Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[Sinder]

You are correct about it being unloaded my apologies. You should always treat anything like that as live. You think my mythbusters loving self would’ve remembered that.
It doesn’t happen a lot anymore, as a matter of fact I wouldn’t have been shocked if before this tragic occurrence that this was one of the last to do so. Blanks can still be dangerous too, but they also can cause less issues.
A lot of actors have actually been fighting this for years and years due to hearing and ear troubles. So I’m shocked more companies haven’t used the muzzled ones for the shot with the weapon and then a different noise for the reaction shot.
and as you said, a lot of people do not know how to handle any weapon and no amount of training will change that.

I wasn't saying that to you, you've got nothing to apologize for- I was saying that "to" the person on set who assumed it was unloaded. Truth is on a movie set one might think it's safe to assume a gun is unloaded, but sadly we see that isn't the case, even if it doesn't happen often. I think the best thing to do for anyone who handles firearms is to assume any gun you see/handle is real and it is loaded.
I imagine after this there will be a lot of changes, or maybe more oversight on movie sets now.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

I wasn't saying that to you, you've got nothing to apologize for- I was saying that "to" the person on set who assumed it was unloaded. Truth is on a movie set one might think it's safe to assume a gun is unloaded, but sadly we see that isn't the case, even if it doesn't happen often. I think the best thing to do for anyone who handles firearms is to assume any gun you see/handle is real and it is loaded.
I imagine after this there will be a lot of changes, or maybe more oversight on movie sets now.

Oh absolutely. Changes are happening regardless, but this will definitely speed up a lot of changes that actors and IATSE members have been fighting for. Does CGI or practical cost more money? Yes (more yes and no for practical) but it’s definitely something that is going to change.

 

[Dead2009]

Rule #1 is always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

Sounds like Alec Baldwin should be charged with Manslaughter.

According to Arizona laws, per A.R.S §13-1103 a person can be charged with “Manslaughter” by:

1. “Recklessly” causing the death of another;

Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant.

Can you really be reckless if you were constantly told that the prop was safe to use? I'm no actor but I'm sure his prop team and everyone else told him he was good to go. Saying he should be thrown in jail for an accident is pushing it.

As far as the Crow thing, people to this day still say there was a hit out on Brandon Lee's life, so even though it comes off as an accident to most, it was intentional to most.

 

[Mysterian]

While rare - deaths do happen on sets and it seems they usually don't get lasting publicity unless something like this. Usually it is a car accident, crashing plane/helicopter....

I remember that, Vic Morrow, and two of the kids in that scene from The Twilight Zone. Jon Landis was actually charged, but acquitted.

Landis was charged because there were overall issues with safety and working conditions, including regulations regarding child actors. Brandon Lee's family never filed criminal charges, but it seems like general knowledge that the fault was with the props department and not the overall work environment fostered by director Alex Proyas.

So in regards to speculation about Baldwin being charged, there's not enough data to say. If there are further reports that Baldwin, the producer, was sloppy with regulations on set like Landis was, then I could see him in hot water. My gut says this was an isolated issue, but we'll see.


(PS - Director Boris Sagal, the dad of Katie Sagal, was also killed by a helicopter while on a film set. He accidentally walked into the blades, but I don't think this was during a shoot.)

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

There is also going to be multiple investigations for various unions

Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant.

Can you really be reckless if you were constantly told that the prop was safe to use? I'm no actor but I'm sure his prop team and everyone else told him he was good to go. Saying he should be thrown in jail for an accident is pushing it.

As far as the Crow thing, people to this day still say there was a hit out on Brandon Lee's life, so even though it comes off as an accident to most, it was intentional to most.
[/QUOTEs

There is also going to be multiple investigations from all ends including SAG, IATSE, local police, state police. So as of right now it’s hard to say which way they could go.

I was just reading about that theory regarding Mr. Lee the other day.
Regardless, this is a very tragic situation.

 

[Mysterian]

As far as the Crow thing, people to this day still say there was a hit out on Brandon Lee's life, so even though it comes off as an accident to most, it was intentional to most.

Why would there be a hit on Lee? Since his death, I think people want to say that there's more there than there really is. Same applies to the "curse" of the Bruce Lee and his family.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

I don't foresee criminal charges. Civil suits, yep, out the wazoo. If Alec Baldwin is executive producer like it's been mentioned, he's responsible.

 

[bcla]

The only thing I can think of is a scene prior they were filming it being loaded, in which case sometimes they do in fact use the real deal and with someone on set who knows how to use it.

I heard that a live round should never get anywhere near a movie set. Maybe they train them on how to actually fire them at a shooting range, but on set there's never supposed to be a regular live round.

I heard about the training that Tom Cruise did for Collateral. He actually trained on how to quick fire and they used live ammo during the training.

Blanks are usually crimped. Real blanks have special brass that's crimped closed (likely with wadding at the tip), real primer, and real powder. I hear they may even have stuff in there to make the flame look bigger. I could imagine that there's a possibility of the crimped part breaking off, but it probably wouldn't be enough to kill anyone.

I used to have friends who went shooting and I tried it a few times with them. Once I saw some .22 blanks at the shop portion of a range. They were only designed for .22 revolvers. They were like these:

 

[kdonnel]

Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant.

Can you really be reckless if you were constantly told that the prop was safe to use? I'm no actor but I'm sure his prop team and everyone else told him he was good to go. Saying he should be thrown in jail for an accident is pushing it.

As far as the Crow thing, people to this day still say there was a hit out on Brandon Lee's life, so even though it comes off as an accident to most, it was intentional to most.

If as producer Alec Baldwin approved a policy to use real ammunition, he is negligent and reckless in his actions.

 

[bcla]

I remember that, Vic Morrow, and two of the kids in that scene from The Twilight Zone. Jon Landis was actually charged, but acquitted.

Landis was charged because there were overall issues with safety and working conditions, including regulations regarding child actors. Brandon Lee's family never filed criminal charges, but it seems like general knowledge that the fault was with the props department and not the overall work environment fostered by director Alex Proyas.

So in regards to speculation about Baldwin being charged, there's not enough data to say. If there are further reports that Baldwin, the producer, was sloppy with regulations on set like Landis was, then I could see him in hot water. My gut says this was an isolated issue, but we'll see.


(PS - Director Boris Sagal, the dad of Katie Sagal, was also killed by a helicopter while on a film set. He accidentally walked into the blades, but I don't think this was during a shoot.)

Right now it's not clear exactly where they got the guns, although there's a general indication that the crew was from New Mexico. They could have just hired a local firearms instructor rather than one of the operators that work in Hollywood.

However, there are some who claim that Alec Baldwin is ultimately responsible because he didn't personally check the weapon. I that's a strange take because it's highly unusual for an actor to check a weapon that a supposed "expert" has already checked and handed straight to the actor.

 

[JoeA]

Unless he fired multiple times, or there was an entry/exit, then this almost sounds like a shotgun blast. A single bullet wouldn't necessarily hit two people (w/o an exit wound)

 

[fly girl]

I don't know anything about the safety practices on movie sets so I will wait to hear what unfolds with the investigation.

However, like many on here have said prior to me, I feel horrible for Alec Baldwin. No, I am not a fan, AT ALL. But, this seems to be a very tragic and horrible accident. An accident that killed a person and he will have to live with that forever. I don't wish that on anyone.

 

[bcla]

Unless he fired multiple times, or there was an entry/exit, then this almost sounds like a shotgun blast. A single bullet wouldn't necessarily hit two people (w/o an exit wound)

We don't know exactly what went down until there's a more detailed report. The director's injury was mild enough that he was out of the hospital within a few hours of receiving treatment, so it could have been someone thing like a bullet fragment or the bullet hitting something else and raining debris on him. Could very well have been a scene where there was supposed to be multiple shots fired. We will eventually find out.

If it was a shotgun, there is zero excuse for having anything with pellets anywhere on the set. At least with revolvers, there's a reason to have dummy bullets.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I just wonder if someone fairly inexperienced with guns was shooting it night before. Replaced the bullet back but forgot to change one in chamber. If that's the case could manslaughter be a result if Alec was the one who was shooting night before. Could someone be charged with manslaughter for leaving bullet in chamber. I know nothing about guns so maybe my bullet in chamber theory is garbage.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I didn't notice if anybody mentioned but the movie itself main character has been accused of murder which was an accidental shooting.

 

[Moliphino]

Prop masters union (International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees Local 44) apparently says there was a live round in the gun. I think they do at times use live rounds for certain scenes, such as when a character is shown loading a gun.

Apparently "live" can also include blanks?

"A source close to union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun being loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming. "

Link to article

 

[TwoMisfits]

This is bad for Baldwin...from a Tweet for the article...

"
“Corners were being cut—& they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” one person said. There were 2 misfires on the prop gun & 1 the previous week, they said, & “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”
@MegJamesLAT
:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

 

[neverlandsky]

What a horrible fatal accident. Constructive Manslaugher. No different then someone running a red light with their vehicle (weapon) and causing a fatal accident. Alec will be charged and sued.

 

[bcla]

What a horrible fatal accident. Constructive Manslaugher. No different then someone running a red light with their vehicle (weapon) and causing a fatal accident. Alec will be charged and sued.

It's really unlikely at this point, although it's not clear whose job it was to check the weapon before it was used.

 

[kdonnel]

It's really unlikely at this point, although it's not clear whose job it was to check the weapon before it was used.

It should always be the person pulling the trigger.

Send everyone that will be handling firearms on set to a gun safety class prior to filming.

You never trust that a firearm is safe until you do it yourself.