Advise - $3500 problem after closing on my first resale contract with contract

[macman123]

Macman123,

I had to come back and comment on the number of contract since you put it out there. YOU HAVE FOURTEEN CONTRACTS! I only say the number of contracts I have if I am in person, or on the phone with someone I can feel is excited about Disney vacations. I am in a room by myself and I said how many I have and smile and think that's ridiculous. DVC has brought joy to family, friends, and coworkers. I know there is a thread for number of points, is there one for number of contracts?

thanks,

Shawn

Yes I 14 contracts and 2.500 points. I have never had an issue as the original contract before it goes to Disney for ROFR says what the contract should have.

Then the Title Co get the estoppel document from Disney. That tells the Title Co the true state of the account and points.

But I would agree with the above, the contract you sign when the offer is accepted, generally has a clause saying you will be credited $15-$20 per point which is not accurate.

 

[shawnbrig]

Macman123,

Put yourself in my shoes. What would you do?

Yes I 14 contracts and 2.500 points. I have never had an issue as the original contract before it goes to Disney for ROFR says what the contract should have.

Then the Title Co get the estoppel document from Disney. That tells the Title Co the true state of the account and points.

But I would agree with the above, the contract you sign when the offer is accepted, generally has a clause saying you will be credited $15-$20 per point which is not accurate.

 

[davidl81]

Shawn,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this should have been caught when the estoppel came back after ROFR. At that point the seller would have had to either make a concession on price based on the contract or you could have walked away from the sale and gotten your deposit back. Once you sent in closing paperwork the buyer is basically off the hook. The broker may offer something (like those rental points), but my gut is you may never get what is really due to you. It sucks, but I don't know if it would be worth the time and effort to pursue a legal remedy to this.

 

[ldo]

The broker may offer something (like those rental points), but my gut is you may never get what is really due to you. It sucks, but I don't know if it would be worth the time and effort to pursue a legal remedy to this.

agree. If you've sent in closing documents and it hasn't closed, you could tell them you'd like to cancel or reduced pricing. but if you've closed, I'd ask for a points transfer--over rental points and take any resort and rent them out, don't worry about it being Riviera.
consulting an atty will cost $$, likely over what you've possibly lost. Plus, few attys are versed in timeshare law. Just have the broker make it whole with a points transfer or rental points worse case.

 

[JETSDAD]

Could you have them transfer Dec 2020 points so that they could still be banked? It would just need to be done fairly soon.

 

[supersnoop]

Yup, should have been caught by the estoppel. Who's the broker? Someone may be able to help you find the "make whole" provision in the contract. They owe you something; let's hope that part is in writing.

I'm not sure how they expect to rent Riveria points for a stay in this month.

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

Very sorry this happened to you.

I was worried about this very thing with our first resale contract (we have one resale and one stupidly purchased direct). Judging by the language in your closing docs (the Occupancy and Use section), you have the same broker and title company I had. I read that language about the seller's representation of the points and that the broker and title company in no way guarantee them - in essence you're on your own - but there was language to compensate us should there be any misrepresentation.

However I felt should there be any problems like what you're experiencing, it would likely get ugly quick and our only true remedy would be a legal one - something I definitely wanted to avoid. And oh wow are you proving my fears true.

I ended up holding up closing for almost 10 days while I got a personal assurance (in writing) from the owner of the resale brokerage that the matter would be settled to my satisfaction should there be a problem. I also made the seller send us screenshots of their DVC dashboard the day we signed the closing docs.

I agree with the above posters; if you've already signed and closed, you're at the mercy of whatever process the resale broker is offering.

That is unless you want to seek legal remedy - which I would not recommended.

Sorry again this happened to you. It apparently happens far more often than these resale brokers care to admit.

 

[CSLucas]

Have they said they are unwilling to transfer you 174 2021 points instead of 174 2020 points? I understand being annoyed that they don't see the full problem, but honestly it sounds like they are trying to make it right. Giving you $$ isn't really an option for them because they don't have that money - they didn't sell the contract, they just facilitated the sale. I would go back to them and explain why you need 2021 points, and then see what their answer is (unless you have already tried this).

 

[Marissa Vallotton]

Hey Shawn,

Marissa here from DVC Resale Market. First let me say I am so sorry for the frustration caused up until this point. I realized that this process has been exhausting for you and the resolution has not met expectations and for that we are deeply sorry. Please know that we have all hands on deck at the moment and we will be providing you with the 174 points from 2020. Our team will be in touch with the next steps of getting those points loaded into your account asap.

If you need a direct contact for the time being please don't hesitate to reach out to me directly 626-320-0161 or marissa@dvcresalemarket.com.

Thanks again

 

[DonMacGregor]

consulting an atty will cost $$, likely over what you've possibly lost. Plus, few attys are versed in timeshare law. Just have the broker make it whole with a points transfer or rental points worse case.

It sounds like Marissa and her team are working on making this right, so this isn't directed at the current situation.

Having said that, oftentimes simply retaining counsel puts opposing parties on notice that, at the very least, they will be incurring costs to defend any claims made against them. Unless there is some buried prevailing-party clause as to attorney's fees, just the possibility that legal fees could meet or exceed the amount owed seems to grease the wheels. It's amazing what a short letter, written on the right letterhead, can do to clear log jams.

 

[macman123]

Macman123,

Put yourself in my shoes. What would you do?

Well you have 2019 points which you did not expect. They can be rented out.

The contract will also allow for $15-$20pp for missing points. That is the sum you are entitled to.

Therefore you need to read the contract. See what the compensation is.

So if you rent out the 2019 points and the contract says they will give you $20pp for short 2020 points, then you would be entitled to any SHORTALL only.

So if you rented 2019 points for $1000 and it turns out the contract says you are entitled to 2020 points of $1500, then you would get $500 back.

If it turns out you rent for $1700 and the 2020 point contract says $1500, then you would not get anything back, as you have profited from the mistake.

But read the terms of the contract. If its DVCRM then there is usually a clause which says:

"IF THERE ARE LESS POINTS THAN WHAT IS STATED IN THIS CLAUSE AT TIME OF TRANSFER, THERE WILL BE AN $20 PER POINT COMPENSATION FROM SELLER TO BUYER OR BUYER MAY CANCEL THE CONTRACT."

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Hey KAT4DISNEY,

So the contract is just a copy of the contract used when purchasing direct from Disney. On the resale contract it just stipulates that it is a 330 point contract with an August use year and ownership of some miniscule percentage of unit ____. There is no specific language that stated your contract will include 156 - 2019 points, 2020 - 330. So besides my screen shots, the agent admitting over the phone there was an error on their end, and the email, nothing is written. Most of communication was with the resale agent but the email text in quotations came from the CEO of the resale company, with my sales agent carbon copied. It sounds like they know something went wrong. If I called Disney tomorrow and bought a 330 direct contract tomorrow with an August. They would give me 330 August 2020 points and August 2021 points would be coming in a few months. If I remember correctly the contract does not say you will be given 330 beginning August 2020 points it just says 330 points per year. Maybe they do and all 15 times so far I trusted Disney LOL. No really I am in Texas and I get my point the day after I add on. The contract arrives a couple of days later.

Thanks,

Shawn Bright

I see that you have found where it outlines the points in the contract and it is as you expected.

I missed if your contract has the typical $20/pt clause if points are missing? At this point I would require that the broker either pay you $20/pt for the 174 banked points that are missing from being banked into the 2021 UY or else to transfer you points that are either 2021 Aug UY (since you are past the banking deadline and receiving 2020 points leaves you in exactly the same situation) or else points from a different UY that are still eligible to be banked and will be valid during most of your next UY. At this point that would be Dec 2020 points. Receiving Aug 2021 points would IMO be proper for the hassle of them missing this detail. And at this point they should not be requiring that you get the rental completed before they transfer. This was their mistake and it is now up to them to do the right thing to fix it. I would be fine doing the rental back to them of the 174 points and telling them it could be up to 330 and they shall pay you for any points rented over the 174 points but they need to transfer asap.

I've purchased several resale contracts also and never had this type of issue reach this point. Only during one purchase was it found the points in the listing were incorrect but it was caught by the broker within a day of signing the contract and got no where near being a closed sale.

 

[HickoryDickory]

Did the seller make the 174 point reservation BEFORE or AFTER putting the contract on the market and accepting an offer?

 

[Sandisw]

Does anyone who has purchase resale have the point allocations listed on their closing documents. Really interested to here from people with stripped contracts. Would they notate no points coming till August 2022? Contract heavy loaded like mine, did they list the allocation of your banked points from two different years?

Thanks,

Shawn

My contracts have always been accurate when I ask them to bank. I just sent the contract for my RIV resale and it did indeed show they had banked when it went to Disney and was what we signed.

It seems pretty simple That you are owed 174 points for 2021 that borrowed at whatever rate the contract says.

The 174 expiring in 45 days or so are extra, but I don’t see that as your issue because you can use them nor bought the contract with them.

But, it’s sounds like they will figure it out for you!!

 

[shawnbrig]

Good morning Marissa,

It was nice speaking with you and working on getting this issue resolved.

Thank you,

Shawn

Hey Shawn,

Marissa here from DVC Resale Market. First let me say I am so sorry for the frustration caused up until this point. I realized that this process has been exhausting for you and the resolution has not met expectations and for that we are deeply sorry. Please know that we have all hands on deck at the moment and we will be providing you with the 174 points from 2020. Our team will be in touch with the next steps of getting those points loaded into your account asap.

If you need a direct contact for the time being please don't hesitate to reach out to me directly 626-320-0161 or marissa@dvcresalemarket.com.

Thanks again

Shawn,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this should have been caught when the estoppel came back after ROFR. At that point the seller would have had to either make a concession on price based on the contract or you could have walked away from the sale and gotten your deposit back. Once you sent in closing paperwork the buyer is basically off the hook. The broker may offer something (like those rental points), but my gut is you may never get what is really due to you. It sucks, but I don't know if it would be worth the time and effort to pursue a legal remedy to this.

 

[shawnbrig]

Hey Davidl81,

I spoke with Marissa and she already had a solution. So I think we are all on the same page. I appreciated the fact that she jumped in to claim ownership, after I read everything made sure not to include the resale company's name, left out the commission amounts, left out the title company name, and anything that could give away the resale company.

Now that its all out there, Scotty Kauffman was my agent and the whole reason I didn't just file a formal complaint. When you file a complaint it seems directly focused on the agent and or broker directly, so I was not interested in that. My agent had gone out of his way, advised me of resale restrictions, banking points base on when the contract would close, and he just seemed like an all around kind guy. When I contacted Disney and called Scotty he stayed on the phone with me. I sent him screen shots, I could hear him going talking through, and flipping over his paperwork. He saw the issue and was honest. He didn't say let me call you back and run off to a manager. He acknowledged the error and read the terms out loud to me, confirming that I was correct. I realized Kauffman is not the name on the company, so just because he acknowledged something doesn't mean it will be resolved. I work in a large customer service oriented company, sometimes admitting your companies mistakes is not easy.

It looks like it is going to work out. It was really complicated trying to explain the situation to everyone here on disboards.com. The reality was only DVC "nerds" could confirm what I was seeing and advise on what my next step should be.

Thank you for your comment Davidl181,

Shawn

Shawn,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this should have been caught when the estoppel came back after ROFR. At that point the seller would have had to either make a concession on price based on the contract or you could have walked away from the sale and gotten your deposit back. Once you sent in closing paperwork the buyer is basically off the hook. The broker may offer something (like those rental points), but my gut is you may never get what is really due to you. It sucks, but I don't know if it would be worth the time and effort to pursue a legal remedy to this.

 

[shawnbrig]

Good morning Ido,

After being up all night reading, and posting I fell asleep sometime after my 7:22 am post (I think that's central time, the sun was up). I woke up to see the posts and contacted Marissa. I closed in May. I spoke with Marissa and my agent Scotty and they are resolving the issue and actually going a step further. I can't believe I stayed up all night. I don't drink coffee, no soda last night ( only because there is none in the house) trying to figure this out was the fuel. I feel so much better. That is what matter is how I feel. Speaking with Marissa and Scotty makes me feel like they are fixing the situation and they are working on doing something extra. This is a terrible tactic but when something is a major annoyance to me, I push it to the side, and deal with it when I am ready.

Thanks Ido,

Shawn

agree. If you've sent in closing documents and it hasn't closed, you could tell them you'd like to cancel or reduced pricing. but if you've closed, I'd ask for a points transfer--over rental points and take any resort and rent them out, don't worry about it being Riviera.
consulting an atty will cost $$, likely over what you've possibly lost. Plus, few attys are versed in timeshare law. Just have the broker make it whole with a points transfer or rental points worse case.

 

[poofyo101]

Good outcome. Stand up service

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Good outcome. Stand up service

Well, good outcome anyway. The rest is a bit mixed on the service end but so it goes.

 

[shawnbrig]

Hey JETSDAD

Yes that would work because you can bank by July 31st. I have looked over the 3 options, and selected one. This may be resolved today.

Thanks JETSDAD,

Shawn

Could you have them transfer Dec 2020 points so that they could still be banked? It would just need to be done fairly soon.