Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[OceanAnnie]

The economy is a dance isn't it? Where is that other partner? Who is in the lead position, making the rules? Perception is what divides us, I believe. Not the anger or frustration.

 

[eliza61]

No--it has merit. It depends on the annoyance and depends on if you are breaking the law.

You mention Egypt. Are you aware that protestors broke into the museum and tried to steal artifacts? They were protesting--but they were doing something illegal. There was also violence by the protestors.

Is that okay in your acceptance of the right to protest?

No its not ok but it is to be expectant. Unfortunately with any protest you have wackadoodles who have other agendas. I would have loved it during civil rights if no one resorted to violence but the fact of the matter is, evil exist.

So yes, it is an acceptable risk because the other alternative is to ban protesting because you will fear some thing may jump off.

I would love it, if after every super bowl celebration or world series celebration no one would get stupid drunk and start a fight or burning a car but you know what, idiots unfortunately have access to alcohol and tickets.

You don't trample the rights of the majority because bo-bo the clown may show up and act like a park ape.

 

[eliza61]

That is a great article and illustrates a part of the problem quite well. There is too much disparity between the rich and everyone else but what can be done about it? I don't begrudge people making as much money as they can so how can it be split up more reasonably without infringing on individual rights?
Bringing down Wall Street won't happen. Too many people at all levels of income are invested in it. (401K anyone? Have those in favor if OWS checked to see what stock they actually have?). This topic becomes interesting when real proposals are made as some have already done on this thread.

That's the problem. right now individual rights have already been tossed out. The laws are written exclusively to benefit a certain economic group of people.

There is no way statistically possible for one group to have a 237% growth in their income (between 1970-2005) without some type of outside influence while the rest of the population has at most a 10% growth. NO way.

A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found the gap between the nation’s richest Americans and those within the middle class widened significantly over a period of 28 years. According to the report, between 1979 and 2007, the average income for the nation’s top 1 percent nearly tripled, while the household income of middle class Americans grew by less than 40 percent.

Top 1 Percent of Rich Show Income Grow of 275 PercentThe CBO report revealed staggering numbers this week as it showcased just how much the gap has widened between the top 1 percent of the population and the rest of the country in terms of wealth.

The highest-paid Americans saw their average inflation-adjusted household income grow by 275 percent over the 28-year period. In contrast, the remainder of the population’s richest one-fifth saw their incomes grow by about 65 percent.

As for middle class earners, incomes grew only 40 percent. Low-income Americans suffered the most, seeing a very slight increase of 18 percent between 1979 and 2007, according to the CBO study based on IRS and Census data.

This is from the CBO. the people who supposedly track t his stuff.
those influences whether in the form of tax laws that favor one group, business laws that favor one group or banking laws that favor one group are definitely an infringement.

I have a 401K and I have no problem with Merril lynch doing its business. I do have a very real problem with merril lynch paying a bazillon dollars for lobbyist to get special tax favors and deregulation laws passed.

I have no problems with big businesses capitalizing on markets, I have a huge problem with big business pouring billons of dollars into congress to advanced globalization which has done nothing but shipped jobs elsewhere.


I donot want some sort of artifical wealth redistribution but please stop pretending that the playing field is level.

 

[mikkiwikki]

Funny that no one has done anything about this.....until now Abe! Very sad that we let it get to this point. And now, people don't understand the anger?

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed" Abe Lincoln

We the people apparently are too tied up in our tiny very tiny miniscule piece of the pie. The thing that kills me is how the media is portraying OWS as a bunch of hippies. DRUG using violent hippies. Perfect psychological ploy. Dismiss your opponent, paint them as inferior! That's what is happening all over the news. i happen to know there are many employed people marching with OWS..Americans who are fearful with corruption in our country.

WE nEED to unite and stop dividing and labeling ourselves. They are running away with our country...and we are busy INFIGHTING

 

[mikkiwikki]

Interesting article regarding the backlash of occupy wallstreet

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/

YES I have READ THE ONE paid lemmings' hand written note...very very interesting.
Where are all the other notes? yea for this one guy super dee duper. lest we forget the rest?

As it were, for the record - I make more money than this guy. It's true. AND by your post, it's very very clear our country apparently is cool with AFFILITIATION of $$ = worth of humanbeings ...touche'?

More facts about the well being of the American family would be welcomed. Is this an testament to the number of jobs sent over seas.?
Because this one idividual got a break is a case that America is ok? Really?

more facts for you -

 

[OceanAnnie]

We the people apparently are too tied up in our tiny very tiny miniscule piece of the pie. The thing that kills me is how the media is potraying OWS as a bunch of hippies. DRUG using violent hippies. Perfect psychological ploy. Dismiss your opponent, paint them as inferior! That's what is happening all over the news. i happen to know there are many employed people marching with ows...Americans who are fearful with corruption in our country.

WE nEED to unite and stop dividing and labeling ourselves. They are running away with our country...and we are busy INFIGHTING

YES I have READ THE ONE paid lemmings' hand written note...very very interesting.

However, as it were, for the record - I make more money than this guy. It's true.
And by your post, it's very very clear our country apparently is cool with AFFILITIATION of $$ = worth of humanbeings
touche'?

More facts about the well being of the American family would be welcomed. Is this an testament to the number of jobs sent over seas.?
Because this one idividual got a break is a case that America is ok? Really?

Isn't that what you just did?

 

[roadtripper]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I have been following the movement. As others have said, there are always some fringe elements that attach themselves to any movement (like the Obama w/a Hitler mustache people at Tea Party rallies). You can't judge a movement by those people. The OWS movement does have a Declaration of Principles; you can Google it; it's basically about corporate personhood and the influence of money in politics. In terms of what they can accomplish, they got Obama to move up changes to student loan provisions via executive order so he didn't have to go through a Congress that wouldn't have passed it--and that was just this week.
I think they are getting a really bad rap in the media; let's not forget that the media is corporately owned, too.

 

[PebblesMom]

I am torn on this...
On one hand I work for a company that is making record profits. My boss is sitting on $100K + in flex payroll. We have a spare company car sitting in our parking lot (never even driven). My boss is set to recieve a BONUS that is 2x what I bring in every year because he has cut our payroll budget so much. We are no longer getting yearly raises and hours are being cut. Greed at its finest! I think something needs to be done about corp. greed and the systems set up that allow it to flourish.
On the other hand I worked my tail end off in college, working full time and took out a small amount in student loans that I worked hard to pay off. My brother took out as much as they would let him. He bought new clothes, took trips, had the newest gadgets and came out with the same degree but 10x the amount in student loan debt. I saw many, many people who used student loans to create a lifestyle and not just pay for an education, so I would be dissapointed if those people could just walk away from that debt. It just seems so unfair....and isn't that greed too?
I believe in freedom of speech, so I support their right to be out protesting. I think something needs to be done about the greed, but there seems to be so many different messages that I am not sure they will accomplish what they want to (or what I would want them to).

 

[superme80]

As for the name calling comment I was trying to keep the thread from being closed down. We are supposed to be civil. That is all.

Basicall what I think it boils down to is there is a problem that needs to be fixed. The question is who is responsible to fix it? Is it the people's responsibility or the governments? Many people are saying the governemnt has to create laws, step in and "fix it". Others say we need to vote with our dollars until it hurts the companies. Lots of good discussion.

 

[Planogirl]

I donot want some sort of artifical wealth redistribution but please stop pretending that the playing field is level.

I don't believe that the field is level at all. However I also don't see a way to redistribute that wealth without trampling on the rights of those who are wealthy. I'm far from wealthy so it's not about me. It's about making the playing field level while following the laws and also not damaging those institutions that are still good. I do believe that that is possible.

Yes, I know that people marched for civil rights. I do believe that they had a more distinct message than OWS and with the exception of certain fringe groups were a very orderly group of people. They had a wonderful message which resonated well. OWS' message seems to be all over the place or at least that's what I've seen.

 

[Planogirl]

It's interesting that the media is apparently bad too when supposedly they are overly liberal and always picking on the conservatives. It sounds like they are against everyone.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No its not ok but it is to be expectant. Unfortunately with any protest you have wackadoodles who have other agendas. I would have loved it during civil rights if no one resorted to violence but the fact of the matter is, evil exist.

So yes, it is an acceptable risk because the other alternative is to ban protesting because you will fear some thing may jump off.

I would love it, if after every super bowl celebration or world series celebration no one would get stupid drunk and start a fight or burning a car but you know what, idiots unfortunately have access to alcohol and tickets.

You don't trample the rights of the majority because bo-bo the clown may show up and act like a park ape.

So is permitting trampling rights? Because the precise reason for permitting is to mitigate any issues that come when people assemble. Authorities are aware, people can be notified and plan their lives accordingly.

Riots that ensue after a victory or a loss of a game are not acceptable either. And due to a host of liability issues, this is why venues stop the sale of alcohol. They never used to. Sure, people still find ways--but it at least helps to reduce the likelihood of a problem. Also why their is an increased police presence.

Permitting--helps to REDUCE the likelihood of a problem so that people can PEACEFULLY assemble.

Permitting has withstood constitutional muster.

 

[eliza61]

So is permitting trampling rights? Because the precise reason for permitting is to mitigate any issues that come when people assemble. Authorities are aware, people can be notified and plan their lives accordingly.

Riots that ensue after a victory or a loss of a game are not acceptable either. And due to a host of liability issues, this is why venues stop the sale of alcohol. They never used to. Sure, people still find ways--but it at least helps to reduce the likelihood of a problem. Also why their is an increased police presence.

Permitting--helps to REDUCE the likelihood of a problem so that people can PEACEFULLY assemble.

Permitting has withstood constitutional muster.

Depends on what the venue is. Some public spaces do not need permits for assembly, they have inherent "right to organize" in them. Here in Philly its places like fairmont park.
and from what I've read, you don't need a permit to occupy Zuccotti Park, which ironically use to be Liberty Place Plaza. Evidently it is not subject to park curfews and allowed to stay open 24/7. There were some issues concerning sanitation but those reportedly have been worked out with a private citizen (russell simmons volunteering to pick up the tab for cleaning)
You don't need a permit to assemble in many sections of fairmont parks.
Our city hall also doesn't require anyone to have a permit but there are "public safety" concerns. for example our occupy participants have the help of the Quakers, who are providing showers, toilets and food so the participants won't have open fires. stuff like that.

Most sports venues only stop sale of alcohol after a certain time. I don't know of any NFL or ML stadium that is dry.

Permitting is not the only way police are able to maintain control. Police are fully capable of estimating crowd levels. Interestingly enough it seems the only time there has been violence is when the police have been called in to stop the demonstration. LOL. hummmm reminds me of another time in my life when I've been protesting peacefully until the police showed up........oh how history repeats itself.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Guess they need to teach more history in school because these kids don't seem to know that's what caused the Great Depression!

You mean that wasn't O'bama's fault He seems to be getting the blame for the economic downward spiral in today's times....

 

[A Mickeyfan]

One thought I had while seeing the tents covered in snow on the news - the USA is practically the only place I can think of where people who have a place to live would deliberately sleep in a tent during a snow storm just to prove a point.
All over the world, Turkey for example, people are forced to sleep in tents often with 10 or more people to a tent, because of the earthquake in this example. People on Haiti are still sleeping in tents and have no home to go to once this "protest" is over. And I am sure that there are many other places where a tent would be considered luxury and these people think they are roughing it.
Crazy world we live in, isn't it?

It sure is crazy.. it is crazy that one would have to go to that extend to get their point heard... On the same token, it is awesome that they will do it and not back down right away... there are some who are passionate about their cause...

I do wonder if any of those who are protesting and sleeping in tents were from Hurricanes gone by who lost homes and had to sleep in tents due to the red tape that held back funds from being sent to re-build, or better yet, having to live in the tent because they were fighting with their insurance company over what the company felt they should allow you to rebuild your home. Wonder how many in New Orleans are protesting...

 

[maddhatir]

Interesting article regarding the backlash of occupy wallstreet

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/

The 53% have been around for a while. You do not hear much from them. Oh btw- do you know why the 47% do not pay taxes? Their income is so pathetic, they don't need to.

So. How's everyone liking the Koch brothers?

 

[SPBendersky]

I think its more like the frustrated unemployed blowing off steam. But it is also making people think, and what should be happening going into an election year. It is also a glimpse of what is to come, because it is not going to get much better for a very long time, don't care what the financial channels say on TV all artificial BS.

 

[maddhatir]

i happen to know there are many employed people marching with ows...Americans who are fearful with corruption in our country.

Funny. I know 3 employed people and 2 retired people (one happens to be disabled) who march too, in Philly. Who? Me. DH. FIL. mom and MIL.

I have never felt more proud to be an American than when I am marching.

 

[maddhatir]

It sure is crazy.. it is crazy that one would have to go to that extend to get their point heard... On the same token, it is awesome that they will do it and not back down right away... there are some who are passionate about their cause...
..

I tell everyone, "the people in the US and around the world are all protesting b/c they are bored. There is nothing wrong with the way things are run. I repeat, there is nothing wrong. Everything is fine. No worries. Now go back to sleep."

 

[mikkiwikki]

Funny. I know 3 employed people and 2 retired people (one happens to be disabled) who march too, in Philly. Who? Me. DH. FIL. mom and MIL.

I have never felt more proud to be an American than when I am marching.

Rock on brother --- whoops maybe wont use that 60s terminology how about
ROCK ON PATRIOT!