All The New Developments

[Planogirl]

Sooooo, back on topic. My wife has just accepted an invite for MDE and looked at a surprise reservation I was able to get but then commented that the one she knew about wasn't there. When I chuckled and said, "That's just some of the issues with all this," her smiling response was, "Well, someone needs to fix it."

Your post really sums all of this up IMO. Someone definitely needs to fix it.

Every place I've ever vacationed. You aren't seriously saying WDW is the only place you can have a fun and enjoyable vacation, are you?

I can think of a few. There are also slews of places that I've never been to that I can't judge fairly but I would love to check out.

I like the comment that WDW is comfortable for many of us. This new system throws many of that same group out of their comfort zone, myself included.

 

[snykymom]

MY main argument is not that people are assuming the worst. It's that they've worked themselves up to actually believe the worst is going to happen, for sure, and are scheduling their trips around it and/or threatening to cancel trips. When the only fact we know is that we DO NOT KNOW how it will work.

So for your undeniable fact above....I am denying that it is a fact that " FP+ will negatively impact those not wishing to micro-manage what rides they want to ride at a given time 2 months down the road." That is opinion. It might be a very educated opinion. It might even be the extremely educated opinion of a Cast Member, or an IT person, or even Ms. Cleo!

It is still an opinion. Like mine.

Yes, I am assuming the worst. I don't know it's going to happen. But just as I don't buy the 1.0 version of the latest operating system that Microsoft unleashes, I may postpone a trip until we're out of the 1.0 rollout of FP+. Those who say it'll work may be right; I certainly hope so. But in the meantime, I may decide to spend my hard-earned dollars, and my scarce vacation days, elsewhere.

Let other people take the risk. Likely not worth it to me.

 

[Rip]

Yup, I am. (Although I didn't use POTC as one of my examples. But I get your point.) But it is the CONCEPT that I'm talking about, not whether or not a Broadway show and POTC are the same from the standpoint of access or capacity. When you look at any given ride, if you want to ride it first thing in the morning or just before your lunch ADR or right before you leave the park at 10pm, then it does very much have fixed seating and a scheduled performance. There are only so many seats available during each given ride window. That's why lines form.

As I am looking at it, both things -- the play and my ride time on (for sake of argument) POTC -- are two things that I want to do at finite times. I know I want to see "Newsies" on Friday night at 8pm. I know I want to go on POTC as my very first ride on my very first MK day, because that's the tradition my kids and I have.

So for Newsies, I get online months in advance so that I can get the right seats on the right night and not have to pay a gazillion dollars for them. I have planned and scheduled and reserved those theater seats in advance. Everything else that day is in the wind -- I can do what I want and roam as I wish, as long as I get to the theatre in time for curtain. No other part of my day needs to be planned.

For POTC, I get online months in advance so that I can set up my FPs on the right day at the right time so that I don't have to get up at the crack of dawn to be at MK at rope drop and run through the park to get on the ride or pull the proper FP time. I can even sleep in on my first MK day, secure in the knowledge that I already have my ride time reserved, even if I decide that I want to enter MK at 11am. I have planned and scheduled and reserved those ride seats in advance. Everything else that day is in the wind -- I can do what I want and roam as I wish, as long as I get to the ride in time for my FP. No other part of my day needs to be planned.

Again ... how is that different?

Because POTC isn't a Broadway play. Neither is Space Mountain.

Oh, and Newsies lasts quite a bit longer. I mean, I ain't shelling out $400 just to see cap'n Jack.

 

[knewton64]

...ok here's one I thought I would ask.


With everything being micro chipped and all, wouldn't that expose the Guests personal information to thieves??
(the idea of people scanning - like they do with credit cards that have been mico-chipped).


and what is the Disney Corp doing to prevent things like this from happening??





T.T.F.N.

 

[keishashadow]

I'd love it too if I was one of a small number of testers in the park on a given day. Once you add tens of thousands of users, I doubt you'll have as many options when you want to make changes.

And did you get to pull regular FPs along with your FP+ slots?

You were testing a system with different parameters than the one the masses will get.

Will you like it as much when there are fewer choices because the good options were all snapped up 60 days out?

my sentiments exactly

The people who complain about having to plan rides 60 days out are the same people huddled over their computers at 12:00am at their 180+10 ADR day and pay for crowd calendars and touring plans. I call BS to their complaining. Frankly, if you're on the DIS and you're a regular contributor, you're most likely a planner.
Of course, being negative draws more attention and gets more responses.

I think we need a poll

there are legions of out-of-town fans who visit several times a year (many times deciding relatively last minute after the stated 60 day window for FP+); especially when the lure of 'just-one-more trip' on our annual passes coincides with DVC points or a FDP offer is burning a hole in our collective pockets.

Even with a trip booked more than 11 months ahead of time, there are days when I don't know what park i'll wind up in until I wake up. Spontaneity, even at the happiest place on earth, cannot be over-rated for many fervent fans. It keeps things fresh. It was nice to know we had a fair shake at a FP for a E-ticket attraction when we did manage to get it together and arrive early at a park. If it becomes a thing of the past, then we will likely curtail our visits, plain & simple. I'm not about to start being a commando again...carry on troops.

As for confidence in the new computer system LOLOLOL.

Disney has attempted to integrate DVC's system since the free dining plan began in 2005. Much to my dismay I discovered it still wasn't accomplished in June when a CM @ the MK mistakenly activated the wrong pass voucher for my DH.

boring detail ahead, feel free to skip: I specified we both wanted our PAPs activated but found out when we went to Disney Quest that night that mine was processed correctly but DH wound up with a 'regular' AP (for which "I" also had one stockpiled before the most recent offer). It took hours to try and resolve since the DVC offices were closed and they couldn't access their computer base to track the purchase since the supervisor told us "the computers still don't talk to each other..." They finally wound up cancelling DH's PAP, reissuing it and also a paper voucher for my next AP.

I shudder to think how the more complex issues of the FP+ will wind up sorting out. I know October will be another memorable trip for us, just hope for the right reasons.

 

[Rip]

Except I remember when this first started, everyone swore that the old fastpass would not change and would still be an option.

So, I have not read 21 pages of comments. I apologize.

I've gotten pretty philosophical about Disney and their changes.
after the last couple years I haven't been a big fan of these changes, for the most part I don't think they come from a desire to enhance guest enjoyment but rather a desire to enhance company's bottom line. That's cool as every one here is fond of saying , Disney is a business.

I still love disney but my love affair is waning. The "don't care for list" is getting long. Yes, I know for some starbucks is not a big deal, for me it's one more reason I think Disney is turning into a glorified 6 flags. No imagination, no originality. Fp+ is simply another brick on that list.

where before I couldn't imagine going any where else, now I've realized there are tons of wonderful places that we have just as much "magic". Disney is pretty much now our weekend, nothing else to do place. we use to go for at least 10 days now 4 is more than enough. we rarely eat on site and we're lucky our dvc has more than paid for itself.

But I also still enjoy hearing from folks who go and still find the magic.

Darlin, I could not have said it better meself.

 

[mesaboy2]

...ok here's one I thought I would ask.

With everything being micro chipped and all, wouldn't that expose the Guests personal information to thieves??
(the idea of people scanning - like they do with credit cards that have been mico-chipped).

and what is the Disney Corp doing to prevent things like this from happening??

T.T.F.N.

No. The best they could get is a unique number that means nothing to anyone but Disney's servers. Here's my number, go ahead and try to steal my identity: 638494123554.

 

[Rip]

I've been wanting to ask this in threads, but never got around to it. What other types of vacations are people going on that require zero advance planning?!
Seriously, for everyone who is upset about FP+ equaling over-the-top planning, what vacations can you take that don't require a similar level of planning?



You know that you can plan to see some Broadway shows day-of, right? It's not guaranteed that there will be availability in the one you REALLY want to see, of course. But you might get to pay a reduced price if you don't care.

Seats at a Broadway show are like FPs. There is a limited amount and many people DO plan to get theirs ahead of time. So, like TSMM or Book of Mormon, it isn't wise to show up at 8:00pm and expect to see it without booking in advance.

No, they are not. You do get the concept that paying for a specific seat at a specific date for a specific show does not equal trying to get a FP for a ride at an amusement park, yes?

Or maybe no.

 

[Jennasis]

Look what I found!

 

[Robbi]

Look what I found!

Now if only there was one with Mr. Magoo.

 

[Simba77]

Except I remember when this first started, everyone swore that the old fastpass would not change and would still be an option.

So, I have not read 21 pages of comments. I apologize.

I've gotten pretty philosophical about Disney and their changes.
after the last couple years I haven't been a big fan of these changes, for the most part I don't think they come from a desire to enhance guest enjoyment but rather a desire to enhance company's bottom line. That's cool as every one here is fond of saying , Disney is a business.

I still love disney but my love affair is waning. The "don't care for list" is getting long. Yes, I know for some starbucks is not a big deal, for me it's one more reason I think Disney is turning into a glorified 6 flags. No imagination, no originality. Fp+ is simply another brick on that list.

where before I couldn't imagine going any where else, now I've realized there are tons of wonderful places that we have just as much "magic". Disney is pretty much now our weekend, nothing else to do place. we use to go for at least 10 days now 4 is more than enough. we rarely eat on site and we're lucky our dvc has more than paid for itself.

But I also still enjoy hearing from folks who go and still find the magic.

Maybe it's just that Disney Parks have mostly always been this way, since the beginning (Monsanto House of the Future, anyone? A giant, white spaceship that was little more than corporate advertisement for a plastic manufacturing company, placed on nearly equal footing with Sleeping Beauty Castle?).

The biggest difference in 2013 is the internet and message boards, where we're given a chance to hear about every little thing, discuss every little thing, pick apart every little thing. Information flows when in the past there was literally no way to hear about the dirty side of financing a theme park. We have this romanticized view of the way Disney parks used to be. They never did anything that wasn't for the pure enjoyment of the park guest, right? Most of us were children and didn't know any different, and/or we had no place like a message board for us to hear other people's complaints and think to ourselves, "You know what? It's true, it's nothing but a money grab!" Back in the day, we didn't care that the Carnation Cafe or the Casa De Fritos were flat out corporate sponsorships, because we didn't know what a sponsorship was. But now, when we hear Starbucks, we pitch a fit as though Disney hasn't been a corporately sponsored entity since 1955. (Carnation Cafe was so named and opened with DL in 1955). Kodak, Maxwell House, Pepsi, Monsanto... the list of corporate sponsors whose presence was overtly visible to guests when DL opened is very long.

Did Walt really think people were clamoring for a giant plastic spaceship to be built beside Sleeping Beauty Castle? Or did he want to keep the cash from Monsanto flowing?

Yes, obviously Disney and WDW have changed to some extent. But I'm not so sure the core is any different now than it was then. We're just lacking the charismatic idealism of Walt Disney to shine and polish the dirty side of things. Without the internet, it was easier to sweep that stuff under the rug. Walt was an innovator, but the corporate pencil pushers were the only reason DL was able to get built in the first place when funds ran out, as they secured financing deals with Pepsi, ABC (who agreed to help finance DL if Walt did a TV show for them - yes, Walt basically sold out because he had no choice), Monsanto, etc. Dreams and visions are great, but if you can raise the money to realize them, it's not going to happen. Sometimes Walt was such a good spin doctor that we didn't notice things like corporate sponsorships and Big White Monsanto Spaceships in the middle of our beloved parks.

I'll leave you with this little excerpt from an article about the opening of Disneyland in 1955. You tell me if anything has changed.

From: http://academic.csuohio.edu/tah/rrr/docs/marling_ch3.pdf

Indeed, even before the previews began, speculation about costs and profits all but overshadowed discussion of the park's entertainment value. And while the press did not fail to wax eloquent about chronic traffic tie-ups around Disneyland, most of the first-year complaints came down to dollars and cents. How could pleasure and the bottom-line ethos of corporate America possibly mix? 'Walt's dream is nightmare," wrote one particularly disillusioned member of the fourth estate. "To me [the park] felt like a giant cash register, clicking and clanging, as creatures of Disney magic came tumbling down from their lofty places in my daydreams." Other writers on assignment in the park agreed. To them, Disneyland was just another tourist trap - a bigger, pricier version of the Santa Claus villages and the seedy Storylands cast up by the postwar baby boom and the blandishments of the automobile industry. It was commercial, a roadside money machine, cynically exploiting the innocent dreams of childhood. On his second visit to the complex, a wire service reporter cornered Disney and asked him about his profit margin. Walt was furious. "We have to charge what we do because this Park cost a lot to build and maintain," he barked. "I have no government subsidy."

Middlebrows continued to carp about the potential profitability of Disneyland, as if capitalism and consumerism were unfamiliar concepts or as if Disney's park, by virtue of its use of characters that all Americans knew and loved from his cartoon features and TV shows, ought to have been in the public domain - free or almost so, like an evening of television, a national park, or a national shrine. With few exceptions, highbrow critics of the 1950s despised Disneyland for similar reasons. Writing for the Nation, the novelist Julian Halevy took exception to an enterprise that charged admission to visit ersatz places masquerading as the Wild West or the Amazon Basin. At Disneyland, he argued, "the whole world . . . has been reduced to a sickening blend of cheap commercial formulas packaged to sell."

 

[Simba77]

No. The best they could get is a unique number that means nothing to anyone but Disney's servers. Here's my number, go ahead and try to steal my identity: 638494123554.

It's like the guy in the Lifelock commercial

I do understand people's concerns, especially with all the identity theft concerns. The concerns about Magicbands are definitely unfounded, though. It's just a coded number that identifies your account to the Disney system when it is scanned. People can't get anything more from your Magicband than they could get from your old KTTW cards or a mag-strip ticket. Your credit card on file with PayPal is probably a bigger risk than a Magicband.

 

[Mkrop]

Like where?

I mean this seriously.... because I think the latest posts in this thread have been implying that they expect the same non-planning they do in other vacations to be available to them at a WDW vacation...and of course, FP+ interferes with that idea. And I, of course, agree with a PP that you have to plan just as much for most comparable vacations. (Laying at the beach not withstanding.)

So can you name a few places off the top of your head that you find just as enjoyable as WDW?[/QUOTE]

Most are what eliza said, since we both live in the same area...we have done Hershey Park, Phily, DC, Baltimore, Busch Gardens Williamsburg with little to no planning. Vegas we have never planned, even when we took the kids, except a helicopter/van tour to the Grand Canyon, but we could have booked that last minute too if we wanted. Even our trip out to DL wasnt as planned as our FL trip bc they dont really do/need ADRs out there. We drove up the Pacific Coast and had a loose plan, but the KEY was that everything could be changed if necessary. We do spur of the moment trips all the time. And we do planned vacations, we liked the combo that WDW provided us.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

...ok here's one I thought I would ask.


With everything being micro chipped and all, wouldn't that expose the Guests personal information to thieves??
(the idea of people scanning - like they do with credit cards that have been mico-chipped).


and what is the Disney Corp doing to prevent things like this from happening??





T.T.F.N.

The chip, when read, ties in to the Disney servers. Your room, ticket, dining, etc., is on the Disney servers which can only be accessed by the Disney equipment.

Yes, the RFID chip can be duplicated, but not on the spot. And someone will be able to get into your room if they knew your room number, use your dining credits, use your park entries and fastpasses. But when?

And what Disney is doing about it comes under the heading of Security information which definitely is not public.

 

[doconeill]

...ok here's one I thought I would ask.


With everything being micro chipped and all, wouldn't that expose the Guests personal information to thieves??
(the idea of people scanning - like they do with credit cards that have been mico-chipped).


and what is the Disney Corp doing to prevent things like this from happening??

T.T.F.N.

There is no personal information about you on a MagicBand, or the RFID cards. They are not programmable like that.

Each one has a unique ID. In some situations, they may have several for added security and reliability. So if I get your MagicBand ID, all I have is a long string of numbers. This is actually NO DIFFERENT that before with the tickets/KTTW cards. The only difference is that they can be read from a distance, albeit a relatively short one.

That ID is a "key" to an entry in a database. When you scan your card/band, the local "computer" will make a connection to the database and get the relevant info - at a turnstile/entrance, it determines if there is a valid admission entitlement for that park, etc. At a FP+ touchpoint, it determines if you have an active FP+ window for that attraction. At a point of purchase (POP), it determines if you have a valid account for charging, etc. For a thief to do anything major, they'd need access to the database as well. Then again, if they have access to the database, they really don't need anything else. We'd all be doomed.

That said, there are some valid security concerns to be aware of, at least, that do not require direct access to Disney's Database of Everything. How concerning they are is up to you.

Note that when I say "card/band" below, I mean either the physical card or MagicBand, or a "duplicated" one gained by "skimming" the ID off yours without you knowing.

Name visibility, perhaps more of a concern with children:
- If you customize the MagicBand, you are offered the ability to put a name on the inside of the band (only up to ~11 chars I think). If someone gets hold of the band, they know your first name, or whatever it is you put on there.

- I understand that the CMs screen at the FP+ terminals also display your name - not sure if it is just first name, or full name. Not aware of any other information at this time. But someone could see it.

Purchases:
- Disney originally planned that POP touchpoint sales under $50 would not require a PIN. After initial testing, they decided to implement a PIN on all purchases. Until then, someone with your card/band off of it and duplicated it could theoretically go on a sub-$50-per-purchase spending spree on your account.

Use of entitlements:
- Of course, someone with your card/band could potentially use your FP+ experiences. They'd have to know when they are valid, and use them before you. Not certain how readily they can get that info from a kiosk or a CM.

Access to resort room:
- If they have your card/band, AND knew what resort and what room you were staying at, they could potentially access your room. No different than getting hold of a KTTW card before.

Access to more personal information:
- Speaking of kiosks, I haven't seen/heard specifically how easily information can be called up on them without providing additional authentication info (like your DMX account/password).

Active transmitter in MagicBands:
- The MagicBands have an "active RFID" transmitter, which broadcasts the ID for a bit of a longer distance than the usual passive units (which can generally only be read at a few centimeters in most cases). The battery and transmit power rates it at less than 15 feet. But this makes it easier to get that ID. What the active ID gets you is uncertain, other than certain planned but unspecified "experiences", the common example of which is that at a meet and greet the character will know your name before you approach (via the aforementioned database access, likely provided by a screen that the handler has). It is very likely this ID is separate than the passive chip IDs for security reasons.

Disney also plans to use that transmitter for crowd handling, by being able to track guests through particular choke points.

 

[Eastern]

edit: he IS a man lol

 

[preemiemama]

Use of entitlements:
- Of course, someone with your card/band could potentially use your FP+ experiences. They'd have to know when they are valid, and use them before you. Not certain how readily they can get that info from a kiosk or a CM

I can say that a couple weeks ago when we were there we had to use our PIN to redeem certain dining entitlements. There were a couple of QS and one TS that I remember, in Epcot and HS. It also seemed to occur later in the week, so maybe they are moving towards using PIN numbers to prevent someone from accessing these as well? And I can confirm that we were required to use a PIN for every purchase we made, even if it was only $1.

 

[doconeill]

I can say that a couple weeks ago when we were there we had to use our PIN to redeem certain dining entitlements. There were a couple of QS and one TS that I remember, in Epcot and HS. It also seemed to occur later in the week, so maybe they are moving towards using PIN numbers to prevent someone from accessing these as well? And I can confirm that we were required to use a PIN for every purchase we made, even if it was only $1.

These were Fastpass+ entitlements? I can see them being because they are actually purchases.

Initially, there was some confusion about whether the PIN was required on all purchases or not - some seemed to have it, some didn't, but that seemed to be some sort of conversion lag. Everything seems to be requiring it now, at least when using a touchpoint. If the CM has to swipe the card still, it does not seem to be required.

 

[Simba77]

I'm not really seeing how losing your Magicband would create any more trouble than losing your RFID KTTW card, or even the older KTTW cards with mag strip before the RFID conversions began. With any/all of those, you could access a room, charge things to the card if your credit card was linked to your room, use dining entitlements, etc. It's the same issues it's always been if you lose your ticket/card/KTTW/Magicband.

 

[doconeill]

I'm not really seeing how losing your Magicband would create any more trouble than losing your RFID KTTW card, or even the older KTTW cards with mag strip before the RFID conversions began. With any/all of those, you could access a room, charge things to the card if your credit card was linked to your room, use dining entitlements, etc. It's the same issues it's always been if you lose your ticket/card/KTTW/Magicband.

Yes, a lot of that is the same. But if you lost your KTTW card, you'd eventually know it, get the old one deactivated, and get a new one.

But in theory, it is easier to get the IDs from an RFID device without your knowledge, and "duplicate" them into another RFID device.