Air Canada

[Amberle3]

Thought I'd just pass on two things I learned today:

Delta Airlines is also is major trouble (not meant to worry anyone) and is 20 BILLION dollars in debt. Makes AC's 9 Billion dollar debt look pretty good!

And this little tidbit from a travel lawyer, pertaining to US carrier bankruptcies:
"As in all airline bankruptcies, DOT issues an order to other airlines requiring them to carry the bankrupt airline's pax on a space-available basis for $25."

I suspect that since any Air Canada transborder flight is a code-share with United, that United would then be responsible for having to accommodate the passengers.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Originally posted by Amberle3
Thought I'd just pass on two things I learned today:

I suspect that since any Air Canada transborder flight is a code-share with United, that United would then be responsible for having to accommodate the passengers.

Bearing in mind that it requires a United Airlines plane already flying into YWG. I'm not familiar with how many of those codeshare flights are on UA metal, but one must not necessarily assume that, in the event of the liquidation of AC, UA will be allowed by Transport Canada to fly extra flights in and out of Canadian airports.
I'm hoping against hope that the unions will see the writing on the wall -- Victor Li is the only one with any interest in putting any money on the table. (Gerry Schwartz of Onex is on the record as saying that $27.95 is about all he's willing to invest in Air Canada these days.) If the unions are not willing to give the concessions required there will be no money and, therefore, no jobs.

 

[robsawatsky]

Under the "Open Skies" agreement with the US, US air carriers can fly as much as they want between Canada and the USA - so no problem there in quickly picking up any transborder slack. The issue is whether they will honour an AC ticket!? Not necessarily so.

And, I don't for a minute believe the federal gov't will provide any direct funding to AC. They have recently announced plans that will assist all Canadian air carriers with proposals at the cabinet level to:

1. Reduce air fuel taxes.
2. Reduce airport rent (and subsequently the fees airports charge to airlines).
3. Reduce airport security fee.
4. Raise foreign investment limit on Canadian airline co's to 49% from the current 25%.

Previously, there was discussion with Transport Canada and other Canadian airlines to operate domestic flights using aircraft/crew wet-leased from US carriers but operating under their license (i.e. Westjet ticket but perhaps a Southwest plane and crew).

 

[c&m]

I agree with robsawatsky...the federal gov't hasn't made a move yet to step in and I doubt it will.

AC had a chance to get bought by a major mover-and-shaker -- Victor Li, son of tycoon Li Kai Shing -- and regain some sort of stability. However, the unions thwarted the buyout, and Victor walked away. Too bad.

We typically fly Alaska Air to LAX. Great airline, friendly service, and food service. On our last flight to DL in mid-March, an Alaska Air stewardess walked a fussy baby up and down the aisle. We were all thoroughly impressed.

Last time I flew AC, I had a pillow thrown at me by a stewardess. My crime??? I asked for one! LOL!!!

 

[mom_rules]

Our flight with AC a couple of weeks ago was on a UA plane. Excellent flight, flight attendents were great-and believe it or not the food was wonderful-chicken breast, mushroom gravy, rice, three bean salad and a brownie. Although there were storms in the area our pilot managed to avoid most of the turbulence and the landing was second to none.
Sure hope they hang in there!

 

[jaysue]

Originally posted by c&m
I agree with robsawatsky...the federal gov't hasn't made a move yet to step in and I doubt it will.

AC had a chance to get bought by a major mover-and-shaker -- Victor Li, son of tycoon Li Kai Shing -- and regain some sort of stability. However, the unions thwarted the buyout, and Victor walked away. Too bad.

We typically fly Alaska Air to LAX. Great airline, friendly service, and food service. On our last flight to DL in mid-March, an Alaska Air stewardess walked a fussy baby up and down the aisle. We were all thoroughly impressed.

Last time I flew AC, I had a pillow thrown at me by a stewardess. My crime??? I asked for one! LOL!!!

I would not entirely blame the unions - when Victor put his offer on the table, pensions were not mentioned or discussed so from one perspective, he tried to game the deal in the late innings. Lets spread some blame to Milton and co. for trying to get $20MM in bonuses for bringing the airline out of restructuring when they were the ones who led Air Canada in

It takes 2 to tango! (no bad joke re Tango brand intended)

thanks
jaysue

 

[WCMouse]

I know this is not the debate board and that is not my intention. I like many of you do not want to see AC go down. I, also like many of you, have had some not so pleasant experiences with other carriers. As well, I like some of you have had terrible experiences with AC.

It is true that we do not want to lose something "Canadian", like Air Canada, but in my opnion more often than not, their attitute, service and comittment to their passengers has been anything but "Canadian".

I know, I know, the 10's of times I have flown with AC and had bad experiences are just unlucky coincidences, and the times I have flown non AC and had good experiences are just luck, but there comes a time when enough is enough. In my opinion, AC has not represented "Canadians" well enough. With diminshing routes, service at times sub-par and general attitude that "We are Canada's only airline so what can anyone do to us" has brought them their own misfortune.

Sure, they are going to blame 9/11 for the slow down, and that is most definately a factor, but there are still many thousands of passengers after 9/11 and instead of trying to entice to continue to fly they have just given up and said, well things are slow and there is nothing we can do.

AC is in the service industry, and there service to towards their passengers, you and I, has not been that great.

For those you you will continue to fly AC great. For those of you who will not, perfectly fine and for those of you like me, who see AC as a last resort.. then that is how it will be.

I hope I did not upset anyone too much... I just feel AC could have done a better job of this, starting a long time ago....

 

[FatCow]

Yup! Without fail, everytime I flew with AC, I always experienced flight delays with the minimum of 30 minutes up to 80 minutes... on the plane!

Also, AC counter is also the worst. Bazillion passengers flying on 3 different AC flights, during rush hour, and only one counter open? That's nutso!

I flew with Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Japan Air Lines, Garuda Indonesia, Quantas, KLM, British Airways, never anything that nutty ever happened (and I used to fly 6 times a year around the world).

... and they're wondering why don't more people fly AC

 

[SKFamily]

Well, here's some hope for our trip:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=aEc0KsusA2wE&refer=canada

Of course one stipulation is that the airline meets the wage cost savings specified. I read in another article that this deal would leave the pensions intact as they are, which was one of the union's biggest complaints about the Li deal, supposedly. Now, whether or not the union will be willing to agree to any further concessions is yet to be seen... one union head says this might be the deal they're looking for.

They're back in court today apparently.... keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[SKFamily]

BTW - I recently called customer service at AC and was greeted with nothing but friendliness and co-operation. (I was setting up "meet and assist" at the airports) When I mentioned my previous phone call to them and the snotty, condescending response I got, the service person's reply was "that shouldn't be happening... no matter how much stress the employee is under. If it happens again, get the employee's name and file a complaint immediately."


For those of you who have experienced large numbers of problems or continual problems, what happens when you file a complaint?

 

[madonna31]

Yup! Without fail, everytime I flew with AC, I always experienced flight delays with the minimum of 30 minutes up to 80 minutes... on the plane!

I guess it boils down to personal experience, because I have YET to have had a problem with AC, yet have had several problems with some of those other airlines you mentioned.

Also, AC counter is also the worst. Bazillion passengers flying on 3 different AC flights, during rush hour, and only one counter open? That's nutso!

What are you talking about?!? Umm...try 'Express Check In'; AC is actually the ONLY airline at the Toronto airport that has it...use it!!!

For those of you who have experienced large numbers of problems or continual problems, what happens when you file a complaint?

lol...Air Canada sure 'aint Walt Disney World...I can guarantee you that you won't get 'free tickets'

 

[WCMouse]

The express check-in may be available in TO, but out here on the West Coast, there is not such a thing. One very long for all of the Alliance members to check-in at. Thus using the express check-in is just not an option... I can only blame that on AC, and no one else.

madonna31, it sounds great that you have hd no bad experiences with AC, thus I am sure you will continue to use them. I like many others have not and will continue not to use them...

 

[FatCow]

I'm talking about AC counter at the MCO. 3 flights, rush hour, only one counter opened.

Express check-in, wasn't available several years ago and last month (and the month before that), I had the 'bad luck' of having not a single express check-in work at all during the last two trips (I arrived at the airport around 4:30am for check-in for both flights).

 

[bunnyfoo]

Originally posted by madonna31
What are you talking about?!? Umm...try 'Express Check In'; AC is actually the ONLY airline at the Toronto airport that has it...use it!!!

I used the Express Check In for the first time last December. I was really hesitant but the check in line was so long, I figured I had nothing to lose. I was surprised by how easy it was to use... it also let's you switch seats (if there are still unclaimed seats on the flight) and there's always an Air Canada employee around to help out On the way back, I was standing in line at MCO and wishing they had the same system in place

Actually, the only delays I've experienced are at Pearson airport when I go through security. For some reason, I always get my bags x-rayed and then searched My friends say that never happens to them, they just have to stand in line for the metal detector. I guess I probably look suspicious ...

 

[SKFamily]

Air Canada sure 'aint Walt Disney World...I can guarantee you that you won't get 'free tickets'

Not what I had in mind, actually. I'm just wondering what sort of response a complaint about persistent bad service or flight delays would get. I had to complain about bad service with Canadian years ago, and got a written apology and quite a few free Airmiles (or whatever they were 12 years ago). Never had an opportunity to use them, but at least Canadian acknowledged that the service had been sub-standard. The written apology went a lot further with me than anything free, including air miles I couldn't use.

 

[madonna31]

madonna31, it sounds great that you have hd no bad experiences with AC, thus I am sure you will continue to use them.

Your 100% correct, I have NEVER had a bad experience with AC - only with other airlines mentioned.

I like many others have not and will continue not to use them

And in the same token - I have NEVER had a client complain about using AC...

So...like I said in my earlier post - it all boils down to PERSONAL experience. We agree to disagree.

I'm talking about AC counter at the MCO. 3 flights, rush hour, only one counter opened.

Actually - since United and AC are together, you may be seeing the Express Check in for AC very soon at MCO.

Not what I had in mind, actually.

I know you didn't. It was a joke, that's why I used the smiley. Obviously not a good one. Sorry, forget I said anything.

 

[SKFamily]

Madonna, I knew you were kidding. (I like that little guy...)

I just realize that for some people the only reason to complain is to try to get something for free, and for some others they don't complain to the people who could actually do something. I was just curious as to how AC handles complaints about stuff like that. Do they tend to take it seriously or sluff it off? Canadian obviously took my complaint fairly seriously at the time. Like I said they apologized in writing and now that I think about it, someone phoned after I got home to make sure our return trip was better than the departure trip. Which it was - wow! (I was travelling alone with a 1 1/2 year old, had requested meet and assist which didn't happen on the departure trip. The complaint was done while I was away, and on the trip home I even had someone push the stroller and carry the diaper bag through the airport for me. All I had to carry was my purse until we met up with my parents, who were picking us up. )

I'm really hoping our AC trip this summer is like yours have been. I think they have the Express Check in Calgary, I'm hoping we can use it - I'm not sure with the meet and assist, though. I figure any company is prone to problems at some point, and I can tolerate a certain amount of them. Even if there is a delay, it depends on how they handle it, KWIM?

 

[madonna31]

SKFam - have you ever flown Air Canada before?!?

 

[SKFamily]

No... Something I should be aware of? I flew Canadian Airlines from Calgary to Honolulu 12 years ago, that's been my only major flight.

 

[madonna31]

No... Something I should be aware of?

Just to make certain that you use the handsoap in the washroom...it's orange/canteloupe flavour and smells yummy!

In all seriousness, I just want you to know that I do think your experience with AC this summer will be just fine. Your right; ANY company IS prone to problems and it does depend on how they handle it in order for their customer to decide wheather or not they will use them again.

Everything is going to be just fine and then you will come back here after your trip and be the only other poster on this thread that likes AC besides me.