Alcohol at Chuck E Cheese yes or no - What do you think??

[Planogirl]

I don't approve of drinking alcoholic beverages while one is working. The teachers who are chaperoning the trips are obviously at work so drinking at that time is a no-no.

Now, if we run into one of DS' teachers at a restaurant and he or she is having a beer, I wouldn't blink twice. I might frown a bit if his English teacher was drunk and dancing on the table but that's an extreme.

 

[Aidensmom]

So, I discussed this with my hubby last night - I'll keep his comments to myself - LOL! - and here is what we came up with:

1. Pierlieq - You didn't need to directy say I lived in a Fantasyland since you made the statement that excluding alcohol from kids' establishments would create a Fantasyland - this directly connects to me (and any of the other posters who feel the same way, I guess) as I believe that alcohol should be excluded from these places; therefore, I would be contributing to this Fantasyland. If this wasn't your intention, then you woudn't have referenced the Fantasyland statement since it was directed at those of us who share this belief.

2. The entire crux of this argument is the fact that many of you don't like your rights taken away and this can be proven by this statement: "But we do live in America. Anything Goes." No comment is necessary from me here as I don't want to get into a cultural debate with any of you since I am not American and I absolutely don't subscribe to this theory - which I'm sure many of you already figured out. Life is about sacrifice - giving up a beer for a few hours while your kids play at Chuck E Cheese is not that big of a deal.

3. Most parents I know demand that I am a positive role model and very moral in my beliefs at all times when in the company of their children; therefore, it is not acceptable nor encouraged for teachers to frequent kiddie bars in my city because we would be interacting with our students. In fact, some principals even suggest that teachers don't drink in public at all, nor frequent strip clubs, get caught gambling excessively at the Casino, etc. You can say it's creating a Fantasyland, but that's not how we look at it since we are are trained to remember that each and everytime we step out into our community, we must conduct ourselves in a positive and responsible manner = good role model at all times, even when not on the clock; therefore, most of us who take our vocation of teaching very seriously, don't frequent bars at all, or very sparingly, whether it's during the day after work or at night. This way, no potential problems can arise as we've heard many stories of students approaching teachers to buy them drinks, change grades, sexual flirting issues, etc. Regardless of whether it's one drink or a teacher is drunk, our view is, if don't put yourself in these situations, then you've averted a whole host of problems. Every parent I know absolutely appreciates this, and so that's my viewpoint with eliminating alcohol at child centred establishments.

4. In direct relation to this, I am going to provide 2 scenarios here that directly use the logic that many of you rebutted to me. They directly relate to my role model comment, and the fact that many of you believe that since drinking is legal, it is totally fine to partake in it around children. Here goes:

a) An elementary school teacher takes her class to Chuck E Cheese for a special field trip during school time. The teacher subscribes to the same theory as many of you: I like to drink, so I therefore should be able to drink - never mind that my priority should be my class and this isn't the most appropriate time to do so. Alcohol is legal, and so she has 2 beers during the time her class is at Chuck E Cheese.

b) I take my high school students (ages 14-19 - some underage, some not) to Toronto or New York for a field trip (museums, galleries, theatres, etc.). Each night, we eat at a different restaurant: Hard Rock Cafe, Italian restaurant or Planet Hollywood, for example. I like to drink, so again, since alcohol is legal, I have a couple of drinks each night while I am directly supervising your children. As well, for lunch, we have picnics in the park, so since I enjoy alcohol, I pull out a bottle of wine for myself to enjoy while I am eating my lunch, again, while directly supervising your children.

I would love to hear your responses on these two scenarios as they use the same logic based on your rebuttals to me. In neither scenario do I become drunk, as I only have a few drinks in moderation. The point is though, as with Chuck E Cheese, anytime alcohol is served, you do have the potential for problems with drunkeness, etc., and being in the company of children, this would not be good. Anyway, the first one is hypothetical, but I absolutely know that the parent volunteers who accompanied this teacher would be calling our school boards within minutes of returning home to report this teacher, and would more than likely sue our board or demand for her resignation (similar situations have happened in my city). The second one has actually happened several times in my city: one teacher was suspended and demoted (was a department head), the other one was fired.

So, what are your reponses? Using your logic that alcohol in moderation is fine in children's establishments (elementary scenario), or, that responsible drinking is ok as we are all adults (high school situation), I should mostly see that you would be ok if I did this as a teacher/role model while caring for your children, based on your rationals and responses to me.

Tiger

1. Like Ms. Kreamer said, the circumstances you describe are when you are WORKING. I don't work with children and I don't drink at work, its because it is WORK.

2. If my child is in the "care" of a babysitter and they have a glass of wine, I have no problem with it.

3. There is just as much potential of having a drunk parent at Chuck E. Cheese whether or not alcohol is served there. There is nothing to keep someone from drinking at home before they go. An alcoholic is an alcoholic, if Chuck E. Cheese did not serve alcohol, it wouldn't change that fact.

4. If you feel it is wrong to drink at all around children, then don't do it. Not everyone feels the same. And you are right, I don't like my rights taken away. That is why I live in the USA.

 

[lillygator]

Tiger - your two scenarios are not LOGICAL in the sense there is no job that I know of where you can drink on the job...maybe the beer tasters or maybe that's the norm in your neck of the woods....how about two other scenarios.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

never drag Florida residents into a drinking debate. we've got 2 for 1 happy hours, $10 ladies' nights, drive-through liquor stores and weeklong beer-fueled celebrations. we use the sunsets as a reason to throw back a few, and invent celebrations throughout the year to keep the party going. our chuck e cheeses should have a cover charge.

 

[Tiger926]

I guess when you are a parent, then you're not on duty? How did I know that you were going to say that - my hubby said you would all say that too! There are many of us parents who believe that we are always on duty as parents, but most especially in child centred situations such as taking kids to Chuck E Cheese; therefore, our theory is that if there is no alcohol around it allows for more concentration on the activities at hand, as well as eliminates any problems that may come from people drinking too much and becoming beligerant in front of small children - and we've all seen that one too many times. This is entirely my point with consuming alcohol while at a child centred establishment.

It really shouldn't matter that just because I'm 'on the clock' as a teacher, that I have to be more responsible in my dealings with kids (although I do have to be extra careful because I'm watching other people's kids though) - that's creative morality - I'll use what suits me for my purposes depending upon the situation - this is an inconsistent way of thinking. We've had police officers who have been suspended for this very same thing, but they weren't fired as they were reinstated. Why? Because somehow their lawyers got around their employee policies, and the same thing has happened with teachers. Example: We had a board trustee who continually missed board meetings, and was arrested for drunk driving. She wasn't fired at all as they said the drunk driving had nothing to do with being at work (even though she got in the accident on the way to the board meeting and subsequently missed it). She also came to meetings tipsy, and they also said that this wasn't grounds to fire her. As well, we've had principals who took extended lunch hours at bars or went out golfing while they were on the clock - drank while they should have been at work, and they also were not fired. That is why some cases have been won, and some have been lost - depends on the other mitigating circumstances involved in the situation. Implied rules never stand up in court, so perhaps this is what the issue is here, but in fact, we have a joke in our school board that our unions pretty much protect anyone (teachers have gone to school drunk too) - no one is really ever fired in our board, and of the few who have over the past twenty years, several of them were reinstated and won lawsuits against my board - several of them involved alcohol as well. The point is parents are always up in arms about these types of situations (in my city anyway), but I honestly see how it's any different than you drinking in moderation as a parent at Chuck E Cheese.

I am seriously going to check on this when I go back to school on Tuesday, as perhaps there is something in a human resource policy that I am unaware of as this never pertained to me, but in regards to my actual contract, there is no wording in their whatsoever about drinking alcohol (I have it in front of me). We do make students sign no drinking contracts for proms, graduations, etc. so perhaps there is something along these lines for us teachers, but since I myself have never seen it, I'll have to check into this in our board policy handbook.

Very interesting thread - it has shown me just exactly how much of a disconnect there is between parents and teachers. It's acceptable for you to consume alcohol around kids, but not for me as a teacher, or a police officer - the circumstances of employment should not matter as that is for the school boards and police boards to handle. If I am able to drink in moderation (many of you are assuming that I think that all adults who drink are going to get drunk - I never said this at all) just like you all do when in a child centred establishment, it shouldn't matter. Now if I am breaking an employee policy that is different, as I may have broken a contract, but when speaking to parents that's never the issue that is brought up. It's the fact that parents hold us teachers in a higher moral regard because we care for their kids. I've very rarely heard parents discussing work rules - it's the role model thing and what is acceptable in my role as teacher and this is what many of us feel is a double standard, but in all honesty, we know it comes with the territory, and most teachers are fine with this.

I am proud of my role as teacher and mom, as it is one that I take very seriously, so this topic of alcohol has been very interesting to me and has definitely shown me that the gap between parents, kids and teachers just seems to keep widening when discussing topics such as alcohol, sexuality, etc!

Tiger

 

[Bob Slydell]

It really shouldn't matter that just because I'm 'on the clock' as a teacher, that I have to be more responsible in my dealings with kids (although I do have to be extra careful because I'm watching other people's kids though) - that's creative morality - I'll use what suits me for my purposes depending upon the situation - this is an inconsistent way of thinking. We've had police officers who have been suspended for this very same thing, but they weren't fired as they were reinstated. Why? Because there is nothing in their contract, just like there is nothing in my teaching contract that says I can't drink while on duty, and that is why some cases have been won, and some have been lost - depends on the other mitigating circumstances involved in the situation - one of the ones I mentioned also had inappropriate supervision with underage kids.

I'd be very surprised if there's nothing in your contract forbidding you from drinking while at work. Heck, we've got a policy at my place of employment and all I do is sit at a computer and crunch numbers. Drinking at the workplace is strictly forbidden for ALL professions, so your hypothetical examples are completely moot.

 

[Crankyshank]

Very interesting thread - it has shown me just exactly how much of a disconnect there is between parents and teachers. It's acceptable for you to consume alcohol around kids, but not for me as a teacher, or a police officer - the circumstances of employment should not matter as that is for the school boards and police boards to handle. Based on your responses though, it does show me that there are two sets of rules, and this is exactly why kids are confused - my students mention this double standard a million times a day and in all honesty, it's one of the hardest things to teach them about

I fail to see the double standard. If a teacher is escorting children as some sort of class or school related event s/he shouldn't drink because you're on the clock. Just like I can't drink during working hours and neither can most people I know. I might not have documentation specifically stating this but it's one of those implied rules.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

you seem to be assuming that the mere presence of alcohol on the menu equates to every adult walking in the door drinking to the point of not being responsible. A teacher in charge of supervising a class would be expected not to choose alcohol from the menu because that is the option that anybody "on the job" is expected to make. I don't expect a teacher to be drinking while supervising my children, I don't expect my accountant to be drinking while preparing my taxes, I don't expect the guy who is out there right now cleaning leaves out of my swimming pool to be drinking --- because I'M PAYING HIM TO WORK.

However that does NOT mean that it is the duty or the responsibility of the restaurant to remove the option of alcohol from everybody who walks in the door. Drinking is an adult activity and adults are expected to have the brains to control their own when, where, and how. The teacher is EXPECTED to exercise her own self control when she is working.

When my husband and I drive our children to restaurants or activities - we never BOTH drink because we recognize that one of us needs to be able to drive the children home. However, that does not mean that the restaurant should not be allowed to have alcohol on their menu in order to "save us" from our wanton urges. As we responsible adults, we are expected to control ourselves.

When my husband leaves on business trips and I am left as the only adult in the household - I don't drink. However that does not mean that my husband needs to remove the 6 pack of beer from the garage before he hops in the taxi. As a responsible adult I am more than capable of realizing "no, I am in charge and it is important that I don't drink" and grabbing a can of diet coke instead.

get it?

 

[dcgrumpy]

I'd be very surprised if there's nothing in your contract forbidding you from drinking while at work. Heck, we've got a policy at my place of employment and all I do is sit at a computer and crunch numbers. Drinking at the workplace is strictly forbidden for ALL professions, so your hypothetical examples are completely moot.

Same here, it wasn't in our actual contract but in our "codes of business conduct".

 

[Tiger926]

Update: You all really got me thinking about our Board Policy regarding alcohol, so I just remembered that I could check online from home at our secure website. We do have policies for students (no tolerance for alcohol or drug abuse), as well as staff. Our policy states that:

'The board prohibits usage of alcohol during working hours, and for operating board machinery, as well as reporting to work (or while at work) under the influence of alcohol or illicit drugs in which it impairs my ability to function.' It then says - and this is where our union steps in every single time (see above) - 'When an employee is in violation of board policy, they must be approached about it by a principal or supervisor, factors will always be considered in regards to degree of intoxication, repitition of offence, involvement in an accident, and the exposure to students and the public and any other relevant facts.'

Totally open ended so that each individual case is looked at differently. I guess that's why the above cases that I mentioned have been dealt with in this manner. In the first part it states that no one should drink alcohol during working hours, but then down below it says only if it impairs my function. Hmm??? I guess that's why my union and defense attorneys are able to get around these policies. Kind of seems problematic to me in that then you have lawyers comparing degrees of intoxication and impairment. I guess that's how the board trustee and principals got around it as perhaps their functions weren't impaired, but they were drinking during working hours, so I am not sure about this.

Anyway, my scenarios are not useable as you all mentioned as they would be considered work hours and so that would supercede the other factors we have been discussing. I was more comparing it to me as person of responsibility of teacher in charge of kids, and you as parents in the same situations, but the work policy would overrule that. I guess it does show me though that our board's policy isn't that specific, which I guess is why parents have been upset in the past.

Thanks for your discussions, Tiger

 

[eclectics]

Tiger - your two scenarios are not LOGICAL in the sense there is no job that I know of where you can drink on the job...maybe the beer tasters or maybe that's the norm in your neck of the woods....how about two other scenarios.

Even most Bartenders are not allowed to drink while on their shift.

 

[Bumbles]

I guess when you are a parent, then you're not on duty? How did I know that you were going to say that - my hubby said you would all say that too!

After reading this and seeing just how illogical your arguments are and how I'm cracking up, can you or your hubby know what I'm going to say now?

I mean, after all, you clearly have all of us pegged as unfit, alcoholic parents and your powers of being able to read our minds astound me.

But I guess the minds of unfit alcoholic parents are probably pretty transparent to those that are on a higher plane of righteousness than we are

 

[yeartolate]

I would just like to add that if I am in a school district that allows an elemetary school field trip to Chuckee Cheeses.......I probably have alot more problems with the school than a child being exposed to an adult drinking alcohol.

 

[cardaway]

I have always wondered what the point of having an age limit on bars is when so many places sell alcohol and do very little to restrict access of the drinks they serve after they serve them. Mostly this thinking came from my late teens and year 20 when I wanted to get into bars to see bands and play in dart tournements.

Can't blame them for wanting to serve their customers. It still makes no sense to me why alcohol is so easy to get given all the worry over other drugs (I say legalize them all) but given the current set up, it makes sense.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Just as Toby's Friens said, we never BOTH drink when we are with our child. Heck since I seem to be perpetually pregnant or nursing lately I am not even the one drinking. However, I really don't see the huge deal with serving BEER and WINE at CEC....it's not like they have a happy hour or they have Chuck E himself walking around giving out jello and body shots, for crying out loud!

 

[Aidensmom]

it's not like they have a happy hour or they have Chuck E himself walking around giving out jello and body shots, for crying out loud!

Now THAT would be an interesting Chuck E. Cheese!

 

[lilprincessnbuzz]

I guess when you are a parent, then you're not on duty? How did I know that you were going to say that - my hubby said you would all say that too! There are many of us parents who believe that we are always on duty as parents, but most especially in child centred situations such as taking kids to Chuck E Cheese; therefore, our theory is that if there is no alcohol around it allows for more concentration on the activities at hand, as well as eliminates any problems that may come from people drinking too much and becoming beligerant in front of small children - and we've all seen that one too many times. This is entirely my point with consuming alcohol while at a child centred establishment.

I'm wondering if you have NEVER had a drink since your children were born? Because you are always on duty?

I think that parents are responsible enough to decide if they want to have a glass of wine or beer whether they are at CEC, Disney World, BBQ's, family gatherings, or where ever alcohol is served.

I have seen belligerent people who have had nothing to drink, and I have never seen a belligerent person at CEC. (other than those mechanical band members )

I really don't see what the problem is. We are preparing for our neighborhood Easter egg hunt, one neighbor told me she bought plastic wine glasses incase someone wants a glass of wine. We have the best neighborhood, our children will have wonderful memories of all of our block parties, they know ALL the neighbors by name and we always have beer or wine at the parties. Is the wine and beer necessary? NO, but we are adults and are allowed if we choose.

I think that parents can over protect their children. Alcohol won't be such a taboo subject if kids see adults drink it responibly. My experience has been that children whose familes never drank and criticized those that did usually had the children who were out of control with alcohol later.

Ok, I'm off of my soap box now.

 

[Tiger926]

Bumbles - I just reread all of my posts in order as I'm home on holiday today, and I never once said that parents who drink are unfit at all. I answered the original question of whether or not I think that alcohol should be served at Chuck E Cheese or other child centred establishments, and I answered no. I guess I can see how some of you may have inferred this, but I was only speaking about Chuck E Cheese. Just because my hubby and I prefer not to drink as we don't think it's a worthwhile activity for us, doesn't mean we are saying that those of you who do are unfit. If I had said that alcohol should be banned everywhere, no matter what the circumstances, then you could say that I was illogical and totally out of line, but that wasn't the case. I already apologized for the error I made with the teacher scenarios as well, by the way.

I never referenced serving alcohol at bars or other restaurants at all. It's not my place to determine that alcohol should be banned everywhere, as this was never my argument at all. That's totally ridiculous! My main concern as with the OP, is serving it at child centred establishments only. The Magic Kingdom is a perfect example of this - Disney would make millions of dollars a year by serving alcohol in MK - why do you think they don't? Probably for all of the reasons that I mentioned - I'm sure Disney and I share similar viewpoints here. In this case, the greater good of kids is of utmost importance, and they are losing millions of dollars in the process - good for them!

My premise is not that all adults who go to Chuck E Cheese are going to get drunk at all, but that if the alcohol isn't there, then you avoid any potential problems that may creep up from beligerent patrons, servers having to cut parents off, underage people trying to get served, young kids drinking from cups that are left on the tables, etc. Sure most of you are probably very responsible in your alcohol consumption, but many are not, so why not save that for places that aren't filled with young kids? This may seem negative to some people, but adults prove to me on a daily basis that they are irresponsible and unable to act appropriately in front of children at times, so this is my fear with serving alcohol at child centred places of business. Sorry if it means that I want to remove your right to choose whether or not you drink, but you can drink as soon as you return home, or at your neighborhood bar or local restaurant - ensuring a positive environment for kids is most important here. As I said, we have very strict alcohol and smoking rules for kids in my city as they are not even allowed into restaurants that serve alcohol or smoking in my city after 8:00 pm - there are no exceptions, period.

Also, to those people who feel that my daughter is at a disadvantage because we don't drink, and therefore she won't see alcohol and know how to drink it responsibly, that's a silly argument. So, did your parents perform sex acts in front of you to ensure that you would do it responsibly as you got older? Give me a break! Sorry if I offended anyone with this statement, but this has come up several times on this thread, and it really is a silly premise.

In regards to the info I provided about my students, some of them are alcoholics, as are their parents, but most of them are probably just like your kids, and they continually tell me that they drink underage because alcohol is no big deal as they've been around it since they were babies at places like Chuck E Cheese, kids birthday parties, baptisms, bowling, etc., and that is why it's no big deal to them. Again, I'm not talking about the alcoholic families, but regular families like yours - as an educator I have to take this very seriously, so regardless of whether or not you all agree with my students, they are telling me and consequently you as parents, that seeing alcohol served at all functions has made them equate it with being a required part of society and in fact, many of them say that if they didn't drink, they'd be teased and made fun of.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic as I really think the whole issue comes down to removal of rights, which I know is central to being an American. For me, and most other people I know, we don't mind sacrificing or giving up rights here or there if it benefits a greater good and so I'm pretty confident that most of my friends/family who consume alcohol would have no problem in not drinking a beer while playing with their kids at Chuck E Cheese.

Thanks for the discussion, but my head hurts - LOL!, so my time here is done!

Tiger

P.S. Someone just asked if I've never had a drink while my child has been born. 1) I've never had a drink of alcohol in my lifetime ever (this is a choice I've made for me), and 2) I never said that parents couldn't drink at all because they are on duty, I referenced in a child centred situation such as Chuck E Cheese, they would be on duty just as I would be as a teacher. I already apologized for the error I made with this scenario, so my comparison to being on duty wouldn't work here.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Bumbles - I just reread all of my posts in order as I'm home on holiday today, and I never once said that parents who drink are unfit at all.

nah, you just called us bad role models who are unable to go even one hour without having a beer, who are driving our kids to drink because of the examples we set -- oh and we don't listen to our children which is why they need to turn to their caffeine/nicotine/alcohol free teacher to be the one and only best role model in their lives.

And you wonder why you see a "disconnect" between you and the parents of the kids you teach? If you want my honest opinion, if you present anywhere near the "Morally Superior" attitude with them that you have to the people here, it is because they don't like you.

these are just a few of YOUR quotes which I was able to pull in a couple of minutes of searching in which you have supported the I'm good/you are bad attitude on this thread. I have a feeling that if I searched harder, the list would be bigger.

I subscribe to the theory that adults need to be good role models at all times, and so not being able to get by for an hour at Chuck E Cheese without having a drink is not a good role model in my book!

Again, not being able to get by for an hour at Chuck E Cheeses without consuming alcohol is not positive modelling, IMHO.

I do have very strong beliefs about what makes a good parent or good role model , and drinking is not one of them.

Again, many of you are missing the boat when it comes to teens. My students continually tell me that I have had more positive influence on them than anyone else in their lives - despite what some of you may think, I don't judge them, and I don't lecture.

It's amazing to me that some of you are arguing with me when what I am presenting is straight from the horse's mouths - most of them tell me that their parents were the ones who influenced their beliefs on alcohol and continue to do so. This is exactly why my kids have problems with their parents, as they say they don't listen!

 

[epcotfan]

ITA, I've never worked at any job where you could drink while on duty

Ditto.