historically, one can sell a DVC contract prior to expiration and probably either get your money back or see it appreciate in value…which means (aside from opportunity cost) that years and years of vacations can be covered by the maintenance fees exclusively. So, it’s an incorrect statement to say that money paid upfront is “just sunk.”

For me, the bigger plus to DVC, in addition to being on property (which of course is huge), is also the theming and design of the hotels themselves. I think they exist on an entirely different level than other timeshares, which might indeed have first rate facilities, but also a generic design you can find anywhere. For me, they don’t provide the immersive escape provided by DVC.

I think DVC is going to tank in the upcoming recession. It's the first asset most people would dump if they were facing a financial hardship because they need a house/car. I only bought into it because I was okay with being out the $8,000 that it costed me. I plan on just utilizing II deposits for the majority of my DVC stays. I really like SSR because it's quiet and has great pools. It's the studio units that bother me. The name "studio" is misleading because it's just a hotel room. Studios are supposed to still have usable kitchens.

 

[pianomanzano]

I am curious what other DVC owners with kids do for Non-Disney vacations?

What is this non-Disney vacation you speak of? lol

Seriously though, I’d like to know. We have one toddler and another on the way. For now we’re good with limiting ourselves to WDW until they’re 6-7, then we want to do international travel again. Being in the Disney bubble is convenient right now, but can see us renting out points when they’re older to help fund some vacations overseas, mostly in Asia for them to reconnect with their roots.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I think DVC is going to tank in the upcoming recession. It's the first asset most people would dump if they were facing a financial hardship because they need a house/car. I only bought into it because I was okay with being out the $8,000 that it costed me. I plan on just utilizing II deposits for the majority of my DVC stays. I really like SSR because it's quiet and has great pools. It's the studio units that bother me. The name "studio" is misleading because it's just a hotel room. Studios are supposed to still have usable kitchens.

I really don’t think the sky is falling down for DVC. And you’re right, DVC is a pricier product. I also think it’s a superior one. The bottom line is that, unlike other timeshares, DVC appreciates in value. In 10, 20 or 30 years I’ll sell my DVC contracts for more than I paid, so the maintenance fees will have covered all my vacations. Easy in, profitable exit. And, unlike other timeshares, the facilities themselves are far from generic, with amazingly themed resorts like Copper Creek, Grand Floridian, Aulani, etc.

There’s just no amount of number crunching justification that’s going to convince me otherwise.

 

[RoseGold]

Then why is it worth it being deeded into Disney? I'm generally curious because that was the biggest thing that held me back from buying DVC. Disney keeps making stupid decisions about their products that lowers its own value.

Then you don’t understand the differences in the systems. Yes, I agree Disney in general is making stupid choices. But at the end of the day, there’s an obvious comp, and it’s the cash Disney hotel rooms, maybe the one next door. That’s just math.

 

[DVCBeachBum]

I think DVC is going to tank in the upcoming recession. It's the first asset most people would dump if they were facing a financial hardship because they need a house/car. I only bought into it because I was okay with being out the $8,000 that it costed me. I plan on just utilizing II deposits for the majority of my DVC stays. I really like SSR because it's quiet and has great pools. It's the studio units that bother me. The name "studio" is misleading because it's just a hotel room. Studios are supposed to still have usable kitchens.

One look at the ROFR thread and you will see there is a very active camp of people just waiting for this to happen. Recessions are a great time to buy if you are in a position to. DVC won’t tank. But there will be people, if Disney doesn’t take them all back, that walk out of this with some great buys. Right now DVC is actively driving up the cost of some of these lower resale contracts.

 

[Sandisw]

Then why is it worth it being deeded into Disney? I'm generally curious because that was the biggest thing that held me back from buying DVC. Disney keeps making stupid decisions about their products that lowers its own value. If its value tanks then I'm out how much I paid for it, but since I barely paid anything for Wyndham and Marriott, I'm not really out much money if the value tanks. I have the most to lose if Disney tanks.

I didn’t buy DVC with resale value in mind. We didn’t even make it part of the equation because the purpose was to enjoy going to Disney, staying on property at specific locations and it costing less than it would to remain cash guests at CR.

So, for us, the investment we paid was worth it over getting a different timeshare that trades into Disney.

Now, if one will be happy with the choices that show up, then it might make a lot of sense. But, it would not be for us. I want to stay at RIV and VGF. Those won’t be what I would get owning something else.

And, I have sold and bought different resorts over the 13 years since becoming an owner and have benefited from the profit.

Plus, if I decide not to use, renting out rooms at my home resorts will be easier than renting out a trade..assuming that is allowed. So, I could end up getting my initial cost closer to a $3500 non DVC timeshare.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

What did these contracts look like in 2008-2011 when people were wanting out of them? I think that is my baseline. I have the information on DVC which makes me comfortable but what about Marriot?

2008 to 2011 prices were great for resale purchases. I saw an SSR go in the high 40s. BWV was in the 50s to 60s. AKV was in the 50s to 60s. Bcv still held its own in the 70s to 80s. VB was in the 40s.

 

[cbyrne1174]

Then you don’t understand the differences in the systems. Yes, I agree Disney in general is making stupid choices. But at the end of the day, there’s an obvious comp, and it’s the cash Disney hotel rooms, maybe the one next door. That’s just math.

Yea but other systems have the same discounts of owning vs renting. You have to specifically want access to on site WDW rooms for the math to make sense, which is becoming less and less worth it. I live next to WDW when I go, I keep hearing from others that the buses are sometimes even 45 mins apart. I never use them myself because car is usually faster.

Also as another example, I couldn't afford to ever go to Ko Olina if I didn't have Marriott resale. I can get a 1 bedroom there for around $1200 a week when the rack rate is 6 times that and the rent al rate is 3x. Whereas, the 1 bedrooms at Aulani are still so expensive, even for owners, that I'll probably only add a few nights in a studio when I can get a Ko Olina week. That's why I only have 50 points. It's meant to add on or be for 1 night at a time since no other systems let's me stay just 1 night.

 

[Sandisw]

Yea but other systems have the same discounts of owning vs renting. You have to specifically want access to on site WDW rooms for the math to make sense, which is becoming less and less worth it. I live next to WDW when I go, I keep hearing from others that the buses are sometimes even 45 mins apart. I never use them myself because car is usually faster.

Also as another example, I couldn't afford to ever go to Ko Olina if I didn't have Marriott resale. I can get a 1 bedroom there for around $1200 a week when the rack rate is 6 times that and the rent al rate is 3x. Whereas, the 1 bedrooms at Aulani are still so expensive, even for owners, that I'll probably only add a few nights in a studio when I can get a Ko Olina week. That's why I only have 50 points. It's meant to add on or be for 1 night at a time since no other systems let's me stay just 1 night.

I dont use a lot of buses at WDW, but the only place we have waited that long was DS at the end of the night when many people were heading back to the resort. Most often, 20 minutes tops.

But, your first sentence is key. Being just outside WDW, or at DVC resorts that are not tops, is why people feel owning DVC as a timeshare is worth it. As I shared, it is for us. If I ever bought a different timeshare, it would be only because I want it to be at a beach, and that is what it would be used for exclusively.

However, for those that want to be in a system that can do both, and don't want to invest in DVC...which can trade out as well...then it is a good alternative...but in no way, the same.

 

[cbyrne1174]

2008 to 2011 prices were great for resale purchases. I saw an SSR go in the high 40s. BWV was in the 50s to 60s. AKV was in the 50s to 60s. Bcv still held its own in the 70s to 80s. VB was in the 40s.

Rofr.net shows what the deeds have been sold for. I'm not sure how far back it goes. Since Marriott doesn't have a huge buy in cost, its more of an issue of if you can get out of it or not. If the upcoming recession is worse than 2008, you may not be able to find someone to buy during it's peak. But if it's just like 2008, you probably won't get what you paid for it, but you still should be able to get out of it.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I dont use a lot of buses at WDW, but the only place we have waited that long was DS at the end of the night when many people were heading back to the resort. Most often, 20 minutes tops.

But, your first sentence is key. Being just outside WDW, or at DVC resorts that are not tops, is why people feel owning DVC as a timeshare is worth it. As I shared, it is for us. If I ever bought a different timeshare, it would be only because I want it to be at a beach, and that is what it would be used for exclusively.

However, for those that want to be in a system that can do both, and don't want to invest in DVC...which can trade out as well...then it is a good alternative...but in no way, the same.

It's exactly this for me. People aren't considering their entire lifespan. I'm going mostly for my kid. Before I had a kid, I would make use of those discount 4 day tickets where it was like $100 for all 4 days, park at downtown Disney or boardwalk and take the transportation (this was 2010-2014). I wasn't a passholder. I preferred universal.

I can imagine empty nester middle age me would not care to go to WDW resorts because the theming doesnt compare to the real thing. I'd want to go to an actual lodge in Colorado (Wyndham Avon) over the the Wilderness Lodge.

 

[Sandisw]

It's exactly this for me. People aren't considering their entire lifespan. I'm going mostly for my kid. Before I had a kid, I would make use of those discount 4 day tickets where it was like $100 for all 4 days, park at downtown Disney or boardwalk and take the transportation (this was 2010-2014). I wasn't a passholder. I preferred universal.

I can imagine empty nester middle age me would not care to go to WDW resorts because the theming doesnt compare to the real thing. I'd want to go to an actual lodge in Colorado (Wyndham Avon) over the the Wilderness Lodge.

Too funny. I am in my late 50's and its my favorite spot to go. I have been going since I was young, took my kids, and do solo trips. Heck, I have been seven times in the last year, and have another six trips scheduled right now in the next year!!!

So, for me, it is crucial to be within the magic. I don't do parks for long periods either and have done several resort only stays. My friends all think I am boring that if I had to chose between a WDW vacation and something else? WDW wins....though, I do try to do one or two small trips with a friend elsewhere each year because her Disney days are over!!!

 

[cbyrne1174]

Too funny. I am in my late 50's and its my favorite spot to go. I have been going since I was young, took my kids, and do solo trips. Heck, I have been seven times in the last year, and have another six trips scheduled right now in the next year!!!

So, for me, it is crucial to be within the magic. I don't do parks for long periods either and have done several resort only stays. My friends all think I am boring that if I had to chose between a WDW vacation and something else? WDW wins....though, I do try to do one or two small trips with a friend elsewhere each year because her Disney days are over!!!

Just keep in mind it may also be that you like the comfort of having a condo and knowing exactly what is in it. That's what I like most about being and owner vs being a renter. I stick with the same 3 companies that are predictable about what's included with the room and I can plan accordingly. For example, I'm taking a trip next year to the Wyndham Smoky Mountain Lodge (the one with 3 waterparks) now that my kid will finally be 48 inches and able to ride all of the slides. I have never been before, but I know exactly what is in the room because it's going to be identical to WBC but with different decor. I don't have to worry about dining because I know exactly what's in my kitchen and that I will feel like I'm at home when I'm 700 miles away.

 

[Sandisw]

Just keep in mind it may also be that you like the comfort of having a condo and knowing exactly what is in it. That's what I like most about being and owner vs being a renter. I stick with the same 3 companies that are predictable about what's included with the room and I can plan accordingly. For example, I'm taking a trip next year to the Wyndham Smoky Mountain Lodge (the one with 3 waterparks) now that my kid will finally be 48 inches and able to ride all of the slides. I have never been before, but I know exactly what is in the room because it's going to be identical to WBC but with different decor. I don't have to worry about dining because I know exactly what's in my kitchen and that I will feel like I'm at home when I'm 700 miles away.

Its not that, Its that I really that I love WDW and being in the WDW bubble and I like the way the DVC allows me to stay where I want within that bubble.

Even when I was a cash guest, I tried a few different moderate resorts and realized I missed the CR and changed mid trip.

I could never go and not be on-site. I can’t even bring myself to stay at SSR, which I own because it’s not the same,

For any of the other trips I might want to go on, timeshares don’t make sense. Like I said, I am content with my happy place! Lol