Air Canada

[TimNDansMom]

Janet I think this story in the Toronto Star will help explain what is going on with Air Canada

I don't think you have to worry about anything for your Easter trip!

 

[Scratch42]

I heard something about this but my brain is strictly on

DISNEY!LOL

I'M GOING TO DISNEYWORLD!

Even if I have to WALK there!

They don't want to deal with me at this point and time!



Scratch

 

[SKFamily]

You're fine for an Easter trip. They are protected until April 15th and if they get you there, someone has to get you home I would think.

My TA says anything can happen at this point. It's "wait and see" until April 15th. If they liquidate then we get our money back. Apparently if they find another investor or are given another extension (which is the recommendation of Ernst and Young who is handling this) then it's business as usual until someone says otherwise. And I was just reading the latest thingy from E&Y, and they are recommending a reasonably lenghty extension to allow AC to benefit from their busy season, basically. That's what I gleamed from it, anyway.

 

[Scratch42]

DISNEYWORLD!

I would just move into the Castle! It's been my dream anyways!LOL

Scratch

 

[TimNDansMom]

I wonder how Aeroplan fits in with all of this. We have enough miles for a ticket to Hawaii, I'd hate to lose! We keep talking about another trip back to there but those darn frequent trips to Disney keep getting in the way!

That's what I always say Janet! "Just get me there!" LOL

 

[SKFamily]

I think the recommendation is to use Aeroplans ASAP on one of the other airlines that recognizes them. And get a paper ticket.

No matter how this all turns out, in the future I will not book with an airline that is walking such a fine line with financial disaster. The travel agency advised us today not to finish paying for the trip until the last possible minute. Because at this point "anything can happen". Yes we would get our money back, but if all that's tied up is our deposit we can possibly re-book the trip with another airline as soon as Air Canada's liquidation starts. (yeah, right --- if we can get on the phone fast enough!)

And on another note...

I phoned AC this morning with a question that had nothing to do with whether or not they will still be in the air when our trip is planned. As soon as I asked my question, the woman who answered the phone was incredibly rude and condescending. Stress or not, attitude like that over the phone isn't going to help their situation any - it will only cost them customers.

 

[madonna31]

Wow...I guess I'm the only one who will be EXTREMELLY upset if Air Canada does go...

We were stranded on the way back from the Orlando airport on a trip to WDW for 14 HOURS (from 8:00AM to 10:30PM) because our plane coming in from Toronto (Royal Airlines) was 'delayed' by a few hours at a time...

It wasn't so bad for us - we just spent 2 weeks in WDW and we were heading home. I felt bad for those coming INTO Orlando from TO - they had been at the Toronto airport since 5:00AM...what a horrible way to start a vacation.

You want to talk about bad customer service? They would not put us up in a hotel - so we spent our entire day in the Orlando airport. They gave us nothing more then $15 food vouchers. Since they already checked our luggage; we couldn't get to it. I was cold and had to purchase a sweatshirt and my mother was unable to get her medication from her suitcase...it was just horrible.

I vowed to NEVER, EVER go charter again. National carriers (such as Air Canada) have another plane coming right behind should yours have a problem...since then - I've taken Air Canada EVERY time and NEVER had a problem...but hey that's just me.

That charter has now gone bankrupt - big surprise there. My point is...based on the fact that if your airplane is delayed on a national carrier, your usually up in the air on another one of their planes within the hour. Since charter flights only have one flight per destination, they can not do this.

 

[Amberle3]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'll also be extremely unhappy if AC goes under. Aside from the major headaches it will also mean the loss of Canada's only true coast-to-coast carrier.

I got this email from ACTA this morning:
"The Association of Canadian Travel Agencies (ACTA) would like to assure its members and consumers that it has been monitoring very closely the evolving situation at Air Canada and that there is no reason to spread uncertainty and fear amongst the traveling public. ACTA has been meeting regularly with senior officials at Air Canada and other key stakeholders and believes that the present situation may be cause for some concern but no apparent imminent threat to travelers.

According to Air Canada’s own statements, the company continues to operate normally and its “2004 revenues are tracking in line with what we projected in our business plan last October.” Air Canada goes on to state that: “Our cash balances are healthy, with current cash balance at $910M in addition to approximately half a billion dollars in available credit.” Air Canada also confirms the present business trend in that advance bookings are up, and this is consistent with feedback we hear from our travel agency members across Canada."

There's more, but that's pretty much the gist of it. Basically don't panic, somehow things will work themselves out.

And yes, this is a MUCH better situation then when the charters (Royal and Canada3000) went under.

 

[SKFamily]

I'll be upset, too. It is our only National carrier and would only add to the concerns our country has right now. Yes, other airlines would pick up the flights, but they wouldn't necessarily be Canadian based, would they? Of course my immediate concern right now is very selfish - our very first, at one time only a dream, trip to Disneyland in July. Beyond that, though, I have concerns about the state our country is in with all of the "potential disasters" going on. (Mad Cow, Avian Flu, the sponsorship scandal... the very fact that Air Canada is in trouble just adds to the list) There's what? something like 30,000 people whose jobs rely on this, there has to be a solution somewhere.

As for our trip itself - I've read similar reports on the internet to what Amberle just posted and have hopes that things will work out.

 

[mom_rules]

Scratch- Don't worry-be happy! At least we'll get to WDW.

We may not get home (we're not due back until the 18th)-but we'll get there!!

 

[madonna31]

Of course my immediate concern right now is very selfish - our very first, at one time only a dream, trip to Disneyland in July.

But you WILL be going to DL, regardless of what happens to Air Canada - so don't worry!!

Beyond that, though, I have concerns about the state our country is in with all of the "potential disasters" going on. (Mad Cow, Avian Flu, the sponsorship scandal... the very fact that Air Canada is in trouble just adds to the list)

Your 100% right and I guess this is exactly what bothers me about travel agents saying "Don't fly Air Canada".

I mean that to me is just as bad as people in Canada who avoided the city of Toronto when tourism was needed the most ever because of the SARS outbreak, or as bad as the American's who won't buy our beef because of Mad Cow.

It just upsets me that when something Canadian such as Air Canada needs our support more then ever - some are so quick to 'turn against' them and say "Don't fly Air Canada" ...

 

[mom_rules]

You're right-We flew AC last April when all this first started. We were a little concerned but didn't have any problems. We also spent the night in Toronto when the WHO issued the Toronto travel advisory (got a great rate on our hotel). Not one mask in sight in the entire area we stayed and the only mask we saw was an oxygen mask on a 90 year old women in a wheelchair at the airport. A lot of ta-do!
Now a new AC rumour bout and all those chicken being slaughtered in BC-come on-don't we Canadians deserve a break?

 

[madonna31]

Nope - no one dying in the streets or wearing masks here in TO like the disaster city the media made it out to be...

What was sad is people that lived here were just as bad.

My DH and I had a 2 week planned trip to WDW aboard (none other then) Air Canada when the whole SARS outbreak started. My SIL was 'appalled' that we were still going to WDW and 'disgusted with us for not at least wearing a mask aboard the plane.

We sure do deserve a break and that's why it bothers me when the people of our own country are not even supporting us.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

1) Article in today's National Post has clarified that the Travel Agents fund has nothing to do with the airlines. If AC is liquidated, there is no guarantee that you will get your money back -- even if you booked with a TA. The emergency fund is to reimburse customers if the TA goes bankrupt.

2) There are still passengers waiting to receive reimbursement from when Canada 3000 was liquidated in November 2001.

3) Keeping all this in mind, I won't be making any discretionary air travel reservations with AC. British Airways will get my business for a September trip to Great Britain.

4) Aeroplan is a separate corporate entity from Air Canada and is not under bankruptcy protection. Aeroplan points are also valid for travel on Star Alliance partners such as Varig, Thai, United, SAS and British Midlands.

 

[SKFamily]

So what are we supposed to do? At this point it's only the deposit - we can re-save that. But the trip has to be paid for by May 25th. I don't want to take the chance that the entire cost of the booking could be gone...

The TA told me yesterday that if AC goes under, we would get our money back. I wondered about the time frame, though. Now I know.... don't go against gut instinct. I asked the TA when I booked if AC was safe; she said yes, she's seen this before. I still wasn't completely comfortable with it, but dh wanted the direct flight. Next time we go with instinct.

I'm very tempted to just eat the deposit, cancel that booking and do it again with another airline.

 

[Amberle3]

Originally posted by SKFamily
So what are we supposed to do? At this point it's only the deposit - we can re-save that. But the trip has to be paid for by May 25th. I don't want to take the chance that the entire cost of the booking could be gone...

Well, the picture on what's going on with Air Canada will be a whole lot clearer by May 25 for one thing.

For another this is one of the things that having code-share partners is all about. If AC goes under I'm sure that UA will pick up those passengers booked on routes to/from the US. You might get your flight times changed, but I'm sure they'll get you on a flight.

Half the time I take an AC flight to the US it ends up being a UA plane anyway.

Frankly I'd have more faith booking it with AC than NW.

 

[SKFamily]

When I really thought about this last night, I realized two things:

1) I already spoke with our TA and was assured that yes, we would get our money back. She said it would be the same as when Canada 3000 went under - everyone who had booked through them was refunded ASAP. The article in the National Post doesn't apply to all agencies apparently. Plus I just heard on the morning news that flights booked through a TA would be refunded, flight booked online (travelocity, expedia) would not.

2) We bought the TA's cancellation insurance, which the TA said at the time covers almost anything, including change in financial status or sick kids who can't travel. Plus we paid by credit card, so we are covered every way we can be. I just don't want to put the trip off, lol.

And like Amberle said, by May 25 the picture will be a lot clearer. We can have a good look at the situation then, talk to the TA and decide what to do just before that. And in the mean time we keep our fingers crossed. Ernst & Young who are handling the bankruptcy are still saying the airline has enough cash to operate for several more months and more $$ coming in with the busy season, so we'll just hope their "several months" covers our trip.

 

[mom_rules]

What date have they given as D-Day April 15 or April 30th?

 

[RoyalCanadian]

April 15 is the most recent AC deadline.

As for codeshare partners picking up AC flights -- I wouldn't count on it. Such things have to be negotiated through the federal government, and they are not eager to give carte blanche to foreign owned airlines flying Canadian owned routes. It would be a nightmare getting the foreign airlines to give up those routes later on.

As for cancellation insurance -- read the fine print and make sure that airline liquidation/bankruptcy is covered.

 

[SKFamily]

April 15th is the closest deadline, they have requested an extension to May 14th. Whether or not that will be granted is up to the judge. The Monitor is recommending that an extension be granted, and AC be given sufficient time to straighten things out in light of Trinity backing out. At this point, nobody can guess on what's going to happen. One person says one thing, someone else says the opposite. (Airline analysts vs. Air Canada) Probably the person who has the best idea of how long AC will be in the air is the judge, and even he can't make a final decision until at least April 15th.

I don't have our stuff from the TA yet, but I just asked on Monday and was assured we are covered if AC goes under. I've been told that by two different agents with that agency, so I'm assuming they know their policies since they've dealt with bankrupt airlines before. (Canada 3000, Royal) When I get the package I will go through it to see what options are available to us if things aren't looking up by May 25th.

As far as other airlines picking it up - I have no idea on that but it isn't something I'm counting on. That would be just way too simple of a solution in my experience.. (when things go wrong around here, they tend to go really wrong...)