Advise - $3500 problem after closing on my first resale contract with contract

[shawnbrig]

Hey supersnoop,

Solution has been reached. All is well with the world.

I looked last night and there were at least two nights together July 10th and 11th in a 1 bedroom and a 2 bedroom. They may be able to do something with them, employees raffle. I guess the parks empty out at least a little bit after the holiday, or maybe no park tickets are available on those dates.

Yup, should have been caught by the estoppel. Who's the broker? Someone may be able to help you find the "make whole" provision in the contract. They owe you something; let's hope that part is in writing.

I'm not sure how they expect to rent Riveria points for a stay in this month.

 

[shawnbrig]

Grumpy Mouse,

The issue is just about resolved, I already choose from 3 options. I think its was just hard to explain what the issue was. The people on Disboards.com are well versed in all things DVC and I had to restate / re-explain a couple of things. I went to great lengths to not Identity the company, so yes we probably have the same company, because I know the document has a different name at another company.

They are making it right and then some.

Thanks,

Shawn Bright

Very sorry this happened to you.

I was worried about this very thing with our first resale contract (we have one resale and one stupidly purchased direct). Judging by the language in your closing docs (the Occupancy and Use section), you have the same broker and title company I had. I read that language about the seller's representation of the points and that the broker and title company in no way guarantee them - in essence you're on your own - but there was language to compensate us should there be any misrepresentation.

However I felt should there be any problems like what you're experiencing, it would likely get ugly quick and our only true remedy would be a legal one - something I definitely wanted to avoid. And oh wow are you proving my fears true.

I ended up holding up closing for almost 10 days while I got a personal assurance (in writing) from the owner of the resale brokerage that the matter would be settled to my satisfaction should there be a problem. I also made the seller send us screenshots of their DVC dashboard the day we signed the closing docs.

I agree with the above posters; if you've already signed and closed, you're at the mercy of whatever process the resale broker is offering.

That is unless you want to seek legal remedy - which I would not recommended.

Sorry again this happened to you. It apparently happens far more often than these resale brokers care to admit.

 

[ICEMAN3205]

Glad everything worked out for you, I know how you feel when your spending a lot of money and what your getting is not what you expect. I had a similar situation happen to me two weeks ago, when 180 points were missing from a contract I was buying. I believe it was from a different broker, and the seller supposed caught it on closing, I had already signed and was 2 hours from wiring the closing money (I was able to back out at least). They told me this is very rare, but to happen to two brokers in two weeks, makes you think that there should be a better checks and balance in the system.

 

[shawnbrig]

Hey DonMacGregor,

I want to say within an our of our phone call, I spoke with Scotty and he already had options, they are 1 hour ahead so they may have been working on it around the time I fell asleep. I am thankful for the feedback.

thanks,

Shawn

It sounds like Marissa and her team are working on making this right, so this isn't directed at the current situation.

Having said that, oftentimes simply retaining counsel puts opposing parties on notice that, at the very least, they will be incurring costs to defend any claims made against them. Unless there is some buried prevailing-party clause as to attorney's fees, just the possibility that legal fees could meet or exceed the amount owed seems to grease the wheels. It's amazing what a short letter, written on the right letterhead, can do to clear log jams.

 

[shawnbrig]

Hey Macman,

It is being resolved to my satisfaction and a more. I need a nap.

thanks,

Shawn

Well you have 2019 points which you did not expect. They can be rented out.

The contract will also allow for $15-$20pp for missing points. That is the sum you are entitled to.

Therefore you need to read the contract. See what the compensation is.

So if you rent out the 2019 points and the contract says they will give you $20pp for short 2020 points, then you would be entitled to any SHORTALL only.

So if you rented 2019 points for $1000 and it turns out the contract says you are entitled to 2020 points of $1500, then you would get $500 back.

If it turns out you rent for $1700 and the 2020 point contract says $1500, then you would not get anything back, as you have profited from the mistake.

But read the terms of the contract. If its DVCRM then there is usually a clause which says:

"IF THERE ARE LESS POINTS THAN WHAT IS STATED IN THIS CLAUSE AT TIME OF TRANSFER, THERE WILL BE AN $20 PER POINT COMPENSATION FROM SELLER TO BUYER OR BUYER MAY CANCEL THE CONTRACT."

 

[New Mouse]

Your recourse is the $ for the points, or the points as they would been due to you originally plus $ for your time.

Seeing that they rent points, the value would be whatever they charge someone to rent points through them. This would easily hold up in court.

 

[mustinjourney]

Hey RoseGold,

So the Title company document titled - Occupancy and Use disclosure says.

"Under a bound contract or other agreement, the Seller has represented the property referenced above to be 330 points with every use year. Seller also makes formal assurances that the buyers' to receive 156 banked points from August 2019 that will expire July 31, 2021 and 330 banked points from August 2020 and 330 points coming August 2021 and 330 points coming august 2022 and forward.

Buyer understands that ____ title company only guarantees title only."


It goes on to say we as a company in no way guarantee the sellers' claims. Buyer acknowledges that ______ title company is held harmless against misrepresentations made by the seller.

isn't this what is supposed to be double checked by disney as part of the estoppel process? That the points for each UY match the terms of the contract (including whether points have been borrowed or banked).

 

[mustinjourney]

Shawn,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this should have been caught when the estoppel came back after ROFR. At that point the seller would have had to either make a concession on price based on the contract or you could have walked away from the sale and gotten your deposit back. Once you sent in closing paperwork the buyer is basically off the hook. The broker may offer something (like those rental points), but my gut is you may never get what is really due to you. It sucks, but I don't know if it would be worth the time and effort to pursue a legal remedy to this.

yeah -- that's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[The Jackal]

Well you have 2019 points which you did not expect. They can be rented out.

The contract will also allow for $15-$20pp for missing points. That is the sum you are entitled to.

Therefore you need to read the contract. See what the compensation is.

So if you rent out the 2019 points and the contract says they will give you $20pp for short 2020 points, then you would be entitled to any SHORTALL only.

So if you rented 2019 points for $1000 and it turns out the contract says you are entitled to 2020 points of $1500, then you would get $500 back.

If it turns out you rent for $1700 and the 2020 point contract says $1500, then you would not get anything back, as you have profited from the mistake.

But read the terms of the contract. If its DVCRM then there is usually a clause which says:

"IF THERE ARE LESS POINTS THAN WHAT IS STATED IN THIS CLAUSE AT TIME OF TRANSFER, THERE WILL BE AN $20 PER POINT COMPENSATION FROM SELLER TO BUYER OR BUYER MAY CANCEL THE CONTRACT."

The big problem is they are RIV resale points and expire on July 31 2021. They can only be used at RIV and I’m sure dates and rooms are limited or none available.

This issue should have been caught by DVC during ROFR. People make mistakes. I’m glad that the resale company has options to fix this. Good luck and Welcome Home.

 

[Eldon32]

isn't this what is supposed to be double checked by disney as part of the estoppel process? That the points for each UY match the terms of the contract (including whether points have been borrowed or banked).

Pretty sure estoppel only covers checking for outstanding dues/liens.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

What title co did you have? I find some title companies have paperwork that is unnecessarily complicated and doesn’t even document things you would expect them to— like available points. But it sounds like it all worked out, good work tracking it all down.

To all: make sure you pick your own title company. Buyer gets to pick. Brokers like to work with the title co that will give them “kickbacks.”

 

[Sandisw]

Pretty sure estoppel only covers checking for outstanding dues/liens.

This is what I was told. It is not a verification of the points. Matter of fact, when I went to list the contract I just sold, they asked for me to send them info from my DVC account to verify points instead Of requesting it from Disney because they said Disney can no longer provide due to short staffing.