Alligator dragged 2 year old into 7 seas lagoon

[luvflorida]

My prayers and thoughts go out to this family. I can not imagine what they are going through right now. This is all I've been able to think about since I first heard the story on the news last night. I feel numb and sick to my stomach. That poor baby, that poor family.

I absolutely do not fault the family in any way. I am not from Florida, but have spent a lot of time there. I have vacationed there every year for over 60 years. Many of those vacations have been at Disney World. I am from Maine, but I know there are alligators in all fresh water lakes, ponds, etc. in Florida. I know there are snakes in the water and I've known about the brain eating amoebas for years. Having said all that, I have NEVER, EVER, EVER thought of the possibility of an alligator snatching a person from the water's edge at any of the Disney resorts.

And I think the reason for that, rational or not, is because of the way the resort beaches are set up. I have never stayed at the Grand Floridian, but have stayed at the Yacht and Beach Club over the years. They have a beautiful area with well-groomed white sand that leads to the water. There are beach chairs and lounge chairs on the beach. I'm assuming the GF beach and Poly look very similar. I KNOW it is a man-made beach, I KNOW the water is not salt water, but it LOOKS like a beach. I'm also one who does not equate NO SWIMMING signs to mean do not put your feet in the water. To me, submerging yourself in the water and going for a swim is completely different from walking along the water's edge and getting your feet wet. I've always thought the no swimming signs were there because of the quality of the water.

Just last month, my family and I stayed at the Beach Club. One afternoon I took all three of my grandkids (ages 7, 5 and 2) for a walk around the resort. We were walking by Hurricane Hanna's (a counter service food place near the pool and beach area) and I thought what a beautiful afternoon to grab some Mickey Bars and take them over to the beach area and enjoy the sun and sand. So the grandkids happily took their shoes off and sat by some big rocks on the beach and ate their Mickey Bars. I had my camera with me and I took some beautiful pics of them eating their ice cream while sitting on the sand with the water in the background. In a few pics, they're sitting with their backs close to a bunch of weedy looking grass with a stretch of sand behind it and then the water. I had told the grandkids not to go near the water's edge, but again, it was because I didn't think the water was all that clean. Again, it NEVER entered my mind that an alligator could be lurking nearby. Heck, there was a hair braiding/hair wrap station set up on the sand not far from us.

A few nights later, we were on the beach at the BC sitting in lounge chairs watching an outdoor movie. The inflatable movie screen was set up not far from the water's edge, so we were sitting pretty close to the water. I remember seeing a little boy (maybe 6 or 7 years old) playing in the sand very close to the waters edge. Again, not once did the thought of alligators cross my mind.

I can tell you now, after hearing this horrific story last night, I will NEVER, EVER, EVER be on any of the resort's beaches again, nor allow anyone else I know to be on them either.

I have a question for those more informed on wildlife issues. While my grandkids were eating their Mickey Bars on the beach, three ducks waddled up out of the water and onto the sand. They were quite friendly and walked over to us, and were more than happy to grab any pieces of the chocolate coating that fell off the kids' ice cream bars. Of course, the grandkids' delighted in this duck invasion. My questions is- If there were alligators around, would the ducks be there, too? Are there ducks near the GF and Poly beaches, too?

I also agree that Disney should change their signs to be more specific about the reasons for no swimming and no wading. From some of the things I'm learning about the habits of alligators from other's on this thread, I'd go so far as to say maybe nobody should be allowed on the sand.

I am so heartbroken for this baby and his family.

 

[asta]

I think there just needs to be a size decision and that's what it is.

The gators are relocated I believe.

The Florida Wildlife official said in the latest press conference that they are killed, not relocated. Moving them moves the risk to some other area.

 

[HarleenQ]

The Florida Wildlife official said in the latest press conference that they are killed, not relocated. Moving them moves the risk to some other area.

Really? News to me. Thanks.

Kind of a shame though.

 

[bcla]

I think the Florida Wildlife official said that they are euthanized when removed. Relocating them would be moving the problem to another area.

They explain it pretty well. Relocating can often just move the problem elsewhere as well as add an individual that probably won't blend in with the local population. They often try coming back.

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/nuisance/

Why does the FWC not relocate nuisance alligators in Florida?
Florida has a healthy and stable alligator population. We have about 1.3 million alligators in Florida. Alligators live in all 67 counties, and they inhabit all wild areas of Florida that can support them. The removal of nuisance alligators does not have a significant impact on our state's alligator population.

Relocated alligators often try to return to their capture site. They can create problems for people or other alligators along the way. If an alligator successfully returns, capturing it again would be necessary and likely more difficult the second time.

To avoid creating a problem at the release site, nuisance alligators would need to be relocated to remote areas where they would not encounter people. These remote areas already have healthy alligator populations, and the ones that already live there have established social structures. The introduction of a new alligator to these areas would likely cause fighting, possibly resulting in the death of a resident alligator or the introduced alligator.​

 

[pocomom]

Two questions, well I guess one rhetorical curiousness and one question.

Why does disney wait until they are of a large size to remove the gators? Is a 3.5' gator harmless while a 4.5' gator deadly?

What does disney do with the gators once they are removed? Where do they go?

That's standard for removal .. big gator=bigger prey.
They are not as dangerous (to humans) when they are little. I also think they probably can't remove ALL. I mean they are at their peak searching right now and have found 5 and none were the perpetrator. There are probably DOZENS on property at any given time.
They kill the gators that are caught.

I think there just needs to be a size decision and that's what it is.

The gators are relocated I believe.

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/nuisance/
Gators aren't considered a nuisance until they are 4 ft. Big gators are destroyed.

 

[JimMIA]

I think the Florida Wildlife official said that they are euthanized when removed. Relocating them would be moving the problem to another area.

Like "euthanized," "relocation" is one of those touchy-feely myths with most wildlife. They take the alligators out of sight and shoot them (.22 cal to the brain).

Depending on the species, "relocation" of problematic wildlife is a death sentence anyway in many cases. For example, with our endangered Florida Panther, if you "relocate" a young adult male, you're putting a 2 year old, 100 pound animal who has never been in a fight into the range of a 10 year old 150 pound male who has never lost a fight (panthers fight to the death, unlike most species). You might as well just shoot him -- same outcome (except for the fictional feel-good thing), more humane.

 

[Ziggie]

BEST POST EVER!

You're too kind... thank you.

I think there just needs to be a size decision and that's what it is.

The gators are relocated I believe.

From the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission website...

Alligators less than 4 feet in length are not large enough to be dangerous unless handled. They eat fish, frogs and other small animals. Typically, they are not large enough to be a threat even to small pets.

You can read more here: http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/nuisance/

 

[zoo2tycoon]

I found that on TMZ. Supposed sign at beach. Think wording about drop off might be a concern but...

People need to quit blaming Disney and the parents. It is sad in this society when a tragedy happens the blame game starts. Blame the parents, blame Disney, from the weekend tragedy the politicians blaming each other. It needs to stop and people need to grieve. This family could have posted on here asking questions. It is easy to stand back and say I'd never let my kids wade in there, etc. These parents have to live with this the rest of their lives and don't need stupid comments on a message board, like maybe it was a good photo op or maybe they weren't watching or on their iPad. Are your eyes on your kids 100 per of the time? I hate lake water but 8 years ago my kids waded in that water by the Poly. I know Florida has gators but the thought never would have entered connecting the 2----Disney and gator attack.

I'm just going to hug my kids today...even though they might not want one and keep this family in my prayers and all the other Orlando victims.

 

[wmoon]

It is heartbreaking to hear this. My heart goes out to that family, I cannot imagine how those parents are feeling. It is tragic.
We are from the UK and from the moment we first visited ds was warned of alligators and snakes, he did not go near the water when we stayed at the Polynesian or the Yacht Club. It has surprised me to read how many people say they didn't think that there would be alligators in the water in Disney but are regular readers or posters to this or other Disney boards.

 

[Disneefun]

I have a question for those more informed on wildlife issues. While my grandkids were eating their Mickey Bars on the beach, three ducks waddled up out of the water and onto the sand. They were quite friendly and walked over to us, and were more than happy to grab any pieces of the chocolate coating that fell off the kids' ice cream bars. Of course, the grandkids' delighted in this duck invasion. My questions is- If there were alligators around, would the ducks be there, too? Are there ducks near the GF and Poly beaches, too?

Absolutely. Ducks are gator food so where there are ducks, there are likely gators. In an optimal world, the ducks would go elsewhere, but in nature there are no places that are "safe." Predator and prey live in close proximity and it's survival of the fittest. It's like saying that the wildabeasts wouldn't be around if there were lions in the vicinity, yet, there they are and, yes, they get eaten. So if you see ducks, don't assume that they wouldn't be living there if it wasn't "safe." Animals live in their habitats and that often puts them in the same area as their enemies. Just the way it is.

Speaking of ducks and gators... A few years ago we were at CSR walking along the pathway. A family of ducks came out of the water, mom and four little ones. Not far behind them came a small gator, snatched one of the babies and was gone in an instant. Cute turned to awful in a second.

 

[Malibustyle23]

Thanks for the answer (I guess that answers why they wait until a certain size to remove them) now that's sparked another question.

What do they do with all of these euthanized gators?! Do they make any use of the meat, skin, donate to vet schools, etc or just bruy/cremate and move on?

 

[PollyannaMom]

I've seen many comments (not necessarily here) shaming the parents for letting their child wade in the water. It seems more and more people are lacking compassion nowadays and quite frankly it sickens me. Granted, I would not have let my child go in the water, but please give this poor family a break.

My heart breaks for them. My heart breaks for that poor little guy. I cannot imagine what they're going through.

I agree. This family has been beyond punished by the tragedy itself. I can't imagine how they will go on after something like this. And they don't need anyone telling them what they shouldn't have done. I'm sure hindsight has them thinking of 1000 ways the evening could have gone differently.

But I think this:

I guess it makes people feel better to say that they would never allow their child to be in that situation; I guess it makes you feel safer. But tragedy can strike anyone, at any time.

explains why people jump to "I wouldn't have..." In today's fast-paced, uncertain world, people cling to anything that makes them feel in control. If you know you have (or would have) told your own kids "no" to playing in the water there, you feel less terrified that something like this will happen to you next. Those thoughts aren't about blaming the parents, but about protecting yourself emotionally.


Unfortunately, I think these comments are true as well:

Signage doesn't help. The sign in our lake says Don't Feed the Alligators and yet people will stand there throwing bread.

The problem is everyone has gotten so sign happy, no one follows them.

People ignore rules all the time - because they don't see them, because they misinterpret them, because...whatever. I'm not sure better signs would have helped because it's such a rare thing to happen.

 

[Malibustyle23]

Like "euthanized," "relocation" is one of those touchy-feely myths with most wildlife. They take the alligators out of sight and shoot them (.22 cal to the brain).

Depending on the species, "relocation" of problematic wildlife is a death sentence anyway in many cases. For example, with our endangered Florida Panther, if you "relocate" a young adult male, you're putting a 2 year old, 100 pound animal who has never been in a fight into the range of a 10 year old 150 pound male who has never lost a fight (panthers fight to the death, unlike most species). You might as well just shoot him -- same outcome (except for the fictional feel-good thing), more humane.

Oh goodness gracious! I realized there were gators around not the abundance but I did realize they were in the state. I had no idea there are PANTHERS!!!!

 

[bcla]

Thanks for the answer (I guess that answers why they wait until a certain size to remove them) now that's sparked another question.

What do they do with all of these euthanized gators?! Do they make any use of the meat, skin, donate to vet schools, etc or just bruy/cremate and move on?

Up to the property owner. If it's on private property, the state doesn't go around trapping nuisance gators. It has to be performed by a private trapper. They recommend the carcass be dumped. The following applies to all wildlife, but obviously release of trapped alligators isn't allowed.

http://myfwc.com/conservation/you-conserve/assistnuisance-wildlife/faqs/

What do I do with a nuisance animal after it is caught?
Live-captured nuisance wildlife must be released legally or euthanized humanely within 24 hours of capture or trap inspection. Any non-target wildlife should be released immediately at the capture site. Unless prohibited by rabies alert or quarantine issued by County Health Department or County Animal Control, live captured nuisance wildlife may be transported only for the purpose of euthanasia or for legal release, Euthanasia guidelines can be found on the Report of the American Veterinary Medical Association Panel on Euthanasia. Only native species of wildlife may be released.

Native nuisance wildlife may be released on the property of the landowner where captured provided the release site and capture site are located on one contiguous piece of property. Native nuisance wildlife may be released off the capture site if the release site is a minimum of 40 contiguous acres, located in the same county as the capture site, and the person releasing the nuisance wildlife has in their possession written permission from the landowner of the release site allowing release on their property. Nuisance wildlife may not be released on federal, state, county, local or private lands without written permission of the landowner.

Where and how is a carcass disposed?
To dispose of carcasses, please keep these precautions in mind and follow these instructions. When handling dead birds or other wildlife, work outdoors and try to stay upwind of the carcass. When bagging the carcass, keep the open end of the bag away from your face. Do not eat, drink, or smoke while handling carcasses. Do not store carcasses in a cooler, freezer, or refrigerator used for human or animal food, and wash hands thoroughly after handling. Wash any clothing that comes into contact with the carcass with normal household detergent at normal temperatures.

Disposal of dead animals: open up two heavy plastic trash bags. Avoid touching the carcass with your bare hands. Pick up the carcass using disposable gloves or plastic bags worn on your hands. Place the carcass in the first heavy plastic trash bag. Keep the open end of the bag pointed away from your face while tying securely. Next remove gloves or plastic bags from your hands by turning them inside out. Dispose of the gloves or plastic bags in the second heavy trash bag and place the first bag (containing the carcass) in the second bag, as well. Tie the second bag securely and place it in the garbage. If there are many carcasses to be disposed of, please first speak with your local waste management facility.
​

 

[bcla]

Oh goodness gracious! I realized there were gators around not the abundance but I did realize they were in the state. I had no idea there are PANTHERS!!!!

The "Florida panther" is just a subspecies of mountain lion (aka cougar or puma). There are less than 200 in the wild.

 

[Hikergirl]

These parents did follow the rules, they weren't swimming in the water. Its pretty clear that "no swimming" is interpreted differently. To me it means don't go in the water, but to many others it just means don't swim in the water.

 

[sam_gordon]

There's 2 things I think of when I think of Florida

Alligators and Hurricanes

And how weird is it that both of them just so happen to be Florida sports team mascots?

So now we should be scared of these?

Wrong kind of 'Cane.

 

[kidshop]

One assumes that Disney keeps as close an eye on the gators as possible. They create a false sense of security. Think about it, they have a movie, on the beach, after dark. People assume that the beach is safe. It's unbelievable to me that people are blaming and shaming the parents. Unreal. I cannot imagine what these people are going through. They were watching their child, they were on what is supposed to be a magical family vacation, and their child gets killed by an alligator right in front of their eyes. They will never get that child's screams out of their heads. I cannot imagine what they are going through. I guess it makes people feel better to say that they would never allow their child to be in that situation; I guess it makes you feel safer. But tragedy can strike anyone, at any time.

I am just horrified. Those poor parents.

Honestly I place some blame on parents when things like this happen (sometimes all the blame!), but not this time. I think it is entirely reasonable to be out on that beach at night, Disney has activities out there after all. It is reasonable for that family to feel safe at this very expensive resort, on a man made beach that invites you to be there. (beach chairs, movie nights for children etc) That no swimming sign is not adequate to communicate that there are alligators in the lake. It's just not.

 

[Ziggie]

Talking about gators back in 2006 .... http://www.disboards.com/threads/fo...-water-at-7-seas-lagoon-and-bay-lake.1130305/

 

[nanienamou]

It is callous, not going to argue that but how many kids are we going see put in harms way through no fault of the ones who are suppose to protect them? Follow the freaking rules!!!! I'm sure you are one of many people who frequent Disney and would see this action and not say a single word to the parents because you're afraid of what they may or may not say back. That's the problem with so many people these days, they don't want to get involved. I'm not that person. If I see an adult putting their kids in a dangerous situation, I'll say something. If it's an adult, well you reap what you sow just like that idiot at Yellowstone. Maybe it would have changed the outcome, maybe not. If they just ignored me then I would have found a Disney employee. I'm sure someone saw these b fore it happened and I can guarantee they feel terrible about not saying something. As for the comment of them not learning, I sure hope you are wrong for the other kids sake if they have any.

Do you really think that the gator would not have attacked if the child was at the edge of water without touching it? I think it would have attacked anyway. Bottom line, we were not there, we didn't see what happened, nobody is sheltered from a tragic accident. Seriously, this parent-shaming thing should stop, these people just saw their son being dragged off by an alligator. It's atrocious. Just the thought of that prevented me from sleeping last night. It is horrendous. It's not our job to point fingers when we don't have all the facts, there will certainly be an investigation, let's just respect these parents in this time of grief. Jeez.