Amanda Knox found guilty.

[Art 1]

I seriously doubt the US will extradite her.

I hope she is sent back, she was found guilty. The bits that I have read seem to indicate she is guilty. US news sources havn't been the most reliable way to read about this case. Especially CNN.

 

[Art 1]

Both Knox and Sollecito should head for a country with no extradition treaty to Italy.

Probably would be better off in an Italian prison than living in one of those countries.

 

[lizzi6692]

LOL talk about pot calling kettle black.

The US legal system has absolutely no grounds what so ever to criticize any one elses legal system, thank you very much. The corruption, miscarriages and out and out travesties that occur in our system from the cops right up to the supreme court could fill a book.

Not every other country has to go by "US" rules. One of the reasons every one else feels this country is Arrogant and bullies.

Now I haven't been following this case enough to really care about this girl. I do know that in Europe she is not the little "saint" the media here potrays her to be.

I never once said the US system is perfect. It definitely has it's flaws. The way we treat double jeopardy isn't one of them.

I have followed the case and basically read everything that I can on it because it both fascinates and infuriates me. I also happen to know a thing or two about the media and what sources to trust. Based on what I know about this case one of two things must be true. Either she is innocent or she is one of the biggest sociopaths this world has even seen because she not only doesn't show any remorse for what she is alleged to have done but manages to fake sympathy and other emotions very well.

Based on the evidence, specifically the lack of anything linking her to the crime, my money is on the former. That and the fact that the prosecutor's explanation of events has changed so many times tells me he is more concerned with winning the case rather than actually making sure justice is served.

 

[Borishack]

There are differing opinions.

There always are.

From what I understand, Fan practiced law for 4 years and then went into academia. One comment I read about her is that she tends to be an idealist and not a pragmatist.

And I have read reviews of her presentations that sing her competencies. Nobody is going to win the silly "my expert is better then yours" thing.

The fairness of the proceedings in Italy would be brought up in a hearing.

Yes, whatever legal council Knox can bring to bear would try. What you critically omit is that wouldn't include the weight and power of the Justice Department. They would be representing the interests of Italy.

It's not as if the DOJ simply presents its case and the judge works with that.

Correct. The DOJ reminds the Judge of the criteria elements of our extradition treaty with Italy and presents an argument as to why the request Italy has made meets all of them.

Knox lawyers then try to re-argue the Italian case. After three minutes the Judge stops them, reminding them the treaty doesn't demand that the laws of both nations be equivalent (which many people here also just don't get, but that's another discussion).

And by the way, if the last Knox appeal in Italy fails, by the time we get into the above scenario she will already be a fugitive from justice. I can guarantee that a week or so before the Italian Supreme Court ruling she will flee the country. We already got a preview of that behavior from her ex boyfriend yesterday.

 

[eliza61]

I never once said the US system is perfect. It definitely has it's flaws. The laws regarding double jeopardy aren't one of them.

I have followed the case and basically read everything that I can on it because it both fascinates and infuriates me. I also happen to know a thing or two about the media and what sources to trust. Based on what I know about this case one of two things must be true. Either she is innocent or she is one of the biggest sociopaths this world has even seen because she not only doesn't show any remorse for what she is alleged to have done but manages to fake sympathy and other emotions very well.

Based on the evidence, specifically the lack of anything linking her to the crime, my money is on the former. That and the fact that the prosecutor's explanation of events has changed so many times tells me he is more concerned with winning the case rather than actually making sure justice is served.

but you did say or agreed that the Italian system is a joke. based on what? this case. If that's the measuring stick you are using the natural inference could be the the US system is also a joke.
Which is perfectly good with me, considering the US legal system is probably one of the most corrupted, biased and imperfect systems going.

I stand by my statement. absolutely no one in this country has the grounds to start criticizing another countries systems.

the old saying definitely is true, "people or in this case countries that live in glass houses should not go around throwing stones".

Now as I said, this isn't a case that I've been following except for my relatives in Portugal do believe she is a sociapath.

 

[lizzi6692]

but you did say or agreed that the Italian system is a joke. based on what? this case. If that's the measuring stick you are using the natural inference could be the the US system is also a joke.

Yes this case is the reason I have come to the conclusion that the Italian system is a joke, but that's only because this is the case that brought their system to my attention. Prior to this I had no reason to know anything about their legal system, now I do and I have found many things that I don't agree with it. My opinion of their system is completely separate and independent from my opinion of the US system. I also don't really see how our legal system is relevant here other than in regards to whether or not Amanda Knox will be extradited if her final appeal fails. I was making a statement about their system, you are the one that brought up the US.

 

[JanaDee]

but you did say or agreed that the Italian system is a joke. based on what? this case. If that's the measuring stick you are using the natural inference could be the the US system is also a joke.
Which is perfectly good with me, considering the US legal system is probably one of the most corrupted, biased and imperfect systems going.

I stand by my statement. absolutely no one in this country has the grounds to start criticizing another countries systems.

the old saying definitely is true, "people or in this case countries that live in glass houses should not go around throwing stones".

Now as I said, this isn't a case that I've been following except for my relatives in Portugal do believe she is a sociapath.

No, the US justice system is not perfect, but it is a heck of a lot better than a country that imprisons scientists on manslaughter charges for failing to predict an earthquake.

You pull a stunt like that (or trying people multiple times until you get the verdict you want), you deserve the derision.

 

[sunshinehighway]

but you did say or agreed that the Italian system is a joke. based on what? this case. If that's the measuring stick you are using the natural inference could be the the US system is also a joke.
Which is perfectly good with me, considering the US legal system is probably one of the most corrupted, biased and imperfect systems going.

I stand by my statement. absolutely no one in this country has the grounds to start criticizing another countries systems.

the old saying definitely is true, "people or in this case countries that live in glass houses should not go around throwing stones".

Now as I said, this isn't a case that I've been following except for my relatives in Portugal do believe she is a sociapath.

I think she is a sociopath too.

It seems the media in the US has created an image of her as the innocent, immature girl (almost as if she has some type of disability or social disorder). I don't buy it for one minute.

 

[Borishack]

Any extradition request will have to be routed through the Departments of State and Justice

Let's talk about what wasn't mentioned.

State decides whether to move the request forward, primarily based on the impact of yes or no on our relationship with the requesting country and our reputation in general re: complying with extradition requests. We don't want to be seen as a country that regularly says no for political reasons, because that begins to kill other countries willingness in complying with our extradition requests.

If State say yes, DOJ immediately becomes the council representing Italy. The only legal review they do is how to best convince a Judge that the requested individual should be detained.

The only support Knox gets is whatever legal council she can bring to bear. And they cannot try to re-argue the Italian case or double jeopardy, since the Treaty specifically states differences in law are not a reason to turn down a request.

Extradition requests aren't automatically complied with, even among friendly nations.

Correct and no one said they are.

But most are complied with and no one on "Team Knox" has presented any substantive arguments as to why this potential one would be any different. They just keep restating the same erroneous stuff (double jeopardy -- wrong -- CSI-syndrome "evidence issues this and that" -- meaningless, extradition assessment does not involve re-trying a case, yada yada yada).

 

[EMom]

I hope she is sent back, she was found guilty. The bits that I have read seem to indicate she is guilty. US news sources havn't been the most reliable way to read about this case. Especially CNN.

Are you serious? I do not make the argument that she was an angel or innocent lamb. She wasn't wise in her judgment calls, before or after the killing. I simply say it is impossible for the DNA of Knox and Sollecito to be absent from the crime scene, while that of Guede and the victim/Kercher is abundant. And mixed.

It is not as if Kercher had blue DNA, Guede had green DNA, Knox had pink DNA and Sollecito had yellow DNA. Knox and Sollecito didn't go into cleaning mode and carefully remove all traces of pink and yellow DNA, while leaving all the blue and green DNA. They could be criminal masterminds and they couldn't pull that off.

I don't have to know that she was kept awake for days, slapped around, not given access to an attorney and questioned/made to sign statements in a language she wasn't fluent in to know that she and Sollecito did not commit this crime. Kercher's and Guede's DNA was found ALL OVER the crime scene, both separately and mixed. Knox's and Sollecito's were not. Did they commit the crime while wearing hazmat suits?

Guede murdered Kercher and ironically, was sentenced to the least amount of time of all of them, so long as he would testify against Knox and Sollecito. Truly, getting the conviction against those two was ALL that mattered to the prosecutor. Justice for the victim played no part in his antics.

To those who say Kercher has been forgotten in all this, I would say the prosecutor was the FIRST one to forget her.

 

[lizzi6692]

but you did say or agreed that the Italian system is a joke. based on what? this case. If that's the measuring stick you are using the natural inference could be the the US system is also a joke.
Which is perfectly good with me, considering the US legal system is probably one of the most corrupted, biased and imperfect systems going.

I stand by my statement. absolutely no one in this country has the grounds to start criticizing another countries systems.

the old saying definitely is true, "people or in this case countries that live in glass houses should not go around throwing stones".

Now as I said, this isn't a case that I've been following except for my relatives in Portugal do believe she is a sociapath.

Actually living in this country means I can say whatever I please just like you can, it's actually one of my favorite parts of our system. I didn't create our legal system nor did I say it was perfect. Our legal system also has no bearing on whether I can have an opinion on the legal system of another country. So unless you'd actually like to debate the problems of the Italian legal system with me please move on. And if you have a problem with people stating their opinions freely than maybe you should go somewhere that right is more strictly controlled. Italy perhaps?

 

[eliza61]

Actually living in this country means I can say whatever I please just like you can, it's actually one of my favorite parts of our system. I didn't create our legal system nor did I say it was perfect. Our legal system also has no bearing on whether I can have an opinion on the legal system of another country. So unless you'd actually like to debate the problems of the Italian legal system with me please move on. And if you have a problem with people stating their opinions freely than maybe you should go somewhere that right is more strictly controlled. Italy perhaps?

I don't have a problem at all. That's why I engage. You can say what you want, I get to challenge it.

Lol, sort of the same premise.

 

[RitaE]

"No one remembers Meredith, while the two defendants write books, speak to the media and earn money."

That statement broke my heart because it's true.

I don't like Amanda Knox and I get the creeps when I look at her. I think she's a terrible person. Did she murder Meredith? I don't think she killed her, no, but I do think she knew what happened before the authorities did.

I really can't speak to the way people feel when they look at Amanda Knox. On a theoretical level I'm actually a firm believer in "gut check" feelings. For instance, I felt in my very soul that Casey Anthony had killed her daughter from the first time I saw her on camera. I never read anything about the case that ever made me change my mind either. But even with that firm belief, I have to maintain that Double Jeopardy in our legal system is a standard that needs to be maintained.

I will say that I've never experienced the gut check feelings about Amanda Knox that other people report. When I see her I see a young girl, socially odd, who is and was scared witless.

As for the book writing. What other options have Knox and Sollecito had? Their defense fees now (and still going) have totaled in the millions of dollars. Much of this has gone unpaid and donated, but they and their families have still had to shoulder a significant financial burden. What else COULD they do other than sell their stories?

 

[lizzi6692]

I don't have a problem at all. That's why I engage. You can say what you want, I get to challenge it.

Lol, sort of the same premise.

Except you didn't engage me, you tried to tell me that because of the country I come from I'm not allowed to have an opinion on another country, which is utterly ridiculous. If you want to debate the content of my opinion that's fine, but suggesting that I don't have the right to have one is not.

 

[JanaDee]

I really can't speak to the way people feel when they look at Amanda Knox. On a theoretical level I'm actually a firm believer in "gut check" feelings. For instance, I felt in my very soul that Casey Anthony had killed her daughter from the first time I saw her on camera. I never read anything about the case that ever made me change my mind either. But even with that firm belief, I have to maintain that Double Jeopardy in our legal system is a standard that needs to be maintained.

I will say that I've never experienced the gut check feelings about Amanda Knox that other people report. When I see her I see a young girl, socially odd, who is and was scared witless.

As for the book writing. What other options have Knox and Sollecito had? Their defense fees now (and still going) have totaled in the millions of dollars. Much of this has gone unpaid and donated, but they and their families have still had to shoulder a significant financial burden. What else COULD they do other than sell their stories?

I agree with everything you said.

 

[EMom]

I think she is a sociopath too.

It seems the media in the US has created an image of her as the innocent, immature girl (almost as if she has some type of disability or social disorder). I don't buy it for one minute.

She may well be a sociopath, but if so, she is a sociopath whose DNA is nowhere to be found at a crime scene overflowing with DNA of the victim and that of Guede.

By the way, after the crime, Guede was the only one of the three to attempt to flee Italy.

 

[RadioNate]

Are you serious? I do not make the argument that she was an angel or innocent lamb. She wasn't wise in her judgment calls, before or after the killing. I simply say it is impossible for the DNA of Knox and Sollecito to be absent from the crime scene, while that of Guede and the victim/Kercher is abundant. And mixed.

It is not as if Kercher had blue DNA, Guede had green DNA, Knox had pink DNA and Sollecito had yellow DNA. Knox and Sollecito didn't go into cleaning mode and carefully remove all traces of pink and yellow DNA, while leaving all the blue and green DNA. They could be criminal masterminds and they couldn't pull that off.

I don't have to know that she was kept awake for days, slapped around, not given access to an attorney and questioned/made to sign statements in a language she wasn't fluent in to know that she and Sollecito did not commit this crime. Kercher's and Guede's DNA was found ALL OVER the crime scene, both separately and mixed. Knox's and Sollecito's were not. Did they commit the crime while wearing hazmat suits?

Guede murdered Kercher and ironically, was sentenced to the least amount of time of all of them, so long as he would testify against Knox and Sollecito. Truly, getting the conviction against those two was ALL that mattered to the prosecutor. Justice for the victim played no part in his antics.

To those who say Kercher has been forgotten in all this, I would say the prosecutor was the FIRST one to forget her.

Absolutely. I think Amanda Knox was arrogant and seriously naive about the Italian justice system. I don't find her likable. But we didn't 'know' her before the murder. Her and Merdith Kercher weren't friends…they lived together, briefly. Sollecito was barely a 'boyfriend.' She was young and not very bright. She's also not an angel. She spend 4 years in prison was coerced during initial questioning. I'd be angry and unsympathetic too!

The HAVE the killer. It's not Sollecito and Knox.

 

[aprincessatlast]

Probably would be better off in an Italian prison than living in one of those countries.

Have you been to Italy? Sure it has charm. Having lived in the Dominican Republic which is one of the places the guy was planning to "escape" to. I will say outside of the major cities of Rome etc. they both felt the same. I don't want to say third world, but for lack of a better word that is the way I would describe it. One is just more artsy and "hip" and the water and electric is a bit better but rustic and rundown the same. Especially the further south you would go.

I am very curious to see if she is sent back is she loses the appeal. From what I read it seems she would be. How much longer will the appeals take?

 

[RainbowBrite]

I have to wonder if those who say Amanda Knox is guilty even know the facts of the case. There is NO evidence linking her to the murder. They HAVE the guy who murdered Meredith Kercher and his name is Rudy Guede.

 

[bcla]

Correct. The DOJ reminds the Judge of the criteria elements of our extradition treaty with Italy and presents an argument as to why the request Italy has made meets all of them.

Knox lawyers then try to re-argue the Italian case. After three minutes the Judge stops them, reminding them the treaty doesn't demand that the laws of both nations be equivalent (which many people here also just don't get, but that's another discussion).

But there's precedence for a judge simply deciding to do what the hell he wants, the law be damned - Judge Baugh in Montana being a prime example. That is one of the oddities of the US legal system.

There's certainly enough precedent. The Constitutional Court of Italy basically ignored the US-Italy extradition treaty and made up their own reason for turning down the extradition request for Pietro Venezia. Here's how one of his advocates decribed the decision:

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/28/w...radition-citing-death-penalty-in-florida.html

But Giovanni Leone, a former President of Italy who had taken up Mr. Venezia's cause, described the decision as "one of historic character that does honor to Italy."

And the thing that was argued was that he could be tried in an Italian court as an Italian national. So there's one of those funky issues where a country simply asserts jurisdiction that otherwise seems ludicrous. This wasn't a member of their military or a diplomat serving overseas. In the end he was convicted in Italy. However, I'm pretty sure they wanted this guy in Florida.