agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[kaytieeldr]

One thing I would like to see is to have the jury duty process be better... for everyone.

So I went and we sat around for an hour or two in a holding room. Then we watched a really boring video. Then we sat around for 30 more min. (ok so we could have just came in an hour and 1/2 later and watched the video right away and been all set) They need the jurors there before court goes into session - it may be in part to prevent chance encounters with the persons being tried, witnesses, etc., who will be entering the court during normal court hours.

Then we all go up to the courtroom. The judge tells us a bit about the case and reads a LONG list of people that may be involved and asks if we know any of them as well as some other general questions. This couldn't be done by mailing a paper with the list then asking the questions and having a few lines to explain? Do you really think that's the most effective method? People forget altogether, people lie better on paper than in person... they need us IN the courtroom answering the questions verbally. There are valid reasons for the entire process.

This way everyone can get there and start right at the groups of 12 goign in for questioning by the lawyers part. The extra few hours that some people wouldn't need health care, were able to go to work, etc could make a big difference. I normally work 6:30-3:30 so if I didn't have to come in until 10 I could work almost half my day and maybe make up some time at the end too.

Think about it. You get up, prepare, get dressed, go to work (traffic, public transit, bike, walk, whatever - it's different for everyone). You get to work. You start working. Then do you really think it's realisitic that every person assigned to jury duty that day - who likely live within reasonable distance of the courthouse - would be able to stop working, turn around, go back "home" from wherever they work, arrive on time...? And the people with medical appointments - is that what you mean by 'need health care'? - shouldn't be making appointments for jury duty day anyway.

Jury duty isn't supposed to be for the convenience of us. It's meant to provide defendents in a trial with a fair and impartial decision based on all the evidence presented.

 

[whjoyjr]

I'm amazed at the number of people who refuse to serve and use all the excuses they can to avoid it. If we did not have jury pools than we would never be able to convict many individuals.

Uh, wow...

Does accused = guilty in your opinion?

 

[jodifla]

Sorry, no sympathy here.

Jury duty is a civic responsibility, and I don't see that being a SAHM (or a working mom, or a person for whom it'd be inconvenient to miss work, etc.) should excuse a person from that responsibility. When I've had jury duty, I've had several weeks' notice -- that should be enough time to arrange for a friend to care for the children, especially since it isn't even a full work day. You're talking about a couple days, not a full-fledged job.

How many people fought to earn women the right to own property, to vote, to work -- in short, to have choices. Do we really want to fall back on the "but I'm a mama" excuse when something's inconvenient?

Yes, exactly this.

I can't believe that so many people use childcare as an excuse. But you see that trend among women...the belief that only they can watch their children.

 

[sl_underwood]

OP- I did not read through the whole thread but I definitely sympathize with your situation. I also have a special needs child and there is NO ONE to care for him. People who do not have special needs children have no clue how hard it is to find caregivers. It is easy to say find a sitter, but until you have been there, please dont judge. It is definitely anything but easy. I do hope you manage to figure it all out.

 

[jodifla]

I received jury duty notice, and sent in my regular excuse--non-employed, caring for 3 small children. I was told by the clerk that this is not an excuse in federal court. I am awaiting response to a letter I sent to court, explaining that my baby is receiving services for developmental delays and a parent (not a babysitter) must be present for the instructors to come to our home.

If I go, DH will have to take the day off of work (we're living on one income), and if I get chosen to serve, it will cost me a lot for childcare! Anyone ever experience this, and any advice?

Please note: I do believe in jury duty and will gladly serve--when my youngest is in school full time!

Your child missing one or two days of therapy is not going to make that big of a difference. I know, having a child whose been down the therapy route.

And this would be a good time for you to develop a list of sitters for all kinds of emergencies...or just a date night with your husband.

 

[angwill]

Or - based on years of reading the DIS forums - the potential jurors with childcare issues not knowing/trusting even bonded or certified child care persons on such a list, or being unwilling to leave their children with anyone they don't know,,, yet, based on this thread and others, not being able (willing?) to get to know people whom they'd trust with their children for geographic or other reasons.

I am the one with geographic issues and new to a small town when I had issues getting childcare for jury duty. I would have gladly called a bonded or certified child care person if given a list. Sorry if that goes against your assumptions of people you assume you know on the Dis.

 

[eyor44]

Not a popular choice, but tell them you fully believe in the death penalty. No defending lawyer wants to hear that.

I would love to be picked but the one and only time, 22 years ago I received a card, I was a SAHM and was caring for my neice also while my DB was out of town. I was excused. DH has done a couple of very interesting cases I would have loved to of been there for.

 

[Michelle and crew]

I honestly still cannot believe how many people keep using childcare as an excuse. As a single parent I always know who can watch my children should the need arise. I was a single parent on Active Duty Army and my mother gave up everything and moved here to help in case I needed her help with my child (only one at the time and I was dual military with my now ex in korea). There were many times when she was taking my child(ren) to the doctor as my bosses did not like me missing work. If my child(ren) had shots than she kept them so they would not have to go back to the daycare. Even before she moved here and when I was station in Washington State I had the daycare center and extra people set as backup sitters since the daycare would not take a sick child. Why wait to find someone when you could research and know beforehand who could possibly take your child(ren)?? I just don't get this. Oh and my youngest never went to daycare but if I needed someone to watch her I had several people available to help me out. My friends and family also worked but they helped make it all work out.

There are many courts and judges (we have a female judge here as well) that will not let you off because of being a parent. What would you say if a man were requesting to not do jury duty because he is a sahd?? I don't think too many would feel the same way and some might even claim the man was just using it as an excuse. It is time to step up and do your duty when called upon unless you have a truely valid reason that you can show the court proof of (ex. medical disability/illness, child with severe disability, etc)

what a sexist comment. nice. If people like you would quit making this us against them and get the fact that some people do not have childcare this would make it a whole lot easier to find ways to work things out.

It is amazing how many people are willing to "assume" about the lives of others. If you haven't lived it your opinion is based on nothing speculation from the outside. That would be like me assuming what it would be like to be an older single, childless person. I can guess, but in the end it is just a WAG.

 

[JaymeC]

I honestly still cannot believe how many people keep using childcare as an excuse. As a single parent I always know who can watch my children should the need arise. I was a single parent on Active Duty Army and my mother gave up everything and moved here to help in case I needed her help with my child (only one at the time and I was dual military with my now ex in korea). There were many times when she was taking my child(ren) to the doctor as my bosses did not like me missing work. If my child(ren) had shots than she kept them so they would not have to go back to the daycare. Even before she moved here and when I was station in Washington State I had the daycare center and extra people set as backup sitters since the daycare would not take a sick child. Why wait to find someone when you could research and know beforehand who could possibly take your child(ren)?? I just don't get this. Oh and my youngest never went to daycare but if I needed someone to watch her I had several people available to help me out. My friends and family also worked but they helped make it all work out.

There are many courts and judges (we have a female judge here as well) that will not let you off because of being a parent. What would you say if a man were requesting to not do jury duty because he is a sahd?? I don't think too many would feel the same way and some might even claim the man was just using it as an excuse. It is time to step up and do your duty when called upon unless you have a truely valid reason that you can show the court proof of (ex. medical disability/illness, child with severe disability, etc)

It's easy to judge when YOU had the perfect situation and someone there to care for your children. It's very easy to not see other people's perspectives, but I think some in this board should try to. Again, I would jump through the hoops to go into court if called for jury duty, but I can understand how it'd be a significant hardship

As for your comments on SAHDs, yes of course that's just as legitimate an excuse as a SAHM! Why wouldn't it be? They're still the primary care giver for a young child. My husband is leaving the military and will be being a SAHD for the next few years while he goes back to school. It will present just as many problems for him to go into jury duty as it would if it were me home instead. Of course, in my opinion it's easier now since both our kids are school aged, but childcare would still be pretty expensive. I don't see a problem with asking for compensation for that childcare, whether working or not. If you insist that parents serve on jury duty instead of deferring it for a few years, then in my opinion the court system needs to eat the cost of it.

 

[JaymeC]

Your child missing one or two days of therapy is not going to make that big of a difference. I know, having a child whose been down the therapy route.

I'm sorry, do you know her specific child's problem? Or what it would mean for her child to miss an appointment? I have two children that went down the therapy route, and neither of them would have suffered from missing an appointment or two, but I do realize that I don't know the situation for everyone else or what their specific therapy entails.

 

[herdtoDisney]

I can understand how some SAHP's might have an impossible time trying to arrange childcare for potential jury duty. When I was a SAHM, I was called, but thankfully my dad had retired and could watch the kids. If he hadn't been able to, I don't know what I would have done. Dh could have tried to get the day off, but it's not always possible (if others have already requested it and it's 'closed'). I really do not know what would have happened. Even in my good sized city, there are no drop in childcare centers, and regular ones won't take kids just for a few days. I'm blessed to have a good support system and I don't even know what I would have done-I can't imagine what to do if I had been away from extended family, as so many others are.

It's just not realistic to expect that everyone has someone/someplace to watch their kids for days at a time. I'm glad I never got called for federal duty (mine was local and I ended up only being there a day). I really think there should be a time delay given (maybe a few years) if there is a dependant care issue. If you look at the many potential years a person could serve-decades-then giving them an exemption for a few years while the babies are small is just a small slice of time. In the end, you'd probably have a much more willing potential juror. And it would avoid waste of time, and contempt threats (waste of time and $ IMO, judges should concentrate on the case at hand).

And I think it should be criminal for a judge to not allow a bf woman to pump!!! I (whom bf) would not have been even to concentrate on the proceedings, from discomfort and pain of engorgement That is absurd. Either give her a deferrment or give her a pumping break!

 

[mjbaby]

But you see that trend among women...the belief that only they can watch their children.

I've seen that, too. I'm not sure what we have is a "lack of childcare" problem with regards to many people's (not all, of course) issues relating to jury duty - and others - but rather a "lack of someone to do exactly what I want when my kids are with them" problem. Many of my peers just will not accept that their precious snowflakes might have to adjust for a few hours to a new environment and/or might have a glancing blow with something different than what they'd don't do (too much tv! is that a sugar snack? OMG don'tlethemplayinthemud!).

 

[dhcoffey]

Is there any other punishment than just paying the $300? Most people I know would pay the $300 and skip jury duty if there were no threat of jailtime. I'm not kidding. Heck, there have been times when I would have paid the $300 (like when I had nursing babies).

I don't know that I would call it punishment but your names goes on the list for the next term of service and you have no excuse next time at all.

Heather

 

[Hannathy]

I've seen that, too. I'm not sure what we have is a "lack of childcare" problem with regards to many people's (not all, of course) issues relating to jury duty - and others - but rather a "lack of someone to do exactly what I want when my kids are with them" problem. Many of my peers just will not accept that their precious snowflakes might have to adjust for a few hours to a new environment and/or might have a glancing blow with something different than what they'd don't do (too much tv! is that a sugar snack? OMG don'tlethemplayinthemud!).

I agree and if you go back over this thread you will see that several even said that exact thing. A few even said it wouldn't matter if the court had child care they wouldn't use it because no one else can watch their child!!
While I wholeheartedly feel a parent is the best person to raise a child and didn't use child care full time when mine were younger I also believe it is not true that someone else can't watch their children (or mine) for periods of time.
The snowflake isn't going to melt if Mom/Dad isn't the one watching them for a few hours or even a few days or weeks.

And before anyone says I don't know what it is like I do know what it is like to move half way across the country with a baby and be somewhere you have never lived before with no family and no friends and before the internet to look things up and I still believe that being a Mom or Dad with little ones or an elderly person to care for is not a reason to get out of jury duty, even if they are special needs. There are babysitters out there in every town no matter the size.

 

[Michelle and crew]

I've seen that, too. I'm not sure what we have is a "lack of childcare" problem with regards to many people's (not all, of course) issues relating to jury duty - and others - but rather a "lack of someone to do exactly what I want when my kids are with them" problem. Many of my peers just will not accept that their precious snowflakes might have to adjust for a few hours to a new environment and/or might have a glancing blow with something different than what they'd don't do (too much tv! is that a sugar snack? OMG don'tlethemplayinthemud!).

lol, while the dis seems to have its share of snowflakes, do you really know a lot of people like that irl? I don't. Most people I know are pretty practical. But maybe that is related to geographical area.

I don't see people having an issue with strangers watching their small children to be extreme. Do you all really just leave your kids with strangers? That is pretty stupid. Hell, I don't even drop my dog off with people I know nothing about. It has nothing to do with snobbery, but with common sense.

 

[Swimalie]

Sorry no childcare is not a valid excuse.
If you have no options you are not a very good parent now are you?

.

Seriously? You're saying people aren't good parents because they don't have options for childcare?! What nerve! I live 9 hours away from the nearest family and in a very expensive area so most of my friends work. There are very few stay at home moms here so very few emergency options for me. Could I do it? Yes but it would take a lot of phone calls to find one that was available, especially all day and one that I trust to care for my son. My husband could take time off from work and luckily has a lot of personal time that he could take. But all day? That would be hard since he's busy. If something comes up like I need to run to the doctor, my son comes with me.

But don't ever judge someone if they don't have other options for child care.

 

[Hannathy]

Seriously? You're saying people aren't good parents because they don't have options for childcare?! What nerve! I live 9 hours away from the nearest family and in a very expensive area so most of my friends work. There are very few stay at home moms here so very few emergency options for me. Could I do it? Yes but it would take a lot of phone calls to find one that was available, especially all day and one that I trust to care for my son. My husband could take time off from work and luckily has a lot of personal time that he could take. But all day? That would be hard since he's busy. If something comes up like I need to run to the doctor, my son comes with me.

But don't ever judge someone if they don't have other options for child care.

Sorry I happen to agree. All parents should have a plan in mind if they need to leave their child with someone. I didn't say it had to be in place with 1 phone call or perfect but it should be thought of.

Someone else can care for your child for a day. Kids are resilient.


We judge people all of the time so why is this any different?

 

[scrapquitler]

Someone else can care for your child for a day. Kids are resilient.

Sure, for one day I could probably find someone. But now imagine that I get picked for a jury. Oh, and because it's a federal jury, its a case that is going to last a week. Now what? Some people have situations where is truly is a problem to find childcare.

I did get called to Jury Duty at one point. I was a stay at home mom with a homeschooled child, a nursing infant and self employed husband. So the day I had to go: my child did not receive her education, my infant did not receive adequate nutrition (he would NOT take a bottle despite all our efforts), my husband had to lose a days pay (his business was essentially 'closed' that day because he couldn't work with the two children in his care). Oh, and I was extremely uncomfortable because I was engorged and had no place to pump. I explained my situation to the judge, when I finally saw her after lunch, and she excuse me, but told me that the 'other judge' looking for jurors that day would NOT have excused me.

Not everyone had childcare options, not everyone works in a job where jury duty is paid time off (I work part time now, they don't pay part-time employees for jury duty even though I am in a union job), self employed people would not get paid for jury duty PLUS their business would essentially be closed that day if like my DH they are a sole proprietor, some people care for elderly relatives who can't be left alone or for who finding another caregiver would be difficult.

Oh, and that time I went and got excused, the court did "pay" me since I wasn't eligible for pay from an employer - $20 for the day. Big Whoop. Parking cost me more than $5 that day and lunch cost another $5 (we weren't allowed to leave the building).

 

[scrapquitler]

Sorry I happen to agree. All parents should have a plan in mind if they need to leave their child with someone. I didn't say it had to be in place with 1 phone call or perfect but it should be thought of.

There is a huge difference between having a plan in place for an emergency situation versus having someone watch your child for something like going to Jury Dut. In an emergency one of my Mom Friends or neighbors would be happy to help and take my kids until one of my out of town relatives was able to get here and take them, but they wouldn't be willing for something like Jury Duty.

 

[Hannathy]

Not everyone had childcare options, not everyone works in a job where jury duty is paid time off (I work part time now, they don't pay part-time employees for jury duty even though I am in a union job), self employed people would not get paid for jury duty PLUS their business would essentially be closed that day if like my DH they are a sole proprietor, some people care for elderly relatives who can't be left alone or for who finding another caregiver would be difficult.

No everyone has child care options they just may not be ones the person "likes"

Loosing pay, being inconvenienced these are the prices we pay to have a government like ours, to live in a free country, to have a justice system. It truly saddens me that I see so many on here not getting this and are more worried about their snowflakes or loosing pay than doing their civic duty to preserve these freedoms.

Truly sad.