Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[Sinder]

I totally agree with you and really can't make sense of the quote. Seems like she was hired because of who her dad was and not because she was qualified for the job.

Or she was cheap.
They hired her and she clearly wasn't qualified for that job and also hired Dave Hall who was fired from a previous job where a gun unexpectedly discharged and injured a sound crew member.
I read he was remorseful for that, but apparently not enough to make sure it never happened again while he was working a movie.
For a movie that seems to have a lot of scenes with guns you would think those hired would be experts with years of experience and a top notch safety records.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Turns out the employee who was shot just finished spending the summer up here in Manitoba working on a film.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Or she was cheap.
They hired her and she clearly wasn't qualified for that job and also hired Dave Hall who was fired from a previous job where a gun unexpectedly discharged and injured a sound crew member.
I read he was remorseful for that, but apparently not enough to make sure it never happened again while he was working a movie.
For a movie that seems to have a lot of scenes with guns you would think those hired would be experts with years of experience and a top notch safety records.

And especially with Mr Baldwin involved, who was such a staunch critic of gun issues.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I listened to an expert on this kind of thing on the Brian Lehrer show today....kind of the most liberal station/host you can find. And he said some things that really made me think about the liability of this whole thing. For one thing, he did lay a lot of the responsibility on the AD....saying it's typically that persons job to keep things moving. This was a low budget/short shoot and they had 21 days to complete it. This guy has a rep for cutting corners. The armorer's father is very respected, but his 24 year old daughter is a newbie at this.

But....when Brian Lehrer pushed back a bit about actor's counting on others to take care of those details so that they can focus on the acting....yada yada, he pointed out a couple of things. For one, he said, like a lot of you guys....if someone handed you a gun and said it was a "cold gun"....would you trust that there was no live ammo in that gun. My thought was....nope. I'd want to see that chamber...if that's what it's called...to see that there were no bullets in the gun. He also described the scene, which was a rehearsal. Alec was seated in one of those pews, and did a "crossover draw"...meaning he reacher across his body with his right hand to the left holster where the gun was. He said that the "180 degree arc that the gun would be passing through".....should have absolutely no people in that arc. And that makes total sense. And yes...he was also a producer on the shoot, so I while I'm not sure how much that has to do with this, there seems to be some culpabilities for anyone who has some sort of "managerial" position on this shoot.

It's such a sad tragedy, but as the days go on, I'm wondering if there will in fact be some sort of criminal charge. It's all just so sad....but either way, there will be a huge, huge settlement. And that's little consolation to her husband, son and family.

 

[DLgal]

Halyna's husband is a lawyer. I'm sure there will be a lawsuit. It will likely get settled for a massive amount of money.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

there's not much out there about the way criminal charges have gone for on-set accidents since John Landis was acquitted. New Mexico may operate differently. But a civil suit, that seems inevitable.

 

[mrodgers]

You spent the weekend ignoring the news and social media? You're the smartest person here.

So it would surprise you to know that not everyone is addicted to social media and don't watch the worthless news on weekends when there's much better things to do?

 

[dominiondad]

So it would surprise you to know that not everyone is addicted to social media and don't watch the worthless news on weekends when there's much better things to do?

It doesn't surprise me, I'm just jealous. There are a lot of things I know I should do (avoid social media, exercise, stop eating those candy corn-ish pumpkins, etc...) but never seem to pull it off.

 

[bcla]

there's not much out there about the way criminal charges have gone for on-set accidents since John Landis was acquitted. New Mexico may operate differently. But a civil suit, that seems inevitable.

The only comparable event was the shooting of Brandon Lee, which wasn't prosecuted even though it was pretty obvious that there was negligence.

 

[JimMIA]

The only comparable event was the shooting of Brandon Lee, which wasn't prosecuted even though it was pretty obvious that there was negligence.

That was almost 30 years ago, and in North Carolina.

Although the incidents were similar in some ways, New Mexico law and precedent today are probably different from NC law 28 years ago, so I don't think it's possible to draw any conclusions about prosecution.

There was a press conference today where the prosecutor said they are still investigating, and that nothing had been taken "off the table," including the possibilities of criminal charges.

The prosecutor also specifically criticized the media depiction of the weapon as a "prop gun," saying it was a "legit gun."

I know nothing about NM criminal law, so it's hard to guess whether any criminal charges might be filed.

 

[bcla]

That was almost 30 years ago, and in North Carolina.

Although the incidents were similar in some ways, New Mexico law and precedent today are probably different from NC law 28 years ago, so I don't think it's possible to draw any conclusions about prosecution.

There was a press conference today where the prosecutor said they are still investigating, and that nothing had been taken "off the table," including the possibilities of criminal charges.

The prosecutor also specifically criticized the media depiction of the weapon as a "prop gun," saying it was a "legit gun."

I know nothing about NM criminal law, so it's hard to guess whether any criminal charges might be filed.

The involuntary manslaughter law is pretty short, but interpretation of that law would be key. I really doubt that Alec Baldwin has any criminal liability in this case though. It just doesn't seem likely.

I recall that no individual was prosecuted in the shooting death of Brandon Lee, but the prosecutor did bring up the possibility of the production company being criminally prosecuted. Not sure what that could have done since a company can't go to prison, but I suppose that could mean criminal fines.

 

[JimMIA]

The involuntary manslaughter law is pretty short, but interpretation of that law would be key. I really doubt that Alec Baldwin has any criminal liability in this case though. It just doesn't seem likely.

It's impossible to guess. We have no idea what the evidence in the case is -- only very sketchy media reports, which are notoriously inaccurate.

We also don't know what NM precedent is in cases like this. Precedent may or may not be binding, but it is often very critical in cases like this where a lot of prosecutorial discretion is used.

The prosecutor here is between the rock and a hard place. Movie production is a huge revenue source for the Taos economy, and nobody wants to drive that away. Baldwin is a very popular actor, but he did pull the trigger. And very important -- one person died and another was injured.

 

[dominiondad]

The involuntary manslaughter law is pretty short, but interpretation of that law would be key. I really doubt that Alec Baldwin has any criminal liability in this case though. It just doesn't seem likely.

I recall that no individual was prosecuted in the shooting death of Brandon Lee, but the prosecutor did bring up the possibility of the production company being criminally prosecuted. Not sure what that could have done since a company can't go to prison, but I suppose that could mean criminal fines.

Agreed, it's a pretty short statute. The important part is " Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection" I added the emphasis. I don't think it's a big reach to suggest that drawing a real gun, pointing it at somebody, and pulling the trigger resulting in a death is without due caution. I don't think you could find a single gun owner/operator, especially one that uses a gun for a living (like Baldwin), who would suggest that it is the behavior of a cautious gun owner.

 

[bcla]

Sounds like some pretty crazy stuff that was going on at the set. With reports of people shooting off the set during breaks, perhaps some of the crew brought them. So it must be something that can take cartridges, although it may or may not have been one that could use modern, smokeless powder. A lot of the original types of these guns were only designed for black powder. Also the dummy rounds were supposed to have drilled holes to indicate that they are as such.

https://apnews.com/article/prop-gun...ics-santa-fe-e6b4d769e5df47ee0c23d4ad69f1992d​

Testing is being done to determine whether the lead projectile recovered from director Joel Souza’s shoulder was fired from the gun — a long Colt revolver — used by Baldwin. Two other guns seized include a single-action revolver that may have been modified and a plastic prop gun that was described as a revolver.​

​

Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza said it’s too early to comment on whether any charges will be filed. He also noted that 500 rounds of ammunition — a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and live rounds — were found while searching the set.​

​

The sheriff would not comment on how the rounds got on set.​

********​

The film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, said she checked dummy bullets on the day of the shooting to ensure that none were “hot” rounds. She also told a detective that while the guns used for filming were locked up during a crew lunch break, ammunition was left on a cart unsecured, according to a search warrant released Wednesday ahead of the press conference.​

​

Gutierrez Reed told a detective that no live ammo was ever kept on the set.​

Assistant director David Halls, who handed the gun to Baldwin before the shooting, said Gutierrez Reed typically opened the hatch of the gun and spun the drum, though he couldn’t recall if she did that before the shooting. He said he only remembered seeing three rounds in the gun.​

​

After the shooting, Halls took the gun to Gutierrez and said he saw five rounds in the gun, at least four of them were “dummy” rounds indicated by a hole on the side and a cap on the round. Halls said there was also a casing in the gun that did not have the cap and did not have the hole indicating it was a dummy.​

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I noticed at the briefining just now that they stated Mr. Baldwin was practicing his drawing of the gun. Which might not indicate his intent to point at a target. I wonder if that can play a factor down road.

 

[dominiondad]

I noticed at the briefining just now that they stated Mr. Baldwin was practicing his drawing of the gun. Which might not indicate his intent to point at a target. I wonder if that can play a factor down road.

I feel like practicing makes if worse for him. If he was simply practicing his draw, there is no reason to pull the trigger. Also, since they weren't filming, there's no reason he couldn't have done it in a way that didn't result in pointing the gun at people.

 

[bcla]

It's impossible to guess. We have no idea what the evidence in the case is -- only very sketchy media reports, which are notoriously inaccurate.

We also don't know what NM precedent is in cases like this. Precedent may or may not be binding, but it is often very critical in cases like this where a lot of prosecutorial discretion is used.

The prosecutor here is between the rock and a hard place. Movie production is a huge revenue source for the Taos economy, and nobody wants to drive that away. Baldwin is a very popular actor, but he did pull the trigger. And very important -- one person died and another was injured.

I don't think Taos is that big with the movie economy (I thought the ski resort is the biggest economic engine around Taos), and I believe that this was closer to Santa Fe.

But sure there isn't really too much precedent about this since it's pretty rare and the only comparable events happened in other states.

 

[bcla]

The video I posted was cut short. This one is complete.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I've read comments from others on set stating "more experienced" actors would check their firearms and didn't rely solely on the armorer or anyone else. It does appear some practice reasonable safety precautions. I'm glad the media has been corrected regarding those referring to the weapon as a"prop gun". This bothered me and was very misleading.

 

[JimMIA]

I don't think Taos is that big with the movie economy (I thought the ski resort is the biggest economic engine around Taos), and I believe that this was closer to Santa Fe.

You're right. This location is just south of Sante Fe and nowhere near Taos.

However this particular location is a very popular filming site, and has been for decades. They've come a long way since Jimmy Stewart!

Here are some stats from the New Mexico Film Office.

After a slow year in 2020 due to Covid, FY 21 yielded $624 Million in direct spending in New Mexico. That's direct spending by the production companies; it does not include any of the ripple effects of the productions on local economies.

There were 72 film projects, totaling 528,531 days worked -- which is a whole bunch of work!



https://nmfilm.com/statistics2/*****

But sure there isn't really too much precedent about this since it's pretty rare and the only comparable events happened in other states.

There is probably plenty of precedent in New Mexico about someone shooting someone else accidentally. A tragedy doesn't have to occur only on a movie set to have close similarities in facts and how the law was applied.