All FP machines to be removed from Animal Kingdom by next week and....

[mom2rtk]

Disney probably wants broader satisfaction. They want a larger proportion of their guests to benefit from a few shorter lines. Disney knows exactly how many rides will make an average guest happy (I think the number is around 9 for an average guest). If people now are getting 10 fast passes a day they may be riding 20 rides while another family is riding 5 The family riding all the rides is happy but the other family isn't. From a purely numbers standpoint Disney wants both families happy and is trying to redistribute fast passes so both families are happy. They are gambling that the family who used to ride 20 will be happy riding 10. It makes sense for Disney to think like this.

In my opinion there will always be certain families that learn the system in advance and do their research (those of us on the dis and other boards) we may need to slightly tweak our torun but we will maximize our value and number of rides in a different way. I am not concerned about fpp and think it has a ton of potential (I've done three trips with mbs so far and had no problems whatsoever). If we have to do things slightly differently that's ok - we will still have great vacations.

If that was the issue, Disney could have easily stretched the time it takes to pull a second legacy fastpass to 3 hours. Or limited each ticket to only 5 per day. Or one per attraction. All without overhauling the entire system in this manner.

I imagine even Disney's IT systems could have accomplished this quickly and glitch-free.

 

[Sammie]

Did you read the reports of off site guests showing up and all headliners were gone by 10:00 am. Even during busiest summer times I could pull headliners much later in the day. They didn't have the same access. It didn't (isn't) working well for them at all. They are getting the leftovers. It gets worse when it gets more crowded of course.

With only 8000 Kilimanjaro safaris fastpasses available, one can see how the on site guests could eat them up before the park even opens.

I have had the happen to me for years with legacy Fastpass, so I don't see where that is that much different. Could that also be attributed to some of those people who were double dipping, and triple dipping etc. I know when we were testing we are asked not to use legacy only Fastpass+, and we did as asked. But did other testing do both.

I am not sure we can lay all the blame on Disney.

 

[btk2333]

If that was the issue, Disney could have easily stretched the time it takes to pull a second legacy fastpass to 3 hours. Or limited each ticket to only 5 per day. Or one per attraction. All without overhauling the entire system in this manner.

I imagine even Disney's IT systems could have accomplished this quickly and glitch-free.

Well I don't think that's the ONLY reason they're doing what they're doing just a contributing factor- the new system gives them tons of data to mull through. I for one am excited about the possibilities this brings for my future trips to WDW.

Change brings new opportunities for touring strategies and I am excited to be learning how my next ten years of Disney vacations will evolve!

 

[DebbieB]

Whose freaking out? Most posts are reflective and analyzing. What ifs.

And if it is one day... It is only time before it goes everyday. I don't understand that line of reasoning. Disney isn't doing this stuff just to mess with people. It's not limited time magic. December 18th FP Kiosk day. Go crazy folks.

The one I'm referring to is post #340. She is regretting planning her trip over Christmas because of the fastpass machines being removed, she wishes she could cancel it but it's too late. It's not a fact that the fastpass machines at AK are going away over Christmas as was posted in this thread. It's rumor, very likely a false rumor.

Do I believe that legacy fastpass machines will go away? Yes. Do I believe the current testing with 3 FP+ only is the final product? No, I'll wait and see on that.

 

[bcrook]

I have had the happen to me for years with legacy Fastpass, so I don't see where that is that much different. Could that also be attributed to some of those people who were double dipping, and triple dipping etc. I know when we were testing we are asked not to use legacy only Fastpass+, and we did.

I am not sure we can lay all the blame on Disney.

I truly understand your positive attitude about these changes. I really get it that you don't use that many fastpasses and being able to get three in advance will ALWAYS be better for you than the legacy.

But the numbers don't lie. There are only 8000 fastpasses for Kilimanjaro Safaris. Every single person had the opportunity to show up at the park to get one. Now only some people can actually have the opportunity to get one (less than half). I realize you didn't get one if you showed up at 4:00 to the park, but you could have got one with legacy if you showed up at 11:00. There are people entering the park early and by the time they get to the fastpasses they are gone. As someone described earlier in this thread or others.

The fact that the system is better for you, doesn't mean that it is more fair. It is less equitable.

The double and triple dipping didn't have much to do with headliners disappearing, because they are booked in advance of the park opening. No time for double and triple booking (or minimal at best).

 

[btk2333]

The fact that the system is better for you, doesn't mean that it is more fair.

Can I turn this quote around and say- "The fact that the system is worse for you doesn't mean that it is not fair"?

It's just changing the time you have to get in line for those desired fast passes. Additionally, now you probably can't use FP to ride Soarin' three times in a day. Instead those second two rides on Soarin' will go to someone else who is booking at 60 days in advance. Now instead of your family riding Soarin 3x, 3 families ride Soarin' once.

Is that more fair? I don't know and I don't really think any system is "more fair" than the other; however, if someone wanted to make an argument that it is more fair I could be persuaded

 

[momof2n2]

Well, TBH, there might have been SOME freaking out on my part early on. But I'm better now.

You're allowed.

I'm 150ish days out and I have freak-out moments.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Now instead of your family riding Soarin 3x, 3 families ride Soarin' once.

Is that more fair?

Yes, that is the definition of more fair.

 

[btk2333]

Yes, that is the definition of more fair.

Thank you for explicitly stating my point

 

[clsteve]

Rd is already a huge priority and still a very small number of people take advantage of it. I just don't see this changing. A large proportion of the visitors to the parks just don't want to get up early on vacation or can't get their family out of bed etc.

You see it all the time- people intend to get to morning emh parks during the emh hour however they don't actually get in the bus line until much later. I just don't see rd getting much busier with fpp.

That's how it used to be, and I hope you're right and it stays that way since we're dedicated RD'ers.

However, we know FP+ reservations are starting at RD - so those that have them will be there.

We know all the park hoppers with afternoon ressies in another park will be there since you can't split FP's between parks

If they hold back ANY FP's for same day in park reservations, anyone who didn't have the ability to make reservations (and there are many reasons for that) will be there to grab what's available.

We also know that everyone is going to want later FP+ reservations. Use this board as an example- park hoppers, sleep in and order extra bacon, off-site, AP'ers living more than an hour away, tour groups, etc.

Basically, the dynamic is changing, and will really change once Disney puts the muscle behind the marketing. Our FP experience has been based on a smaller percentage of Disney guests understanding it or even knowing about it.

Anytime you turn something into a commodity that has a fixed supply and market it do a larger audience - funky things happen...

 

[bcrook]

I'm all in favor of using math because I like to do it myself. But, I also like to make sure that those numbers are accurate and being applied correctly. So, a few questions and comments for you:

3. I would like to know where you are getting your ride and FP capacity numbers and how you are calculating them. I have been trying to figure ride capacity numbers using some information on Touring Plans and, using that, I estimated a total ride capacity for EE of 18,000 in 12 hours. The Hub has said that they generally figure 4 FP riders for each 1 standby, so if FP accounts for 80% of capacity, the total FP capacity would be a little higher than 11,500 in 12 hours. (Because DAK is generally open from 8AM-9PM over Christmas this year, that would add still a little more capacity).

Here is a link to what I have compiled about ride capacity. If you search enough online, you can find a lot solid information. Even if they aren't exact, they are close.

That data is a compilation of a lot of contributors (especially Rileygirl and Hopemax).

I don't mind the feedback (best to pm me though) I don't want to shanghai a thread, and I wouldn't know where to start a new thread.

 

[momof2n2]

Yes, that is the definition of more fair.

Fair is super subjective to both "sides."



I prefer to qualify all of this as a "game changer." And some "players" (visitors) didn't get information in a timely enough manner to properly determine if they still wanted to play the "Disney Game."



(Excuse the quotations. I'm trying to emphasize certain terms and all caps would seem like yelling. )


My family doesn't enjoy themselves if they can't ride Soarin' multiple times. I still have time to decide what we'll do. Folks who left for vacation today may feel the rug pulled out from under them.

 

[btk2333]

That's how it used to be, and I hope you're right and it stays that way since we're dedicated RD'ers.

However, we know FP+ reservations are starting at RD - so those that have them will be there.

We know all the park hoppers with afternoon ressies in another park will be there since you can't split FP's between parks

If they hold back ANY FP's for same day in park reservations, anyone who didn't have the ability to make reservations (and there are many reasons for that) will be there to grab what's available.

We also know that everyone is going to want later FP+ reservations. Use this board as an example- park hoppers, sleep in and order extra bacon, off-site, AP'ers living more than an hour away, tour groups, etc.

Basically, the dynamic is changing, and will really change once Disney puts the muscle behind the marketing. Our FP experience has been based on a smaller percentage of Disney guests understanding it or even knowing about it.

Anytime you turn something into a commodity that has a fixed supply and market it do a larger audience - funky things happen...

You're making a lot of assumptions that people will do their homework before going on a vacation. Most of these things are common knowledge on the boards; however, they are not common knowledge to the average park goer. It take a lot for people to decide to get in line for a bus at 7:30 to get to a 9:00 park opening.

I understand your concerns I just don't see the majority of guests all of a sudden becoming super efficient tourers. I think it is more likely that RD becomes less crowded as people say "well we don't have to go at RD anymore because we have these three rides already booked in advance."

We will have to see how things play out- the masses at WDW haven't adopted RD and efficient Touring Plans yet, we will see if FP+ is what makes them change their ways.

 

[bcrook]

Can I turn this quote around and say- "The fact that the system is worse for you doesn't mean that it is not fair"?

It's just changing the time you have to get in line for those desired fast passes. Additionally, now you probably can't use FP to ride Soarin' three times in a day. Instead those second two rides on Soarin' will go to someone else who is booking at 60 days in advance. Now instead of your family riding Soarin 3x, 3 families ride Soarin' once.

Is that more fair? I don't know and I don't really think any system is "more fair" than the other; however, if someone wanted to make an argument that it is more fair I could be persuaded

I am truly not looking at this from my standpoint. I simply don't like it because it made me crazy for a solid month booking rides online and then I had the hassle of linking all my friends and family and then we got to the parks we felt locked in, and nobody would give up their freaking FP+.

But right now it is NOT fair for off site guests (50%) of the visitors to Disney World. It is really that simple. That is all I am talking about.

 

[rebbyparker]

That's how it used to be, and I hope you're right and it stays that way since we're dedicated RD'ers.

However, we know FP+ reservations are starting at RD - so those that have them will be there.

We know all the park hoppers with afternoon ressies in another park will be there since you can't split FP's between parks

If they hold back ANY FP's for same day in park reservations, anyone who didn't have the ability to make reservations (and there are many reasons for that) will be there to grab what's available.

We also know that everyone is going to want later FP+ reservations. Use this board as an example- park hoppers, sleep in and order extra bacon, off-site, AP'ers living more than an hour away, tour groups, etc.

Basically, the dynamic is changing, and will really change once Disney puts the muscle behind the marketing. Our FP experience has been based on a smaller percentage of Disney guests understanding it or even knowing about it.

Anytime you turn something into a commodity that has a fixed supply and market it do a larger audience - funky things happen...

The next year at Disney should be very interesting.

 

[wisblue]

Here is a link to what I have compiled about ride capacity. If you search enough online, you can find a lot solid information. Even if they aren't exact, they are close.

That data is a compilation of a lot of contributors (especially Rileygirl and Hopemax).

I don't mind the feedback (best to pm me though) I don't want to shanghai a thread, and I wouldn't know where to start a new thread.

Thanks for the link. I was asking about something like this a few days ago.

 

[bcrook]

You're making a lot of assumptions that people will do their homework before going on a vacation. Most of these things are common knowledge on the boards; however, they are not common knowledge to the average park goer. It take a lot for people to decide to get in line for a bus at 7:30 to get to a 9:00 park opening.

I understand your concerns I just don't see the majority of guests all of a sudden becoming super efficient tourers. I think it is more likely that RD becomes less crowded as people say "well we don't have to go at RD anymore because we have these three rides already booked in advance."

We will have to see how things play out- the masses at WDW haven't adopted RD and efficient Touring Plans yet, we will see if FP+ is what makes them change their ways.

Disney is betting 1.5 Billion Dollars on the hunch that they are going to get everyone hooked on the FP+. I think you might be selling them short.

 

[Silock]

Just because something is redistributed doesn't mean it's necessarily fair.

 

[btk2333]

Disney is betting 1.5 Billion Dollars on the hunch that they are going to get everyone hooked on the FP+. I think you might be selling them short.

Oh I have no doubt they are fully committed to FP+ and will sell it accordingly. I do not think that Disney is committed to convincing everyone that Rope Drop is the way to tour. I think it would be a hard sell to get people who up until now have avoided RD to all of a sudden change their touring and become RDs. That's my point.

 

[btk2333]

Just because something is redistributed doesn't mean it's necessarily fair.

That is definitely true. I just don't see anything inherently unfair about FP+ once it is opened up to everyone. Everyone will have the same opportunity to book three rides (probably tiered) you just won't have to run to each FP machine to do it, you can do it from your bed before you leave.

Just because something is changed does not mean it is now suddenly unfair