All FP machines to be removed from Animal Kingdom by next week and....

[MakiraMarlena]

Hasn't it always been the case that the ultimate goal at WDW was to eventually remove all of the paper Fastpass machines? Why is anyone surprised that they're going to start doing it?

Haven't seen anything about 60 + 10 for anybody (like it's 180 + 10 for resort guests to make restaurant reservations)

 

[Shaden]

And it's completely within the realm of possibility that people will be locked out of FP+ even before their 60 days comes around. If somebody knows, is it 60+10 days that one can make FP+ appointments? I cannot find it anywhere on the WDW website. If it is 60+10, then during busy times of the year, say Christmas, everyone coming in on Dec. 20th could make appointments out until Dec. 30th. It happens now with popular ADRs and I see no reason that it couldn't happen for TSMM, RnR, Soarin, and Test Track.

Indeed, well said. Of course, if its NOT 60 + 10. That means that for my next trip in May which is 15 days long, I will have to get on my computer and try to book my FPs every single fricken day for two weeks. Which is going to annoy me to no end.

 

[btk2333]

I didn't say it would RUIN RD. I just said that RD would be less effective.

Currently, those that don't want to wake up early don't have any real incentive to do so because they could get a FP for TT or Soarin' when they got to the park. But, if they have a scheduled FP for early in the morning because that's the only one available, they have significant incentive to get there early.

We all know that crowds get a bump in the middle of the day because of the late arrivals. Now, that bump will be smoothed out and shifted toward the morning. The total number of people in the park will be the same, so the midday crowds will be less pronounced, but at the expense of more people there earlier.

That may not be the case for DHS and TSMM, though. People already stampede for that. FP+ won't make the situation BETTER, though; it will just be different.

Soarin and TT regularly ran out of FPs by noon even with the old system. There is significant incentive to get there for RD under the old system. I will be very surprised if any significant shift of people's times of touring occur. However, if they do that has to result in lines being lower later in the day (since most people can't do 12 hour touring days!)

 

[btk2333]

Or if Disney manages to get the word out about this "wonderful test!" maybe park numbers will be low that day because people don't want to be guinea pigs. Although then Disney will be able to say it all went off without a hitch! No screaming mobs at kiosks! Job well done!

Gonna get interesting real quick.

Most people will have no idea what is occurring at AK that day- sometimes I think people on these boards take for granted the amount of knowledge that regular posters here have and assume that all other park guests have the same amount of initiative/intent to research WDW

 

[lugnut33]

And for those who think standby lines will have to get shorter, let's see what Disney says:

We do not anticipate that the attraction standby queues will be any longer than they were before FastPass+ service.

In addition, at select attractions—such as The Haunted Mansion or The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh—we have created fun, interactive experiences for you to enjoy in the standby queues. We’ve tried to make the queue experience almost as much fun as the ride itself!

Hmmm, it doesn't say they will be longer, but it doesn't say they will be shorter. Although the following paragraph certainly indicates what they are thinking.

 

[amylevan]

Haven't seen anything about 60 + 10 for anybody (like it's 180 + 10 for resort guests to make restaurant reservations)

Unless I had some sort of fluke in the extremely well written MDE program, I was able to make FP+ reservations for my entire trip beginning with 60 days from arrival. So, yes it was 60+10 for me for my late January visit.

 

[Silock]

Soarin and TT regularly ran out of FPs by noon even with the old system. There is significant incentive to get there for RD under the old system. I will be very surprised if any significant shift of people's times of touring occur. However, if they do that has to result in lines being lower later in the day (since most people can't do 12 hour touring days!)

I'd say there's less incentive with the old system than if you have a scheduled FP+ under the new system because there's still a chance that you could get one, OR you could FP something else. The new system is essentially limiting you to one FP choice (because the other tiers don't actually NEED FPs), so if you blow it, that's it. Too bad.

Not to mention that under the old system, if someone didn't show up and grab a FP, someone else could get it. Under the new system, it's going to hold your reserved spot whether you show up or not and no one else can use it should you decide to sleep in. That's tangential to your point, but something that irritates me, anyway

 

[btk2333]

And some people think Disney can do no wrong!

Round and round we go, Jack! - Ben Stiller, "Meet the Parents"

Touche salesman

Although I can point out many things I think Disney has messed up- I just refuse to put MBs and FP+ in that category especially before its even been completely rolled out.

I admit I have a skewed opinion because I"ve used the system three times along the testing process (June, November, and December) and had very good experiences each time.

 

[Silock]

I just refuse to put MBs and FP+ in that category especially before its even been completely rolled out.

That's totally fair, and honestly, it's needed to counterbalance the opinions of people like myself. Although, I don't think many people care about the MB. That's fine. It's the FP+ we have issues with.

I suspect the eventual reality will be somewhere in between the two camps of "It's going to be amazing!" and "It's going to ruin everything!"

I'm still leaning very much toward the latter camp simply because I'm not an optimist when it comes to giant corporations.

 

[btk2333]

I'd say there's less incentive with the old system than if you have a scheduled FP+ under the new system because there's still a chance that you could get one, OR you could FP something else. The new system is essentially limiting you to one FP choice (because the other tiers don't actually NEED FPs), so if you blow it, that's it. Too bad.

Not to mention that under the old system, if someone didn't show up and grab a FP, someone else could get it. Under the new system, it's going to hold your reserved spot whether you show up or not and no one else can use it should you decide to sleep in. That's tangential to your point, but something that irritates me, anyway

You're right I understand you logic- We've used RD for each of three MB trips. We usually RD one park and have our FP+ at another park. I'm saying that the majority of park guests won't understand/ have interest in the benefits of RD (they want to sleep in on their vacations, all the same arguments you hear in any thread about RD). Also, think about how many people don't understand the current FP system (they think you have to pay for it etc). I just think you're putting a lot of faith in people (the majority of whom have way less information than those of us on the boards here) to suddenly become efficient vacation goers.

Strictly speaking the new system won't hold the reserved spot- if you don't show up they will take an extra person from the standby line, it's not like they're going to run the ride empty for you

 

[Silock]

You're right I understand you logic- We've used RD for each of three MB trips. We usually RD one park and have our FP+ at another park. I'm saying that the majority of park guests won't understand/ have interest in the benefits of RD (they want to sleep in on their vacations, all the same arguments you hear in any thread about RD). Also, think about how many people don't understand the current FP system (they think you have to pay for it etc). I just think you're putting a lot of faith in people (the majority of whom have way less information than those of us on the boards here) to suddenly become efficient vacation goers.

People didn't understand FP- before because Disney didn't have some big PR push to get people to understand it. They are doing it with FP+. I think a LOT more people are going to understand it when compared to the old system.

Strictly speaking the new system won't hold the reserved spot- if you don't show up they will take an extra person from the standby line, it's not like they're going to run the ride empty for you

True, but I was speaking more to the FP slot. If that FP+ slot is taken, I'm not likely to be in that line, or even in that area of the park. When the SB lines move at a different rate than advertised, not only is that counter to what Disney wants to do with regard to staffing and maximizing capacity, but it undercuts the argument that some are making that cutting down on one family's multiple FPs for a headliner allows another family to ride that otherwise would not have (because it could be that same family just riding it SB). So, it's not a waste of a ride spot, but it is absolutely a waste of an exceedingly valuable FP slot.

EDIT: Also, some of the rides have completely separate ride queues for SB and FP+, so some rides could actually end up wasting capacity.

 

[Sparkly]

On that I think we can all agree!

Indeed. I feel sorry for the Cast Members dealing with the resulting mess. They'll need a holiday after this!

 

[btk2333]

People didn't understand FP- before because Disney didn't have some big PR push to get people to understand it. They are doing it with FP+. I think a LOT more people are going to understand it when compared to the old system.

I don't know I sure seem to remember lots of advertisements for FP when it first came out- and it's been part of WDW TV for as many years as I can remember

True, but I was speaking more to the FP slot. If that FP+ slot is taken, I'm not likely to be in that line, or even in that area of the park. When the SB lines move at a different rate than advertised, not only is that counter to what Disney wants to do with regard to staffing and maximizing capacity, but it undercuts the argument that some are making that cutting down on one family's multiple FPs for a headliner allows another family to ride that otherwise would not have (because it could be that same family just riding it SB). So, it's not a waste of a ride spot, but it is absolutely a waste of an exceedingly valuable FP slot.

EDIT: Also, some of the rides have completely separate ride queues for SB and FP+, so some rides could actually end up wasting capacity.

But your argument is that people AREN'T going to miss their FP window- regardless of if it is at 8:00 AM or 8:00 PM, so it shouldn't be an issue here anyway right?

 

[o0quirkygirl0o]

If I worked at Animal Kingdom right now I would just want to go hide somewhere. I would not want to be on the front lines with this roll out.

When we were at Disney in October the CMs seemed very stressed about the scanning process. I think the must be under an extraordinary amount of pressure in an already stressful situation.

 

[magicbob]

Not to mention that under the old system, if someone didn't show up and grab a FP, someone else could get it. Under the new system, it's going to hold your reserved spot whether you show up or not and no one else can use it should you decide to sleep in. That's tangential to your point, but something that irritates me, anyway

Strictly speaking the new system won't hold the reserved spot- if you don't show up they will take an extra person from the standby line, it's not like they're going to run the ride empty for you

True, but I was speaking more to the FP slot. If that FP+ slot is taken, I'm not likely to be in that line, or even in that area of the park. When the SB lines move at a different rate than advertised, not only is that counter to what Disney wants to do with regard to staffing and maximizing capacity, but it undercuts the argument that some are making that cutting down on one family's multiple FPs for a headliner allows another family to ride that otherwise would not have (because it could be that same family just riding it SB). So, it's not a waste of a ride spot, but it is absolutely a waste of an exceedingly valuable FP slot.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier, but I think you expressed it much more clearly. Because of the rationing of FP+ slots (and lets not kid ourselves... there's no way to get around the fact that it IS rationing), someone in the standby line will save maybe 30 seconds or a minute if someone doesn't show up to use their FP+. But if they had been able to get that FP+ slot, they would have saved anywhere from 20-120 minutes.

The argument could be made that this was true with FP- (and I will concede that point). However, with FP- the individual pulling the FP was actually AT the park and I contend was much more likely to follow through on showing up. When FP+ is heavily marketed to the masses, a lot of people will go ahead and take those FP+ slots ahead of time, but they have less "investment" in actually showing up for it.

And if I understood what I read on a different thread correctly, not showing up for a FP+ time does not forfeit that (for lack of a better word) entitlement. You can re-schedule for something else (subject to availability, of course) after the fact. To me this seems almost like double dipping. That person took up a FP+ slot they didn't use (and no one else got to use because of that) and they also get to re-schedule after they've missed their appointment. Seems like a no-show should be considered a used FP+ slot. You took up that FP+ time slot whether you were there to ride or not.

If someone figures out they can't make it and takes the time to re-schedule ahead of time then, theoretically, that FP+ slot would go back into the pool and someone could snatch it up, even if it's at the last minute. But after the time for that FP slot has already passed it has been wasted... it can't go back into the pool to be used by someone else. Yet the person who missed their time gets an additional FP+ opportunity? If the perception is that you can just schedule another if you miss your time (even if that's somewhat of a misperception based on limited availability), it further disincentivizes people from taking the time to "release" their FP+ early so someone else can use that slot.

And let's not forget, under the old system, if I realize I'm not going to make it to my FP, I can give the tickets to someone else, who will get the full benefit of them. But I can't give my wrist band to a stranger and leave the park without it. So there's no way for someone else to use that slot unless I take the time to go online and cancel/re-schedule.

But at least someone in standby only has to wait 119 minutes for that headliner instead of 120, right?

 

[Shaden]

Unless I had some sort of fluke in the extremely well written MDE program, I was able to make FP+ reservations for my entire trip beginning with 60 days from arrival. So, yes it was 60+10 for me for my late January visit.

THIS, is very very interesting.

If true, this could dramatically change the outlook on FP+.

As right now many people are counting on being able to go on at day 60 and scoop up what they want, if other people have had a 10 day head start, hrm ....

I mean, I would think you would still be able to get your FPs but perhaps not the ones you want at the times you want for the first half of your trip, depending on length. If you trip is short, well, you might actually be out of luck in that case.

 

[Silock]

But your argument is that people AREN'T going to miss their FP window- regardless of if it is at 8:00 AM or 8:00 PM, so it shouldn't be an issue here anyway right?

The argument is that either way, it's a vastly inferior system.

 

[Shaden]

You're right I understand you logic- We've used RD for each of three MB trips. We usually RD one park and have our FP+ at another park. I'm saying that the majority of park guests won't understand/ have interest in the benefits of RD (they want to sleep in on their vacations, all the same arguments you hear in any thread about RD). Also, think about how many people don't understand the current FP system (they think you have to pay for it etc). I just think you're putting a lot of faith in people (the majority of whom have way less information than those of us on the boards here) to suddenly become efficient vacation goers.

What is interesting about this thought is that if you are correct, there is even more reason to be angry at Disney about this whole mess. If you are correct, then the system is a complete failure, and they will have wasted hundreds, of millions of dollars, and created a considerable amount of turmoil and uncertainty, for ... nothing ...

I don't have faith in people per se (actually I do, but that's another story) ... I have faith in Disney marketing, incentivization, etc.

 

[ArwenMarie]

THIS, is very very interesting.

If true, this could dramatically change the outlook on FP+.

As right now many people are counting on being able to go on at day 60 and scoop up what they want, if other people have had a 10 day head start, hrm ....

I mean, I would think you would still be able to get your FPs but perhaps not the ones you want at the times you want for the first half of your trip, depending on length. If you trip is short, well, you might actually be out of luck in that case.

It's kind of like ADRs...you have a much better chance of getting the tough ones towards the end of your trip.

I still think the booking window, whatever it ends up being, is going to end up being the onsite perk.

 

[wisblue]

If someone figures out they can't make it and takes the time to re-schedule ahead of time then, theoretically, that FP+ slot would go back into the pool and someone could snatch it up, even if it's at the last minute. But after the time for that FP slot has already passed it has been wasted... it can't go back into the pool to be used by someone else.

Your whole discussion doesn't take into account the possibility (and I would say the likelihood) that Disney will overbook FP+ slots in anticipation of a certain percentage of guests not using their reservations. With all of the data they will be able to collect, they should have a pretty good idea of what percentage of reservations will not show.

I would compare it to a selective university that offers acceptances to roughly twice as many students as it has room for. They know from their experience that their "yield" (as the admissions offices call it) will be a certain percentage. If they fall short of the number of students they want they can admit some more off the waiting list.

But, if someone doesn't show for a FP, they shouldn't feel like they have deprived someone else of getting one. They are just one of the anonymous group of people Disney knew wouldn't show. Just like someone that gets accepted from an exclusive college, but then decides to go elsewhere, shouldn't feel like they have taken a spot from someone else.

As you noted, there were no shows with paper FPs too. That included people who left the park before their time came up. people who weren't in the right part of the park or decided not to ride, and those who engaged in "Fast Pass collecting" (a practice that will now end).

That likelihood of overbooking should mean that the actual number of reservations accepted will be greater than the theoretical FP capacity for the attraction.