All The New Developments

[UNCFanatik]

If it fits your preconceived notion of how NextGen is rolling out

Very true. Regardless of how many CMs work at Disney. Just pick the one whose perspective matches your distaste and gloomy predictions. And lets minimize any CM that has positives to say about the system as being part of a "gaggle" that wears rose colored glasses.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I tend to side on what the person who actually works there says. Cheshire posted using their factual knowledge of the situation first hand. Please direct your angst at him if you have an issue with the information he has provided.

The CMs arent a monolithic group of people. I am sure if a CM came on here praising the MM/FP+ systems, they would be met with cynicism and you would quickly label them as you have done with other people that dont agree with the predictions of failure as being a part of the "gaggle" that wears rose colored glasses

Cheshire's perspective and opinion is just that. There is a fair amount of speculation in his post, not just factual knowledge. And he states the obvious...the rules of FP+ are changing. Of course they are changing and probably will continue to change because they are in the testing phase and once they roll it out, it would imagine they will continue to change because of guest feedback.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Just a reminder from one of Cheshire's own posts on another thread from 7/27:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=49094166&postcount=4

I'm low enough on the Totem Pole that I have no idea what plans are for MDE, FP+, MB, or anything related to NextGen.

 

[Simba77]

I cannot disclose my true feelings here.

I think you pretty much did

I understand frustration with an employer; I think most of us have been there.
But I'm not sure venting to your employer's patrons on a fan board is the right way to do things.

If WDW guests have first hand experiences with FP+ and NextGen, and those experiences are bad, so be it... that's how the cookie should crumble. It's just a bit too early to be calling the time of death before the system has even gotten off the ground.

And frankly, it doesn't matter to me if a system is making the life of a CM a bit more complicated during the transition. I'm sure original FP was a burden and caused confusion, requiring CMs to deal with the technical issues, Guest questions and problems, etc. But if a system turns out to be better for the guests, that's what matters. We're the ones paying the money. Time will tell if is actually better, but I don't need anyone else to tell me to hate it before it's even fully implemented.

I hope I'm not coming off as sounding harsh. That's not my intent. I'm just a little put off by the feeling that this is the airing of dirty laundry in a battle of inter-company politics, mixed with a heavy dose of personal feelings about one's employer, rather than an objective discussion of any actual issues experienced during the testing of this new technology.

 

[Simba77]

I tend to side on what the person who actually works there says. Cheshire posted using their factual knowledge of the situation first hand. Please direct your angst at him if you have an issue with the information he has provided.

I don't "side" with anyone. If I walk into a Burger King and the worker gets my order wrong, I don't side with him just because he works there and therefore somehow knows better than I do. He got my order wrong.

I didn't find much factual nor first hand information in the OP that we didn't already know. I found lots of words like "my feeling," "my guess is," and "I have a friend who..."

 

[preemiemama]

First off, he says that he is starting this thread to:

This Post/Thread is to discuss all the new developments related to admissions at WDW, popularly known as Next Generation.

Saying that his friend explains it this way is not the same as saying "I heard from a friend..."

The best explanation of the whole mess is from a friend of mine who is a very senior technical specialist in Disney's IT department. It is equated to a railroad that is in operation while they are still trying to build the locomotive.

Facts:

First of all everything is really in a testing stage. Nobody knows when everything will fully work, but my guess may be some time in 2015. Very few people know what they are testing for. Fewer people know what test results are and what they will test for next.

This one I can corroborate from when we were there a couple weeks ago and had the dining plan and an RFID KTTW card.

As there is no indication on a RFID ticket or a Magic Band what the entitlements are people have to keep careful track of their tickets.

More facts:

Disney does a lot of ticket selling through third parties, such as AAA, The Disney Store, Undercover Tourist, etc. How will these retailer be able to keep inventory control?

A few years ago they did away with wristbands for Evening EMH and a person has to show their room key for eligibility for attractions. At least the KTTW has the stay dates on it. The Magic Bands don't have any such indication. For EMH they will have to put Touch Points at every attraction which is open so they can tell if a person is legitimate. Or will they go back to wristbands?

There are lots of Security problems. However, I won't go into those as I do work at Disney and I don't want to give any wrong ideas.

I do have a feeling that within a couple of years we will be back to having turnstiles, but they will accept RFID as well as magnetic stripes and bar codes.

A minor point is that with an RFID ticket you cannot use WDW days at DLR any more, as they have no way there to find out what is on the ticket.

And the rules for FP+ seem to be changing.

And people cannot register their AP on the Disney site.

And, and, and...

[/rant]

Not sure how you can say that there is "not much factual information" in the post?

 

[Nancyg56]

I didn't find much factual nor first hand information in the OP that we didn't already know. I found lots of words like "my feeling," "my guess is," and "I have a friend who..."

No one here has any first hand knowledge in regards to the finished product. Cheshire has every right to share his concerns based on his knowledge and his interactions, just as you have teh right to question it.

His post reminded me of a rollout I participated in. The testing was horrendous and if you asked any of us how it would work when we had to use it exclusively, you would have heard concerns that mirror those Cheshire expressed. WE were front line production in a very new online banking project and we were very worried. If our technology was responsible for financial fiascos, we would be dealing with calls that make chats with guests who cannot get onto Space Mountain look like a cake walk. And initially, the testing was a mess. Our management held meetings with us throughout the testing and addressed the issues we experienced. None of us had experience in every aspect of this technology, but we did talk to one another, much like Cheshire suggested his colleagues are talking.

Right now, we are trying to learn as much as we can about a system that we may or may not need to use during vacations, but no one has anything other than "my guess is" "I have a friend who..." etc. If CM's who have any information, guests who have participated in testing, and others who have read as much as is available are ridiculed for their concerns, how can anyone here have an intelligent conversation?

I do not believe that Disney s going to release a technology that will swamp their systems, crash their fast pass machines or create chaos in stand by lines or disenfranchise the vast majority of their guests. I do believe that their testing has uncovered many areas that need to be addressed though, and that Disney does need to listen carefully to the results that CM's and guests have expressed to be problematic.

 

[Simba77]

First off, he says that he is starting this thread to:

Not sure how you can say that there is "not much factual information" in the post?

You're taking me out of context. I didn't say there wasn't much factual information. I said there wasn't much factual information we didn't already know. There are already a dozen threads discussing these same topics.

 

[AliceIn]

First off, he says that he is starting this thread to:

Not sure how you can say that there is "not much factual information" in the post?

I think you have to take any second hand information with a grain of salt. I'm a Sr. Manager within an IT specialty area at my company, and I may say that I have frustrations with an application that may have no impact on the end user. For example, I'm not happy with how the databases are set up, and maybe I have some problems with middleware that is causing my team to have to work a ton of hours and overtime fixing back-end issues. From the customer reaching my company's perspective, everything works pretty well but there are minor issues with the beta testing. From my perspective, the thing is horrible and I'm going to complain mightily.

My company has thousands of IT people working in at least 60 departments. I'm sure that Disney is far larger than we are. The people who really know all the issues and can tie everything together are the project managers and Sr. IT leaders. Everybody else only knows the general problems within their own area. Huge projects like this take a long time to get right. These customer tests are likely pilots of some module of the overall system. It's not the fully polished end result.

I am staying at one of the test resorts at the end of this month, and I'm participating in the testing. I fully understand that it may not work 100%, and I may have some inconvenience associated with that. Since this is not my first trip to Disney, and mostly likely not the last family trip we'll take there, I'm willing to accept that it could be a less than perfect experience. Each family has to make that decision for themselves and decide whether to take part or not.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Not sure how you can say that there is "not much factual information" in the post?

I said "a fair amount of speculation" not "not much factual information" and the following is speculation:

1. Nobody knows when everything will fully work, but my guess may be some time in 2015
2. Very few people know what they are testing for. Fewer people know what test results are and what they will test for next.(how would he know this information. he is speculating on who knows what and how many people are in the know)
3.How will these retailer be able to keep inventory control?
4. There are lots of Security problems (matter of opinion and speculation. Lack of knowledge of what the security department may be aware of or has in the works)
5. I do have a feeling that within a couple of years we will be back to having turnstiles, but they will accept RFID as well as magnetic stripes and bar codes.
6. For EMH they will have to put Touch Points at every attraction which is open so they can tell if a person is legitimate. Or will they go back to wristbands?

 

[Angel Ariel]

If it fits your preconceived notion of how NextGen is rolling out

Nope...i'd listen with an open mind to any CM who voiced their opinion. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still have concerns, but I'd be very interested in their viewpoint since they have more experience with the system than anyone else does right now.

 

[d1gitman]

i will reserve my judgement of FP+, MM+, etc...until it is rolled out in full and we actually have something to go on. So many people getting all haired up about something that isn't fully revealed yet.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Voicing concerns is not the same thing as "getting all haired up." most of the people here give me the impression of voicing concerns, not "the world is ending" like others have been implying.

 

[Simba77]

Nope...i'd listen with an open mind to any CM who voiced their opinion. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still have concerns, but I'd be very interested in their viewpoint since they have more experience with the system than anyone else does right now.

I adore Disney CMs. I've had almost exclusively wonderful experiences with them. But they are just like us, and often times are not privy to any more information than we are. They can't necessarily predict the future any better than we can just because they are a CM.

I'm just speaking generally here, by the way, not necessarily in the OP's case. I've seen it in other avenues of life, where an employee who has an agenda will vent to "end users" of a product. You have to wonder who they're doing it for - for the benefit of actually informing the consumer and helping them to understand, or if they just need to get things off their chest about their employer or coworkers.

I guess I just question whether this is the right venue to voice these types of things. If a CM is here to answer questions or help the public understand what potential issues they might encounter when using their Magicbands, that's one thing. When they are here to seemingly give us "The best explanation of the whole mess" and then "[/rant]" - describing the "behind the scenes" frustrations of other Disney employees... I don't know. Imagine a frustrated Apple employee going on an iPod fan forum and trashing the development headaches he's experienced with Apple's newest product. Or a baseball player going on a fan forum of his team and talking about how poorly the manager is running the team.

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe this is the venue for that. But I'm not sure I registered here to listen to disgruntled Disney CM rantings.

 

[tony609]

I know what FP+ is... What is MM+...saw this in a few posts.

 

[preemiemama]

To be fair, any discussion of this topic is going to have some amount of speculation. But a CM who has to deal with the program is going to have a more informed opinion of what is happening since he interacts with it (and the people testing it/using it) every day.

I don't think the point of his post was to enrage the masses. I think he wants to keep discussion going, and let people on the boards who count on him for information know the latest- good, bad, or otherwise. Besides, there is enough panic and questioning on many of the other posts from people not know if this will affect their upcoming vacation. A "tell me about FP+" type of thread pops up several times daily. Maybe he wanted this thread to be a place to go for information vs. posting individual questions constantly that no one can answer because the program is still being tested.

Everyone seems to have experience with some sort of change in their jobs. And most of us will agree that those changes are much harder on the employees of the company implementing the changes than with the customer/general public. I believe Cheshire Figment is entitled to share his opinion, and maybe some of this discussion will go back to the people in charge of testing to improve things before the full roll out. It would be much more effective to present some feedback in one long discussion vs. 100 different "how will it affect me" threads.

I do not think FP+ is the end of Disney as we know it, but I realistically see some issues with it. The largest being the limited number of FP if that winds up in the final rollout, particularly in Epcot where there are truly only 2 rides that need a FP. By the same token, I love the idea of having a FP for Soarin that could be scheduled around an ADR there since we eat in Epcot often during our trips.

So can we please stop the attacks on individuals and let people be free to express their knowledge and concerns in order to further the discussion about the actual topic of FP+/MM/RFID?

 

[Simba77]

I don't think the point of his post was to enrage the masses. I think he wants to keep discussion going, and let people on the boards who count on him for information know the latest- good, bad, or otherwise.

If that was his true purpose, starting his post off with:

"I cannot disclose my true feelings here. If I did I would be using language which would get me thrown off DisBoards, and I don't want to have that happen."

Continuing with:

"The best explanation of the whole mess"

And ending with:

"[/rant]"

Was probably the absolute worst way to calmly inform people about the "latest" information - good or bad. Just saying. This post sounded more like someone angry with their employer than someone who was hoping to clarify and inform (again good or bad).

 

[Angel Ariel]

I adore Disney CMs. I've had almost exclusively wonderful experiences with them. But they are just like us, and often times are not privy to any more information than we are. They can't necessarily predict the future any better than we can just because they are a CM.

I don't recall saying anything about them being able to predict the future? I said they have more experience with the system...which, as they're not just present for one test but for all of them, they do. (Not every CM, obviously, but those who are in the areas that are affected by the testing).

If I should be listening to posters who are pro-MM+ because of their single testing experience on one trip, why shouldn't I also give that same consideration to a CM who participates (on the CM side) in more than one test (whether their view is positive or negative)?

Neither a guest's viewpoint from one test, nor a CM's viewpoint from multiple tests will determine how i feel about MM+. I am withholding complete judgment until I experience it myself. Until then, I have concerns. Concerns I am willing to wait to see how they play out, but concerns nonetheless.

If a CM, though, were to respond with positive interactions regarding MM+ i would take that into account with my own concerns and be open minded about what they had to say.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So can we please stop the attacks on individuals and let people be free to express their knowledge and concerns in order to further the discussion about the actual topic of FP+/MM/RFID?

amen

 

[Violet Parr]

(With all due respect to Cheshire Figment, who is a wonderful asset to these boards.)

I'm placing myself at risk of getting pegged as part of the rose-colored gaggle, but I have to say, for a place that has a whole section of a park called Innoventions, an entire area called Tomorrowland, an entire area called Future World, an attraction called Carousel of Progress, I'm just surprised that people are surprised and dismayed that Disney is attempting to invent something. It's not Status Quo Land.

I have a contact in a very innovative consulting company that is assisting Disney with this massive project. yes, there are bugs and kinks and growing pains, and those might be frustrating, but if you'll recall the part of Carousel of Progress where the family gets electricity/electric lighting and there are cords and cables everywhere...well, that's how progress works. You can't make real progress until someone attempts to do something so crazy, it just might work. Also, remember that some of the ideas in the last scene of Carousel of Progress turned out to not work. (Virtual reality didn't really pan out, and the voice-activated oven was a disaster.) This might be a disaster. It's just far, far too early to tell and declare the end of WDW as we know it.

It's also important to remember that most of us are Disney nerds who do not represent the average Disney vacationer. Most people have absolutely no clue that this is all going on, and most people have nothing to compare the new turnstiles to. It doesn't seem to me to be a PR nightmare that others think it is.

Massive, huge systems such as these aren't built overnight, and unfortunately, they can't be perfected behind closed doors and then suddenly released. This is one of the most complex software builds I have ever seen. It involves so many different kinds of technology, it is incredible.

All I'm saying is, the time for panic has not yet arrived, IMO.

VP