Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[leeniewdw]

It's really unlikely at this point, although it's not clear whose job it was to check the weapon before it was used.

It should always be the person pulling the trigger.

Send everyone that will be handling firearms on set to a gun safety class prior to filming.

You never trust that a firearm is safe until you do it yourself.

Yeah, I'm not a movie industry expert NOR a gun expert NOR a lawyer. But if someone handed me a gun and and said it's safe to pull the trigger and I did so and killed someone. I have to believe I'm guilty of some sort of crime. Perhaps it would be different if he had a pop-gun and it somehow created a Rube Goldberg like domino effect that caused a ladder to land on someone's head. But a real actual gun that is capable of killing someone is, well, capable of killing someone. There has to be a difference.

 

[bcla]

It should always be the person pulling the trigger.

Send everyone that will be handling firearms on set to a gun safety class prior to filming.

You never trust that a firearm is safe until you do it yourself.

What happened with Alec Baldwin is typically the case for any film set. They hire people to handle the firearms and make sure that they're properly prepped for a scene. The actors are instructed on what to do with them, and I haven't heard of an actor who was ever expected to inspect a firearm when it's been handed over by someone who should have checked.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I take it no one read the LA Times article I posted yet...this set was not run like other sets, if you believe the LA Times reporting this evening...

 

[kdonnel]

What happened with Alec Baldwin is typically the case for any film set. They hire people to handle the firearms and make sure that they're properly prepped for a scene. The actors are instructed on what to do with them, and I haven't heard of an actor who was ever expected to inspect a firearm when it's been handed over by someone who should have checked.

Then the process is wrong and all filming with firearms should stop until the industry adopts sensible firearm handling rules.

 

[JimMIA]

What happened with Alec Baldwin is typically the case for any film set. They hire people to handle the firearms and make sure that they're properly prepped for a scene. The actors are instructed on what to do with them, and I haven't heard of an actor who was ever expected to inspect a firearm when it's been handed over by someone who should have checked.

I have no idea what the standard procedures are on a movie set -- but if that is really the practice, it's just a brain-dead stoooopid way to do things.

 

[bcla]

I take it no one read the LA Times article I posted yet...this set was not run like other sets, if you believe the LA Times reporting this evening...

I went through it. It didn't really mention who was responsible for the firearms on set. Even if it was a crew, the firearms experts are almost always going to be consultants who usually provide the firearms. There's no word on whether or not they handed over the firearms handling to the replacement crew, and for some reason I doubt it. It's usually a full serve operation.

 

[JimMIA]

Baldwin also supposedly sent a text or tweet a few years ago about a police shooting, saying "I wonder how it feels to wrongfully kill someone."

He's apparently taking a beating on social media over that one.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I went through it. It didn't really mention who was responsible for the firearms on set. Even if it was a crew, the firearms experts are almost always going to be consultants who usually provide the firearms. There's no word on whether or not they handed over the firearms handling to the replacement crew, and for some reason I doubt it. It's usually a full serve operation.

More about the lack of safety (and safety briefings) on set, the previous misfires already documented on set, the walkout by union folks over set issues (including safety) and the replacing of those union folks who complained and quit with non union labor, etc...maybe the LA Times article link was bad...here's Deadline's scoop of the same...

https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-m...es-production-camera-crew-walkout-1234860497/

 

[JimMIA]

I went through it. It didn't really mention who was responsible for the firearms on set. Even if it was a crew, the firearms experts are almost always going to be consultants who usually provide the firearms. There's no word on whether or not they handed over the firearms handling to the replacement crew, and for some reason I doubt it. It's usually a full serve operation.

The person holding any firearm, anywhere in the world, is responsible for that firearm.

 

[bcla]

I have no idea what the standard procedures are on a movie set -- but if that is really the practice, it's just a brain-dead stoooopid way to do things.

People are supposed to be paid to provide expert-level services. My understanding is that on a set, nobody except the weapons handlers are supposed to have access to a firearm unless it's being actively used for shooting or rehearsal.

I guess it's the same with anything else where there's a severe danger if something is missed. I don't think most people who go down zip lines double-check the equipment when someone is paid to do it. I've gone go-karting before, and definitely didn't check the vehicle before getting in.

I did see this article where it says that best practices are for the actor to ask to see the loading that it's test fired and to watch the loading. That being said, I'm not sure if Alec Baldwin really knows that much about firearms.

https://apnews.com/article/entertai...exico-movies-2079a865611116a7301f5d755ac4ca0c​

WHAT ARE THE RULES FOR FIREARMS ON SET?​

​

The weapons master is required to be on set whenever a weapon is being used. The Actors’ Equity Association’s guidelines state that, “Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside.” Further, “All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision.”​

​

Armory coordinator Sam Dormer said that, “Nowadays, all weapons are checked before your blanks are put into the weapon. ... The blanks themselves are never loaded until the very last minute when all crew is in position, so the armorer knows exactly where every member of the crew is so that no one’s walking through any danger areas the armorer has set up.”​

 

[Carol_]

People are supposed to be paid to provide expert-level services. My understanding is that on a set, nobody except the weapons handlers are supposed to have access to a firearm unless it's being actively used for shooting or rehearsal.

I guess it's the same with anything else where there's a severe danger if something is missed. I don't think most people who go down zip lines double-check the equipment when someone is paid to do it. I've gone go-karting before, and definitely didn't check the vehicle before getting in.

I did see this article where it says that best practices are for the actor to ask to see the loading that it's test fired and to watch the loading. That being said, I'm not sure if Alec Baldwin really knows that much about firearms.

I guarantee that Mr. Baldwin believes he knows everything there is to know about everything under the sun.

 

[bcla]

Yeah, I'm not a movie industry expert NOR a gun expert NOR a lawyer. But if someone handed me a gun and and said it's safe to pull the trigger and I did so and killed someone. I have to believe I'm guilty of some sort of crime. Perhaps it would be different if he had a pop-gun and it somehow created a Rube Goldberg like domino effect that caused a ladder to land on someone's head. But a real actual gun that is capable of killing someone is, well, capable of killing someone. There has to be a difference.

The only comparison is the death of Brandon Lee. The prosecutors stated that they believe there was negligence on set, but that they didn't have enough to charge anyone with a crime.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-07-16-ca-13538-story.html​

No Charges Filed: No charges will be brought against crew members in the March 31 shooting death of actor Brandon Lee on the North Carolina movie set of “The Crow.” But, Dist. Atty. Jerry Spivey said he has not yet ruled out criminal negligence charges against the film production company, Crowvision. The 28-year-old son of martial arts star Bruce Lee was killed during filming by a gun that was supposed to hold a blank but is believed to have instead fired part of a dummy bullet that apparently had been inserted for an earlier, close-up scene. Spivey told the Wilmington (N.C.) Morning Star that crew members were apparently negligent but not enough to warrant charges. He said no one intended to harm Lee. Spivey is waiting to interview Bruce Merlin, the film’s lead special effects person, before deciding whether Crowvision showed a disregard for safety. A conviction on such charges is punishable with an unlimited fine, Spivey said.​

 

[dvcgirl67]

This is bad for Baldwin...from a Tweet for the article...

"
“Corners were being cut—& they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” one person said. There were 2 misfires on the prop gun & 1 the previous week, they said, & “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”
@MegJamesLAT
:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Just read this article....and it seems like there were a lot of issues with the crew....and those two misfires on Saturday that the crew complained about. It seems like a poorly run shoot that ended in a terrible tragedy.

 

[Planogirl]

Regardless of how the set was run and who did this or that, I still feel bad for Baldwin. I can’t imagine being responsible for what happened.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Regardless of how the set was run and who did this or that, I still feel bad for Baldwin. I can’t imagine being responsible for what happened.

I feel terrible for him too. I can see in this thread that a lot of people don't like him. I like him, but I get why some don't....he's definitely had some serious rage issues and has been a jerk at times. But there is another side to him....and least I believe there is. I don't know what will happen with the investigation...etc, but I can't imagine that even if it's deemed that he is at no fault for this tragedy, I don't think a person can ever recover completely from this kind of thing. I saw the photo of him in that parking lot...two of them actually......he looked absolutely gutted.

 

[Planogirl]

I feel terrible for him too. I can see in this thread that a lot of people don't like him. I like him, but I get why some don't....he's definitely had some serious rage issues and has been a jerk at times. But there is another side to him....and least I believe there is. I don't know what will happen with the investigation...etc, but I can't imagine that even if it's deemed that he is at no fault for this tragedy, I don't think a person can ever recover completely from this kind of thing. I saw the photo of him in that parking lot...two of them actually......he looked absolutely gutted.

I loved him in 30 Rock and a few movies but he can be difficult to say the least. This might knock him down a peg or two.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I loved him in 30 Rock and a few movies but he can be difficult to say the least. This might knock him down a peg or two.

Same...he's a truly gifted actor, and has a heart for causes that are important. But yes...he can totally be a jerk. Still, I feel for him...and everyone involved with that shoot...the scene, etc. Reading the LA Times article, I can't help but think that the shoot for this movie sounds like so many other industries right now. Not enough workers, too long hours, difficult working conditions...etc. It sounds like all of that added to the end result....this tragedy.

 

[JimMIA]

People are supposed to be paid to provide expert-level services. My understanding is that on a set, nobody except the weapons handlers are supposed to have access to a firearm unless it's being actively used for shooting or rehearsal.

I guess it's the same with anything else where there's a severe danger if something is missed. I don't think most people who go down zip lines double-check the equipment when someone is paid to do it. I've gone go-karting before, and definitely didn't check the vehicle before getting in.

I did see this article where it says that best practices are for the actor to ask to see the loading that it's test fired and to watch the loading. That being said, I'm not sure if Alec Baldwin really knows that much about firearms.

https://apnews.com/article/entertai...exico-movies-2079a865611116a7301f5d755ac4ca0c​

WHAT ARE THE RULES FOR FIREARMS ON SET?​

​

The weapons master is required to be on set whenever a weapon is being used. The Actors’ Equity Association’s guidelines state that, “Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside.” Further, “All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision.”​

​

Armory coordinator Sam Dormer said that, “Nowadays, all weapons are checked before your blanks are put into the weapon. ... The blanks themselves are never loaded until the very last minute when all crew is in position, so the armorer knows exactly where every member of the crew is so that no one’s walking through any danger areas the armorer has set up.”​

Blah, blah, blah. The person with the gun in their hand is responsible for everything about the gun -- and especially safety.

 

[JimMIA]

Regardless of how the set was run and who did this or that, I still feel bad for Baldwin. I can’t imagine being responsible for what happened.

Agree. Killing another human being -- even in self-defense where it was you or them -- is a horrible thing to bear for the rest of your life. To kill someone accidentally would be even more difficult, I think.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Blah, blah, blah. The person with the gun in their hand is responsible for everything about the gun -- and especially safety.

I'm not a gun owner...but what you say makes sense in the "real world". I'm just curious about how that works on a set where the gun is supposed to have "blanks" in it. And I'm not quite sure I understand what blanks are.....I know there's a discharge, but if it was "blanks"....is the props guy also somewhat responsible if two people were that badly injured....with one dying. But I do think that there should have been serious safety meetings....etc. It's just such a tragedy.