Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[pahoben]

Again - movie set. They're supposed to have someone on set at all times whose sole responsibility is to prep the firearms for the particular scene. But yeah - a lot of that broke down.

You might send Ray Liotta a note explaining its a waste of time for him to check guns he is handed on set because someone else is responsible. Also send a note to Screen Actors Guild explaining their guidelines for the actor to always check the gun, in conjunction with the armorer, to ensure it is unloaded is not necessary.

 

[lifesavacation]

In a previous interview Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said she was afraid of loading blanks.
Why is someone who is afraid of anything related to firearms an armorist?

That whole production sounds like one big mess.


Because we are talking about firearms safety not someone getting you your donut and coffee.

The safe handling and the responsibility of using a gun should never be passed to someone else, or assumed it was done by someone else. Anyone who touches that gun has a responsibility to make sure it is safe to do so, ending with the person who is using it, in this case Alec Baldwin.
COVID-19, movie sets, actors who don't do anything for themselves, none of that matters when we are talking about using firearms. I don't understand why people can't grasp that concept.

I read that too and it confused me because I can’t make sense of it. Is it possible she had to load (make) the blanks for the movie? That’s the only thing I can think of, aside from a fear that blanks can kill too.

 

[bcla]

You might send Ray Liotta a note explaining its a waste of time for him to check guns he is handed on set because someone else is responsible. Also send a note to Screen Actors Guild explaining their guidelines for the actor to always check the gun, in conjunction with the armorer, to ensure it is unloaded is not necessary.

Yeah - I get that best practices and even the SAG guidelines weren't followed. But again, there are a lot things in entertainment where safety checks are primarily delegated to someone else. Someone else is given responsibility for the safety of the rigging, for the safety of the building, or the overall safety of the set.

And at this point it's going to be likely that real guns will be used far less often in entertainment, and when they're used there's going to likely be a lot more checks. But that's moving forward.

 

[Sinder]

I read that too and it confused me because I can’t make sense of it. Is it possible she had to load (make) the blanks for the movie? That’s the only thing I can think of, aside from a fear that blanks can kill too.

Apparently in the interview she said loading blanks into the gun was the scariest thing to do because she didn't know how to do it and asked her father for help. This was for the first movie she worked on (I think). Rust was the second movie she had worked on.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

While SAG and IATSE are conducting their own investigations, this also boils down to the fact that there were non union workers on set at that time. I’m not saying non union doesn’t know what they are doing, but the switch over during the day mixed with inexperience most likely caused this issue. The armorer might not have known the crew member was non union. And regardless they all have to attend training.

 

[bcla]

The whole point of involuntary manslaughter is you didn't mean it and you never meant to do it and you'd take it back in an instant if you could, but your colossally stupid and careless actions caused an awful unmeant action to happen anyway...

The question of what's reasonable is going to be asked when a prosecutor or grand jury decides what should be done. When a supposedly professional armorer is on set and the AD declared the gun to be "cold" that will obviously be a mitigating factor. But if anything, the armorer may be in the most criminal legal trouble if she knew that there were crew members using these guns to pop off in the distance with live ammo, and that a gun would be left on a cart with live ammo.

 

[bcla]

While SAG and IATSE are conducting their own investigations, this also boils down to the fact that there were non union workers on set at that time. I’m not saying non union doesn’t know what they are doing, but the switch over during the day mixed with inexperience most likely caused this issue. The armorer might not have known the crew member was non union. And regardless they all have to attend training.

Reports are that the gun was specifically placed on the cart by the armorer for use in the scene. So there's nothing between the crew (union or not) and the transfer to the gun to Alec Baldwin.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

Reports are that the gun was specifically placed on the cart by the armorer for use in the scene. So there's nothing between the crew (union or not) and the transfer to the gun to Alec Baldwin.

Ding dang. Hadn’t heard that update yet.

 

[Skywalker]

This is where we're gonna get into problems...if Baldwin gets a pass on getting charged and going through the legal process, why shouldn't everyone else when we're supposed to have equal protection under the law? If we won't enforce some laws against the rich and famous, we should take those laws off the books entirely.

Aka, in New Mexico, if Alec Baldwin won't get charged with involuntary manslaughter for performing a lawful act without exercising “due caution and circumspection” then NO ONE in New Mexico should get charged for doing the same. So, carrying a weapon into a store and accidentally discharging it and hitting a mom b/c you were twirling it on your finger or pulling in and out of your holster like a badass b/c you thought you brought it empty should just be labeled a "dumb accident" b/c it is, but with no charges b/c it's lawful to carry and if we let Baldwin not be charged, we're not concerned how careless and stupid you are if you didn't mean to hurt someone...

The whole point of involuntary manslaughter is you didn't mean it and you never meant to do it and you'd take it back in an instant if you could, but your colossally stupid and careless actions caused an awful unmeant action to happen anyway...

Your fictional "badass" scenario is not remotely what happened though.

He obviously placed too much trust and faith in the armorer and the assistant director, to the point it didn't seem to occur to him that the gun was loaded.

As far as no one in New Mexico should ever get charged with involuntary manslaughter - it would be hard to find a comparable situation to weigh it against, unless you can find a case where the accused who accidentally shot someone, actually had a hired crew with them at the time to ensure gun safety. I would think that would at least be a mitigating factor in their defence.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I heard some channel report that some of the crew (not identified), were shooting some of the guns at cans in open area I am assuming after filming or some form of downtime.
If Alec was one of them and knew at one point gun was being used in such way. Would that raise possibility of manslaughter?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Michael Massee was not criminally charged for pulling the trigger and shooting Brandon Lee. I guess the question could be whether since the Lee incident the duty of care on a movie set (for performers using a weapon) has changed. Does the performer actually have a duty under law to check the firearm again if they have been told by crew it is ready for the performance?

They did have a set armorer whose job it was to make sure the firearms they used during filming were safe. She had placed this gun along with several others on a cart. An assistant director is the one who took the weapon off the cart and handed it over to Baldwin. Not entirely sure why the armorer herself didn't do that, or why she wasn't there to point out which guns could be used for which scenes, or why she wasn't watching the firearms, all of which is her job. Allowing the crew to use the set firearms recreationally should absolutely not happen. There were a lot of problems on this set.

"Rust" has five other named producers besides Baldwin. I understand Mr. Baldwin is disliked by quite a lot of people and probably for good reason. But they need to charge them all if they are going to criminally charge a producer.

 

[bcla]

Ding dang. Hadn’t heard that update yet.

It's been out for a few days, but here's one explanation.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ar...or-focus-movie-set-shooting-probe-2021-10-24/​

Gutierrez, 24, was working as the armorer, or person in charge of firearms on the set. According to an affidavit filed by a Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office detective, she prepared three prop guns and placed them on a cart outside the building where rehearsals were taking place.​

********​

Assistant director Halls, 62, grabbed one of the prop guns off the cart and took it inside to Baldwin, yelling "cold gun", which on movie sets means the gun is not loaded with ammunition, including blanks, according to the detective's affidavit.​

​

He did not know live rounds were in the prop gun when he handed it to the actor, the affidavit said.​

 

[bcla]

I read that too and it confused me because I can’t make sense of it. Is it possible she had to load (make) the blanks for the movie? That’s the only thing I can think of, aside from a fear that blanks can kill too.

I supposed it's possible for an armorer to make a "hand load" (where one prepares the powder) and be worried about the quality of the assembly. But for someone who has allegedly handled guns for over a decade (since she went shooting with her dad) a professionally loaded blank shouldn't be any different than regular ammo. Perhaps she was just nervous that she might make a mistake or that someone might be injured by it.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Michael Massee was not criminally charged for pulling the trigger and shooting Brandon Lee. I guess the question could be whether since the Lee incident the duty of care on a movie set (for performers using a weapon) has changed. Does the performer actually have a duty under law to check the firearm again if they have been told by crew it is ready for the performance?

They did have a set armorer whose job it was to make sure the firearms they used during filming were safe. She had placed this gun along with several others on a cart. An assistant director is the one who took the weapon off the cart and handed it over to Baldwin. Not entirely sure why the armorer herself didn't do that, or why she wasn't there to point out which guns could be used for which scenes, or why she wasn't watching the firearms, all of which is her job. Allowing the crew to use the set firearms recreationally should absolutely not happen. There were a lot of problems on this set.

"Rust" has five other named producers besides Baldwin. I understand Mr. Baldwin is disliked by quite a lot of people and probably for good reason. But they need to charge them all if they are going to criminally charge a producer.

I mean, if you want to make them all accessories, with as screwed up as that set was, I'm all for it. It was a tragedy waiting to happen on the set, and it did...

 

[pahoben]

Your fictional "badass" scenario is not remotely what happened though.

He obviously placed too much trust and faith in the armorer and the assistant director, to the point it didn't seem to occur to him that the gun was loaded.

As far as no one in New Mexico should ever get charged with involuntary manslaughter - it would be hard to find a comparable situation to weigh it against, unless you can find a case where the accused who accidentally shot someone, actually had a hired crew with them at the time to ensure gun safety. I would think that would at least be a mitigating factor in their defence.

The question of what's reasonable is going to be asked when a prosecutor or grand jury decides what should be done. When a supposedly professional armorer is on set and the AD declared the gun to be "cold" that will obviously be a mitigating factor. But if anything, the armorer may be in the most criminal legal trouble if she knew that there were crew members using these guns to pop off in the distance with live ammo, and that a gun would be left on a cart with live ammo.

There was an expert onsite. It was Baldwin's omission (and inconsistent with accepted industry practice) not to consult with that expert to positively determine the gun was unloaded prior to pulling the trigger. It was incumbent on Baldwin in all cases (loaded or unloaded) not to recklessly point the gun at a crew member and pull the trigger.

Baldwin in addition had a management obligation to determine that crew members were properly trained and working in a safe manner. He can't delegate away accountability for safety issues when he had knowledge of ongoing unsafe practices or improperly trained crew members.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

It's been out for a few days, but here's one explanation.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ar...or-focus-movie-set-shooting-probe-2021-10-24/​

Gutierrez, 24, was working as the armorer, or person in charge of firearms on the set. According to an affidavit filed by a Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office detective, she prepared three prop guns and placed them on a cart outside the building where rehearsals were taking place.​

********​

Assistant director Halls, 62, grabbed one of the prop guns off the cart and took it inside to Baldwin, yelling "cold gun", which on movie sets means the gun is not loaded with ammunition, including blanks, according to the detective's affidavit.​

​

He did not know live rounds were in the prop gun when he handed it to the actor, the affidavit said.​

Good lord I’ve been living under a rock (I had a fairly busy weekend so I’m not shocked I’m just hearing about this).
also that’s….scary. There is a significant difference between a loaded and live gun. Namely it’s heavier and you can hear it in the chamber depending on the type of weapon. That’s horrifying

 

[dominiondad]

Good lord I’ve been living under a rock (I had a fairly busy weekend so I’m not shocked I’m just hearing about this).
also that’s….scary. There is a significant difference between a loaded and live gun. Namely it’s heavier and you can hear it in the chamber depending on the type of weapon. That’s horrifying

You spent the weekend ignoring the news and social media? You're the smartest person here.

 

[Sinder]

It sounds like it was only a matter of time before something like this was going to happen on that set.
You would think that after 2 live rounds were accidentally shot off 5 days before this tragedy that they would be extra vigilant with firearm safety protocols.
They should all be charged criminally.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/detectives-loose-boxed-ammo-fanny-111526567.html




Detectives found loose and boxed ammunition, some of it in a fanny pack, at the New Mexico movie set of “Rust” after the fatal shooting of the Western’s cinematographer, according to a police search warrant inventory.
Three black revolvers and nine spent shell casings also were collected, according to the list filed with the Santa Fe Magistrates Court and released Monday.
The inventory adds no new specifics about the prop-gun shooting death of Halyna Hutchins by actor Alec Baldwin during a rehearsal Thursday with what Baldwin told authorities he thought was an unloaded pistol. But the scattered ammunition suggests a disorganized system for maintaining a dangerous prop.
Typically, ammunition would be kept in a single labeled box, veteran professional armorer Mike Tristano told The New York Times. “The fact that there is loose ammunition and casings raises questions about the organization of the armory department,” he said.
The police inventory didn’t specify whether what it labeled as “ammo” included live or dummy bullets, or blank cartridges.
Hutchins was killed by a “live single round,” The Los Angeles Times has reported. A “live” round on a movie set refers to a gun being loaded with some material, which could be a blank, that’s ready for filming, the Times noted.
The search warrant inventory listed two boxes of “ammo,” “loose ammo and boxes” and “a fanny pack w/ammo,” Reuters reported.
A previous police affidavit said first assistant director Dave Halls called out “cold gun” — meaning it was unloaded and safe — when he handed a pistol to Baldwin before the fatal shooting.
Baldwin was practicing drawing the weapon and pointing it at the camera when it fired, wounding Hutchins and director Joel Souza, witnesses told investigators. Hutchins was later pronounced dead. Souza is recovering after hospital treatment.
Halls had been accused in the past of unsafe practices. He was fired in 2019 from the set of the film “Freedom’s Path” after a crew member suffered a minor injury when a gun unexpectedly discharged, CNN reported Monday.
Before last week’s shooting, “Rust” camera operators had walked off the set to protest working conditions, including concerns about gun safety, the LA Times reported.
Five days before Hutchins was killed, Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two live rounds after being told that the weapon didn’t have any ammunition in it, the newspaper reported, citing two crew members.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Again - movie set. They're supposed to have someone on set at all times whose sole responsibility is to prep the firearms for the particular scene. But yeah - a lot of that broke down.

it doesn't matter. The firearm was real... not a toy and loaded with live ammo. Raises the bar considerably. It doesn't remove liability especially considering the circumstances. Conditions were a mess and obviously unsafe.

 

[mrodgers]

Really? I've been in a city. Even in a pretty crappy part of a city and I've never been in a situation where wished that I had a firearm on my person. I've been in rural areas and even came bears, and having a firearm never seemed like it would be useful.

Disagree. My sister has been living in San Francisco for 20 years. Actually IN the city. She doesn't have a gun. Her husband doesn't have a gun. They have 2 young kids. She works at a gym and walks around downtown in the early and late night hours because she teaches classes. She doesn't need a gun. She carries pepper spray and has been assaulted 3 times, once on the BART (metro). She kicked the ever loving poop out of the guy while wearing steel toed boots, right after she punched him in the face. One time, she used the pepper spray and the guy ran away. The third time, she she threw an elbow and likely broke the guy's nose. She walked away calmly while he had his head in his hands, bleeding.

My sister is 5'4" and weighs all of 130 pounds. No one NEEDS a gun for protection just because they live in a city.

If someone breaks into my house, they are gonna meet the end of a baseball bat or a really scary Gerber fixed blade, USMC issued knife and a Marine trained to kill with nothing but his hands.

Psst... Unless you can point it out, I didn't say anyone "needed" a firearm in the city [lack of winky emoji in the mass of cutzie useless emojis...]