Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[dvcgirl67]

Agree. Killing another human being -- even in self-defense where it was you or them -- is a horrible thing to bear for the rest of your life. To kill someone accidentally would be even more difficult, I think.

Oh, totally....I don't know how one gets over that. That would be a terrible burden to carry.

 

[bsmcneil]

If as producer Alec Baldwin approved a policy to use real ammunition, he is negligent and reckless in his actions.

It really seems like you have a personal problem with the actor. Is that true?

 

[dvcgirl67]

This seems to be the latest from the NYT....assistant director yelled..."Cold gun!" as he handed it to Baldwin....but seems to not have been and had "live rounds" in it....that hit the director in the shoulder, and the director of photography in the chest....killing her.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/1...e-gave-alec-baldwin-a-cold-gun-that-was-empty

 

[bsmcneil]

Blah, blah, blah. The person with the gun in their hand is responsible for everything about the gun -- and especially safety.

Hey, can we quote you when police kill unarmed citizens?
I've been told this is off-topic but it seems weird to completely delete it - hence the strikethrough.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Hey, can we quote you when police kill unarmed citizens?

I think you're going off-topic....and will get the thread shut down.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I wasn't saying that to you, you've got nothing to apologize for- I was saying that "to" the person on set who assumed it was unloaded. Truth is on a movie set one might think it's safe to assume a gun is unloaded, but sadly we see that isn't the case, even if it doesn't happen often. I think the best thing to do for anyone who handles firearms is to assume any gun you see/handle is real and it is loaded.
I imagine after this there will be a lot of changes, or maybe more oversight on movie sets now.

Everyone needs at least minimal knowledge of gun safety. Our children were taught the basics at a very early age.

 

[DLgal]

Everyone needs at least minimal knowledge of gun safety. Our children were taught the basics at a very early age.

Disagree. I've never handled a gun and never plan to. Same goes for my kids. I've taught them to never touch one. No matter what. My husband is a Marine and is adamant that we never have a gun in the house. You don't need any knowledge of a weapon you never never plan to touch.

 

[LYSE]

When handling firearms say at a gun store it's extremely common and expected for the sales associate to demonstrate that the gun is empty and hand it to the customer, the customer then verifies again that it is empty before dry firing.

This should happen everytime the firearm changes hands, I want to show a friend a firearm so I retrieve it, unload it or verify it's unloaded then hand it over to them and they verify again.

Actors need to at least learn that much about the weapons they handle.

 

[bcla]

This seems to be the latest from the NYT....assistant director yelled..."Cold gun!" as he handed it to Baldwin....but seems to not have been and had "live rounds" in it....that hit the director in the shoulder, and the director of photography in the chest....killing her.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/1...e-gave-alec-baldwin-a-cold-gun-that-was-empty

Apparently that means there's nothing in the firearm that will go boom. Or at least that's what it's supposed to mean. I only saw an LA Times article, but that noted Baldwin was backing out of the church building on the ranch, and pulled out the gun from a holster. So it was likely a revolver. The cinematographer and director weren’t even in on the filming. They were off to the side composing another camera angle while an assistant director was in charge of the activity, which some say was a rehearsal.

 

[JimMIA]

And I'm not quite sure I understand what blanks are.....I know there's a discharge, but if it was "blanks"....is the props guy also somewhat responsible if two people were that badly injured....with one dying.

Blanks typically are a cartridge with no bullet. There is a brass case, and the base of the case has an area called the primer. The primer is an impact-ignited area, which when struck by the hammer of the gun ignites and in turn ignites the gunpowder. The bullet is a lead slug which is propelled down the barrel of the gun toward the target.

In a shotgun shell, the bullet is replaced by smaller round pellets, with the size of the pellets depending on what you're hunting. Shotgun cartridge cases are also paper instead of brass.

In a blank, the lead bullet is typically replaced by a paper or plastic wad the same size diameter (caliber)-- but at close range it can do serious damage.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Disagree. I've never handled a gun and never plan to. Same goes for my kids. I've taught them to never touch one. No matter what. My husband is a Marine and is adamant that we never have a gun in the house. You don't need any knowledge of a weapon you never never plan to touch.

Teaching them to never touch a gun is teaching them gun safety. We taught ours the same thing. Also to tell an adult if you see one. Coming across a gun doesn't only happen at home.

 

[kdonnel]

It really seems like you have a personal problem with the actor. Is that true?

I don’t personally know him any more than any other fan of his TV and movies. I have certainly enjoyed many of his performances.

 

[kdonnel]

This was the fourth discharge of an unloaded gun on the set of Rust


https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set that day said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges on Saturday.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks, two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” said the crew member. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.

 

[Sinder]

If your profession requires you to handle a firearm then it is your responsibility to know how to use it, including checking whether it’s loaded or not.
Actors handle firearms, they shouldn’t get a pass on being responsible gun users and they shouldn’t just rely on others to tell them it’s safe. If it’s in their hands they are the ones responsible for pulling the trigger and anything that happens after that.

If Joe Scmoe was handed a gun and told it wasn’t loaded and he pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger, would he get a pass if that person died?

 

[starry_solo]

Apparently the film industry didn’t learn from the tragic death of Brandon Lee in 1993…

 

[bcla]

Blanks typically are a cartridge with no bullet. There is a brass case, and the base of the case has an area called the primer. The primer is an impact-ignited area, which when struck by the hammer of the gun ignites and in turn ignites the gunpowder. The bullet is a lead slug which is propelled down the barrel of the gun toward the target.

In a shotgun shell, the bullet is replaced by smaller round pellets, with the size of the pellets depending on what you're hunting. Shotgun cartridge cases are also paper instead of brass.

In a blank, the lead bullet is typically replaced by a paper or plastic wad the same size diameter (caliber)-- but at close range it can do serious damage.

View attachment 615528

Aren’t shotgun shells plastic these day, with a brass case? I specifically remember bird shot was sold at our local drug store, and was right there on the shelves, and nobody was concerned that a 10 year old was inspecting the contents. I’m pretty sure the shot was held in via a plastic tube that was capped.

Also, this was likely a revolver with a rimmed cartridge, and those are usually just crimped. The photo you attached was of a rimless cartridge. I understand that without a bullet, the gun would have to be modified with a blank adapter drilled into the barrel so it will restrict the opening so it generates enough pressure to cycle. And they absolutely can’t be used with real ammunition without replacing the barrel or sometimes removing the adapter, since it would just blow up. I’m hearing that there can also be problems with the adapter sometimes getting shot out.

 

[tzolkin]

I'm not a gun owner...but what you say makes sense in the "real world". I'm just curious about how that works on a set where the gun is supposed to have "blanks" in it. And I'm not quite sure I understand what blanks are.....I know there's a discharge, but if it was "blanks"....is the props guy also somewhat responsible if two people were that badly injured....with one dying. But I do think that there should have been serious safety meetings....etc. It's just such a tragedy.

I agree. Most are adamant that the person holding the firearm is 100% responsible. And I absolutely agree… if they know it is actually a “firearm”.

I think many people would assume that the guns used in movies are not “real” and are just props. Of course you absolutely never point a gun at a person in real life, but if you believe it’s just a prop gun for a movie I could see where one may consider that an exception.

I guess I just don’t know enough about this topic, but I really don’t understand why real guns are still being used for purposes like this. And several have mentioned that real ammunition may be used during practice shooting and then accidentally not removed. That seems insane to me. Why would you even risk that opportunity for human error by ever loading the guns in the first place?

 

[JimMIA]

Here's a little more detailed information from Associated Press on the transfer of the gun from an Assistant Director to Baldwin:

https://www.local10.com/entertainme...in-fired-prop-gun-on-movie-set-killing-woman/

 

[JimMIA]

I have more empathy for Baldwin after reading the above, but I can't imagine the need to have live rounds in guns on a movie set. smh.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I have more empathy for Baldwin after reading the above, but I can't imagine the need to have live rounds in guns on a movie set. smh.

I actually don't - as co-producer of the film as well, he knew there were live rounds on set (even if supposedly not in that gun). He was one of the ones responsible for overseeing the whole movie and its safety on set. So, he has to check every time, ESPECIALLY b/c they had multiple issues already.

If he was only an actor, I'd agree, and then put the involuntary manslaughter charges only on the assistant director, who has earned them b/c what he did was flat reckless...but he's not...