Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[Muushka]

I haven't read the entire thread, but just wondering

I have yet to see one sign amongst the signs at OWS that bemoans the fact that the government is handing out billions of OUR TAX DOLLARS and BORROWED MONEY THAT WE DO NOT HAVE to the 'green energy' special interests. Money that has been wasted. Loans that will never be repaid. Loans that were restructured (illegally, from what I understand) so that the investors would be paid long before the tax payer would be repaid once these defunct companies have sold off to pay off the debts. Investors like Al Gore, who benefit greatly from this 'green movement'. His personal wealth has soared since this global warming began. Where is the outrage?

Where is the outrage over millions of tax dollars given to sports arenas that sports teams could certainly afford if the didn't pay their players millions of dollars?

Where is the outrage over companies given waivers to not participate in the healthcare reform? Doesn't the OWS gang see anything wrong with one company being granted a waiver and not another?

Why did they choose to picket in front of certain wealthy person's homes and not others? It seems like the protests are somewhat choosie about which rich person they hate.

I won't get into the political aspects of any of the above, but there are plenty. Both sides do it. It is not right.

 

[58cognac]

Very true.

I think with any movement that involves change when they initially come onto the scene you get your wackadoodles that pop out of the wood works. I definitely didn't get the tea party until the rehetoric died down, especially when they first came out and the other fringes were not booted out.

No kidding... I hope the people with the anti-Semitic posters are being escorted from the OWS camps.

I haven't read the entire thread, but just wondering

I have yet to see one sign amongst the signs at OWS that bemoans the fact that the government is handing out billions of OUR TAX DOLLARS and BORROWED MONEY THAT WE DO NOT HAVE to the 'green energy' special interests. Money that has been wasted. Loans that will never be repaid. Loans that were restructured (illegally, from what I understand) so that the investors would be paid long before the tax payer would be repaid once these defunct companies have sold off to pay off the debts. Investors like Al Gore, who benefit greatly from this 'green movement'. His personal wealth has soared since this global warming began. Where is the outrage?
.

don't even get me started on that guy and the Green investments
i think my frontal lobe might burst

 

[maddhatir]

The poor just want to take and give nothing, so they are not vested (but they should be as that gravy train can dry up).

You should be ashamed yourself. As disgusted as I am by people who make these comments, I always thank them. Thank them for making me a more compassionate person.

I will leave you with something I love to say- "Karma is a %$#@ baby!"

 

[Acklander]

I won't get into the political aspects of any of the above, but there are plenty. Both sides do it. It is not right.

Yes, they are well aware that both sides are dirty, and complain loudly about it. It is anti greed and anti buying of our politicians - all of them. That is why this isn't considered a left or right thing, but more of an American thing and they refuse to be pigeon holed into one party.

Because many Americans, from both sides believe that our tax money's should be spent here, in this country, for the benefit of Americans. and because many Americans, from both sides, believe that millionaires should pay a little bit more in taxes for the good of our country, and many Americans, from both sides, believe that corporations shouldn't be allowed to give millions to politicians. And many people, from both sides, don't think it's right that corporations are allowed huge tax credits while shipping jobs overseas, and many people, from both sides don't think that banks should be bailed out with tax payers money while receiving million dollar bonuses.
These are all things that many,many people (not all, but definitely the majority) agree on - and these people come from both sides of the aisle. These are the things that we, As American citizens should be DEMANDING from our politicians. If we work on the things we agree on, that will help bring the country back together. Once were working together again, then we can work on the little things.
As a citizen, I want my leaders to know why we're angry. Some show their anger by writing letters, some by protesting, some by occupying, some by voting, some by boycotting, some by showing up at town hall type meetings. Some use multiple of ways to express their needs As a citizen. Short of violence, there is no wrong way of letting your politicians know what you want and when they're screwing up. one thing many people, from both sides, can agree on is our country, As we know it, is in very big trouble now. It's important that everyone get involved in saving America.
I hear so many people claim that they agree with many (or some, or a few) of the complaints of OWS but do t agree with their delivery. Instead of picking on them for their delivery, you should be joining them in delivering the message, how ever you feel comfortable, to our leaders. Don't let the delivery of the message be another way those in power use to divide us A's a country. It's time we join together and let ALL our leaders, from BOTH sides of the aisle to cut the crap and get to work doing what We, the people, elected them to do, not doing what the corporations paid them to do.

 

[Muushka]

Yes, they are well aware that both sides are dirty, and complain loudly about it. It is anti greed and anti buying of our politicians - all of them. That is why this isn't considered a left or right thing, but more of an American thing and they refuse to be pigeon holed into one party.

Because many Americans, from both sides believe that our tax money's should be spent here, in this country, for the benefit of Americans. and because many Americans, from both sides, believe that millionaires should pay a little bit more in taxes for the good of our country, and many Americans, from both sides, believe that corporations shouldn't be allowed to give millions to politicians. And many people, from both sides, don't think it's right that corporations are allowed huge tax credits while shipping jobs overseas, and many people, from both sides don't think that banks should be bailed out with tax payers money while receiving million dollar bonuses.
These are all things that many,many people (not all, but definitely the majority) agree on - and these people come from both sides of the aisle. These are the things that we, As American citizens should be DEMANDING from our politicians. If we work on the things we agree on, that will help bring the country back together. Once were working together again, then we can work on the little things.
As a citizen, I want my leaders to know why we're angry. Some show their anger by writing letters, some by protesting, some by occupying, some by voting, some by boycotting, some by showing up at town hall type meetings. Some use multiple of ways to express their needs As a citizen. Short of violence, there is no wrong way of letting your politicians know what you want and when they're screwing up. one thing many people, from both sides, can agree on is our country, As we know it, is in very big trouble now. It's important that everyone get involved in saving America.
I hear so many people claim that they agree with many (or some, or a few) of the complaints of OWS but do t agree with their delivery. Instead of picking on them for their delivery, you should be joining them in delivering the message, how ever you feel comfortable, to our leaders. Don't let the delivery of the message be another way those in power use to divide us A's a country. It's time we join together and let ALL our leaders, from BOTH sides of the aisle to cut the crap and get to work doing what We, the people, elected them to do, not doing what the corporations paid them to do.

Because many Americans, from both sides believe that our tax money's should be spent here, in this country, for the benefit of Americans

Did you know that our precious tax dollars have gone to support such things as 'green cars' in Finland? Solar companies in Mexico?

Does it bother you at all that while certain companies are lifted up with public funds, it prevents other companies from getting ahead?

Instead of picking on them for their delivery

I didn't say anything about the delivery of the message.

I said that I didn't care for the selective way that they out certain things when in reality there is a lot to complain about. Their message is political in nature, and the fact that they don't target certain things proves it.

 

[superme80]

You should be ashamed yourself. As disgusted as I am by people who make these comments, I always thank them. Thank them for making me a more compassionate person.

I will leave you with something I love to say- "Karma is a %$#@ baby!"

So you have never met a person who just sponged off the governemnt? I have met plenty and they disgust me. Government support is supposed to be temporary not a lifestyle. I understand needing a helping hand. I have met, worked with, and have been related to people who just wait for the check to come in. They find no way off the system. The ones who worked did just enough to keep the check coming in or so they could get fired. I am a compassionate person until you use me. I will not be used. And everday lots of people just use the system with no intention of making themselves a productive memeber of society.

 

[eliza61]

I haven't read the entire thread, but just wondering

I have yet to see one sign amongst the signs at OWS that bemoans the fact that the government is handing out billions of OUR TAX DOLLARS and BORROWED MONEY THAT WE DO NOT HAVE to the 'green energy' special interests. Money that has been wasted. Loans that will never be repaid. Loans that were restructured (illegally, from what I understand) so that the investors would be paid long before the tax payer would be repaid once these defunct companies have sold off to pay off the debts. Investors like Al Gore, who benefit greatly from this 'green movement'. His personal wealth has soared since this global warming began. Where is the outrage?

Where is the outrage over millions of tax dollars given to sports arenas that sports teams could certainly afford if the didn't pay their players millions of dollars?

Where is the outrage over companies given waivers to not participate in the healthcare reform? Doesn't the OWS gang see anything wrong with one company being granted a waiver and not another?

Why did they choose to picket in front of certain wealthy person's homes and not others? It seems like the protests are somewhat choosie about which rich person they hate.

I won't get into the political aspects of any of the above, but there are plenty. Both sides do it. It is not right.

While they haven't gotten very specific, I think that is the generally message of OWS.

They don't want companies and government in bed together at all. Yes they do see much wrong with companies getting tax credits and waivers. I haven't heard them say one was better than the other.
I think wall street is just a "symbolic" representation of coporate greed.
As to why or how they choose to pick some one's home I can't say.

Here in Philly the protestors are adament that business should have no influence over government and government should not be floating businesses.

 

[eliza61]

So you have never met a person who just sponged off the governemnt? I have met plenty and they disgust me. Government support is supposed to be temporary not a lifestyle. I understand needing a helping hand. I have met, worked with, and have been related to people who just wait for the check to come in. They find no way off the system. The ones who worked did just enough to keep the check coming in or so they could get fired. I am a compassionate person until you use me. I will not be used. And everday lots of people just use the system with no intention of making themselves a productive memeber of society.

You do realize that the average person on government assistance (food stamps or welfare, not including medicaid) is only on there for 24-34 months right? A study by the urban institute found that generally 70% of recepients left after 24 months and almost all left when they were able to find employment. So contrary to the make believe world of the dis, most would and do leave public assistance once they find employment.

The welfare system is an extremely dynamic system. In an "average" year, about one-half of the AFDC caseload leaves the welfare rolls. The best available estimates indicate that between one-half and two-thirds of those who leave do so because they have found paid employment. A small percentage (less than 15 percent) leave for marriage and the remainder leave for a variety of other reasons. Those who leave are replaced by new applicants who have never received assistance before and by families who have received assistance previously and are returning to receive assistance again.

The majority of families who leave the welfare system do so after a relatively short period of time -- about half leave within a year; 70 percent within two years and almost 90 percent within five years. But many return almost as quickly as they left -- about 45 percent return within a year and 70 percent return by the end of five years.

When one takes into account all of this movement on and off the welfare rolls, only a moderate fraction of recipients who ever turn to the welfare system for support end up spending relatively long periods of time on the welfare rolls.

So evidently those who go on and off do have some drive to better their situations.

 

[superme80]

You do realize that the average person on government assistance (food stamps or welfare, not including medicaid) is only on there for 24-34 months right?

Do you know the actual % of welfare fraud? Not the dis %?

In a lot of places yes. The city I grew up in I knew people who lived off of welfare. I knew them personally. They would wait every month for the check. When it came close to running out they would get a low paying job for a month or 2 and then right back on there. They repeated this cycle for years. And if it was a woman she would just have another child. People like this DO exist. I am not refering to those who just need a little assistance for awhile. Life happens. I am refering to those who just sit on the system and find every way to do so.

 

[maddhatir]

The poor just want to take and give nothing, so they are not vested (but they should be as that gravy train can dry up).

You should be ashamed yourself. As disgusted as I am by people who make these comments, I always thank them. Thank them for making me a more compassionate person.

I will leave you with something I love to say- "Karma is a %$#@ baby!"

So you have never met a person who just sponged off the governemnt? I have met plenty and they disgust me.

Ohhhhh- Silly me! I have learned not to lump the POOR IN with the "criminals" who milk the system. Obviously, just like so many Americans, you haven't learned the difference.

 

[superme80]

Ohhhhh- Silly me! I have learned not to lump the POOR IN with the "criminals" who milk the system. Obviously, just like so many Americans, you haven't learned the difference.

Truce I know the differnce and I believe that is what the poster was refering to.

 

[58cognac]

The 53% have been around for a while. You do not hear much from them. Oh btw- do you know why the 47% do not pay taxes? Their income is so pathetic, they don't need to.

So. How's everyone liking the Koch brothers?

Just watched a PBS special last night that they helped fund, it was a really interesting show about a 5000 year old man found under ice, AMAZING things they've learned from that mummy! My kids just love PBS, lots of really enriching stuff on there.

 

[maddhatir]

Just watched a PBS special last night that they helped fund, it was a really interesting show about a 5000 year old man found under ice, AMAZING things they've learned from that mummy! My kids just love PBS, lots of really enriching stuff on there.

Oh yes. The Koch brothers. America's humanitarians.

 

[58cognac]

Oh yes. The Koch brothers. America's humanitarians.

kind of like George Soros, huh?

I was just commenting on the coincidence of watching that show last night that my kids really enjoyed and were engaged in.

 

[maddhatir]

kind of like George Soros, huh?

I was just commenting on the coincidence of watching that show last night that my kids really enjoyed and were engaged in.

Yes. What a coincidence. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

 

[Geoff_M]

I am grateful for my opportunity but I am also not going to pretend that my income does not have perks. I pay probably less % of taxes than the average middle class person. I do it legally thanks to the hundreds of write offs and tax breaks available to me. Last year the average million dollar earning in my company paid an average 15.7% taxes. fifteen %.

I love how the Buffet Mythology that somehow rich people pay less in taxes than the "non-rich" continues to have currency in this debate. The fact is that by every objective measure, such as real dollars paid and effective tax rates, the wealth pay more than any other group. See this FactCheck.org story on Warren Buffet's Secretary and this CBO analysis.

Sure you can find extreme outliers, such as Buffet (whose income is based on his ownership of ~$52B in stock and bonds and not ordinary income), but it's generally a bad idea to try and develop group-based policies by assuming that the extremes are the norm.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

You do realize that the average person on government assistance (food stamps or welfare, not including medicaid) is only on there for 24-34 months right? A study by the urban institute found that generally 70% of recepients left after 24 months and almost all left when they were able to find employment. So contrary to the make believe world of the dis, most would and do leave public assistance once they find employment.

this is true to some extent.. then you have the "others" who continue to have children & they claim they do not know who the father is so they can continue to get their assistance. I have seen that side of it in the areas where I lived and live now. I also work next to the bldg where the pregnant teens attend schoool. They allow these kids to go to school while pregnant and once their child is born, their child attends the free daycare center they have for them. These teens collect benefits for themselves, and their children. They get free diapers, formula and food while they are at school, not to mention WIC (women, infant & children's program where they get more free formula & some free food to some extent), then they also get their food stamps on top of all of this. Now OK, they made a mistake, they had a child... you think they would learn, NOPE, you see them on the school bus ramp with one kid on each side of them & pregnant again... still in school and under some under 16 years old! They are going to be milking the system for many years to come... milking on my dime.. I should say, my dollar.. seems I have a dime left after all the dollars are taken out for taxes to support these kids having kids... yes, the real welfare system should only support you for 12-24 months... but when you keep popping those babies out, the checks keep on coming.. and they know that.. they learned it from their mother.. it is a learned behavior.

You do have the one's who really need assistance for what it was meant to be.. assistance. They are the ones who get off of it once they find work. They don't make a life of it, and do not intend to. They use it for what it is.. "assistance", to aid them in getting by while things have taken a turn for the worse. Then you have the ones I described above, they milk the system for all they can.. for years and years. They have who knows how many kids by who know how many different fathers. They collect no child support, yet they will live with the baby's father for a period of time and each will be collecting a check. They will be driving their fancy cars & eating better than you and I with their food stamps, all on our tax $$$

 

[leahjade]

Just read in the paper yesterday that these protesters have already cost the city of Philadelphia over $500,000 in security and clean up costs! This is a city that can hardly afford teachers and police officers so I don't think the taxpayers should be footing the bill for people to express their often uniformed opinions. You want change - VOTE for a candidate with your values and if you can't find one, run for office yourself!

 

[eliza61]

Just read in the paper yesterday that these protesters have already cost the city of Philadelphia over $500,000 in security and clean up costs! This is a city that can hardly afford teachers and police officers so I don't think the taxpayers should be footing the bill for people to express their often uniformed opinions. You want change - VOTE for a candidate with your values and if you can't find one, run for office yourself!

too bad, that is the price we pay for living in a free society. No where does it say "the right to gather" only if the city can afford it!! Your taxes go to pay for some things unfortunately that you don't like. You know how long my taxes went to pay for those stupid mummers day parades. LOL, not to mention the overtime to pay cops to sit in the front of streets around citizen bank park to make sure people don't park in south philly neighborhoods. Really, like people parking there one night is going to destroy the neighborhood.

Yes, I vote and I protest. deal with it. the city will just have to pay. what, you can protest but only if it's affordable and you can't in any way inconvenience anyone. LOL. yeah that will definitely bring about change.

Oh and most people can't just run for office. It cost money. In some districts in NJ almost 500K bond must be offered. That's another of the problems with our system you either have to have very deep pockets or you get deep pockets to pay for you which leads to the morons we now have in Congress. They have to spend so much time fundraising and then they are beholding to the deep pockets that put them there.

 

[mikkiwikki]

No. Not spitballs from the sidelines. I have been in the discussion. Not with you particularly. I read your post and commented. That's how the forum works. I was quite clear. But you didn't comment on "what" I had to say. You painted around it with facts that had nothing to do with the language you chose, and I pointed out. That was the issue, your language.

I didn't mention anything about your facts. I stated you used the same "tactic" you accused of the media of doing. There is a fact for you. Calling someone a "lemming" that doesn't share your view is dismissing your opponent. You know, the very thing that is "killing" you with OWS, the dismissing thing? Funny how that works both ways. Deflect all you wish. But it is what it is.

Please tell me I'm wrong again because you continue to prove my point. Your language is dismissive to me too. You just want to roll right over what I have to say. It doesn't matter to you how you say something because you are "right". That's the way a lot of people view OWS. You guys come across as though you are right about everything and the ends justify the means. Well, guess what, it doesn't. The same courtesies and laws apply to you that you want everyone else to adhere to.

Funny, the ends justifying the means is exactly what got us where we are now. Using it to get us out will only make matters worse IMO.

ok maybe calling the guy with a note deriding OTHER people as useless.....a LEMMING was harsh? wait ....let me think about that...Well .He actually was doing the same...was he not? dismissing a segment of the population saying he made it because he worked hard and they just need to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and all will be well.

Would you care to comment on items posted like
"...These are inescapable facts. Housing prices have skyrocketed.
How is it that a typical family in 1970s only needed ONE working parent. .....that is not possible today. How is it that our home that I lived in for 20 years..was the cost of my fathers annual income.The average american home NOW is 4-8 times their annual income."
or any of the graphs? I would like to have a discussion on things that matter rather than my tone. Ill try harder not to be dismissive to a person who is clearly being dismissive. ie the super cool NOTE guy...