A close friend gifted me with a Bible

[ronandannette]

"Gracelessly."

Really, a person should be graceless?

The Bible is not a "style" of book. It's a religious text.

If someone did gift me a Bible (never has happened to me except for my Confirmation, where it is the "standard" gift given in that church), I'd say "thank you."

I'd be gracious.

But, I would find it odd that a long term friend would give me that gift out of the blue. Would you feel that same way, for example, if someone gifted you the Book of Mormon or the Koran? Long term friend, knows you aren't Mormon or Muslim, and they give you a Book of Mormon or the Koran? I'll bet you'd find it a bit odd, and that is what OP is saying here.

Gonna take a guess that sam_gordon meant "graciously", given the context of the sentence. And no - the OP did not say anything about thinking the gift was odd. Nothing at all.

 

[sam_gordon]

Gonna take a guess that sam_gordon meant "graciously", given the context of the sentence. And no - the OP did not say anything about thinking the gift was odd. Nothing at all.

Thank you, yes, that's what I meant. My fingers got ahead of my brain.

 

[L&Lfan]

I have to say the amount of hostility and anger toward religion in many of these posts surprised me. I can understand disinterest or ambivalence or even dislike of religion. But the hostility? I wasn't expecting that...You learn something every day on these boards.

 

[Hikergirl]

I have to say the amount of hostility and anger toward religion in many of these posts surprised me. I can understand disinterest or ambivalence or even dislike of religion. But the hostility? I wasn't expecting that...You learn something every day on these boards.

I don't think its hostility toward religion but more hostility towards someone who thinks that one is in need of your religion.
From my experience, giving someone a bible was done for 2 reasons. One, a person who practices that faith has met a religious milestone. Two, the person giving the bible believes that the recipient is need of the messages in the bible.
If you are one who practices said religion neither would bother you. If you are not, then the only reason you would be given a bible would probably offend you, and there is where the hostility comes from. That isn't towards religion in general, it is toward the assumption that a person doesn't have their own beliefs that bring them what they need and they would be better off if they were shown another way.

 

[wenrob]

I have to say the amount of hostility and anger toward religion in many of these posts surprised me. I can understand disinterest or ambivalence or even dislike of religion. But the hostility? I wasn't expecting that...You learn something every day on these boards.

For myself the hostility is not towards religion itself, it's the relentless push to "save" me. After 30+years of walking away from it, it gets old. I'm a live and let live kind of person. We may not agree or believe in the same things but I respect your views. It would never, ever occur to me to go to a religious person in my life and try to change their mind about what they believe. It would be highly disrespectful, obnoxious, rude and just plain wrong on so many levels. So in the context of my original post that's where I'm coming from. If someone who knows me well, who's mind I've never tried to change suddenly presented me with a bible yeah, it would upset me because I'm not being afforded the same courtesy that I give to them.

 

[wenrob]

I don't think its hostility toward religion but more hostility towards someone who thinks that one is in need of your religion.
From my experience, giving someone a bible was done for 2 reasons. One, a person who practices that faith has met a religious milestone. Two, the person giving the bible believes that the recipient is need of the messages in the bible.
If you are one who practices said religion neither would bother you. If you are not, then the only reason you would be given a bible would probably offend you, and there is where the hostility comes from. That isn't towards religion in general, it is toward the assumption that a person doesn't have their own beliefs that bring them what they need and they would be better off if they were shown another way.

Or this. Yes, so much this.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have to say the amount of hostility and anger toward religion in many of these posts surprised me. I can understand disinterest or ambivalence or even dislike of religion. But the hostility? I wasn't expecting that...You learn something every day on these boards.

Well I guess me personally haven't seen hostility, but I'm not negating that you see that.

I sorta liken it to responses you would probably get if a person said "every woman should have a child, you're not complete unless you have a child, etc". Both having a child and your view on religion are in general choices a person makes.

As it has been said multiple times a close friend, especially one of 40+ years, would know if a bible was an appropriate gift. The OP stated they weren't interested in reading it and no we as posters don't know if they have passionate feelings about it being a bible. I just think most of us are like when it comes to giving someone a bible after knowing them for so long. The vast majority of people who have been friends for an extended period of time are going to know if giving their friend a bible is something they would welcome and be interested in reading. If you never brought up religion it would be out of place for your friend to one day show up and give you a bible. If you expressed that you are of a different faith than your friend it would be out of place for your friend to one day show up and give you a bible.

If they choose to be very religious then I suspect someone might have more passionate feelings if someone made a comment about that.
If you choose to not be very religious " ".
If you choose to not be religious at all " ".

I also think that it is a valid question about what type of responses might be occur if the item given from one close friend to another was related to another religion. It's also valid if the item in question was just a regular book rather than a book of religious aspect.

 

[ariel71]

I have to say the amount of hostility and anger toward religion in many of these posts surprised me. I can understand disinterest or ambivalence or even dislike of religion. But the hostility? I wasn't expecting that...You learn something every day on these boards.

I'm probably one of the people you're referring to. To explain - millions of Jews died in the Holocaust. Millions of people in the current unrest in the Middle East. Some used it to justify slavery. A partial basis for segregation and apartheid in South Africa. Partial basis for the Northern Ireland conflict. The KKK. Then there are more current nonviolent political issues, such as opposing same-sex marriage on a religious basis. Bandying about the idea of a Muslim registry, even if it was never really seriously considered, is cause for alarm.

I realize that there are many more, and larger, secular sources of conflict - territory, resources, power, etc. I don't want to lay all of the world's ills on religion; clearly that's not the case. However, speaking broadly, I believe religion can separate outward just as much as it unites inward, having serious consequences. So, yes, I have some hostility and am actually surprised that more don't.

 

[Magpie]

I'm probably one of the people you're referring to. To explain - millions of Jews died in the Holocaust. Millions of people in the current unrest in the Middle East. Some used it to justify slavery. A partial basis for segregation and apartheid in South Africa. Partial basis for the Northern Ireland conflict. The KKK. Then there are more current nonviolent political issues, such as opposing same-sex marriage on a religious basis. Bandying about the idea of a Muslim registry, even if it was never really seriously considered, is cause for alarm.

I realize that there are many more, and larger, secular sources of conflict - territory, resources, power, etc. I don't want to lay all of the world's ills on religion; clearly that's not the case. However, speaking broadly, I believe religion can separate outward just as much as it unites inward, having serious consequences. So, yes, I have some hostility and am actually surprised that more don't.

I think the presence or absence of hostility very much depends on your experience of religion.

Giving myself as an example: I was raised Quaker. I attended a convent school full of the kind of nuns who played guitar and told me that "God loves ALL His children! Even you!" and never asked me to convert. I moved to Canada and ended up in first Catholic school, then a Protestant private school. Neither ever asked me to become their kind of Christian. I was once pushed into a broom closet with a Catholic priest and I said, "I'm sorry, Father, I'm not Catholic." His reply, "Oh, that's fine. As long as we're here, is there anything you'd like to talk about?"

I hung out with Wiccans. I used Christian homeschool materials to teach my kids.

Later, I became a member of a Unitarian congregation (because my husband couldn't cope with the Quaker commitment to pacifism). At the time I joined, our pastor was an avowed Atheist. We've been through a few pastors since then - the current one is Christian. There's a rainbow flag hanging over our church's front door, and a plaque recognizing that the land our church is built on once belonged to the local Native tribe. We have a Jewish congregation using our building on Saturdays and sometimes the Wiccans rent out our space for rituals.

For me, I have very positive associations with religion. When I read about the grief people cause each other in the name of religion it causes me some cognitive dissonance, because it is so very alien to my experience.

By way of analogy: Imagine spending your whole life around dogs, loving them and enjoying what they bring to your world. Then imagine someone tells you about all the people who've been injured or killed by dogs, and says they hate dogs and can't understand why anyone would want to bring one into their home. You still love your dogs, and you still feel positively towards dogs in general, but you can't dismiss the truth of what that person is saying either. You feel bad for them.

So maybe, if you don't think better of it in time, you might argue with them. Point out all the wonderful dogs in the world. Dogs who've saved lives. You might tell them they just need to get to know dogs better. Heck, you might even give them a puppy as a present. It would be a very ill-advised, unwelcome present, but one which comes from both a place of caring and that natural human desire to make others see the world the way we do.

 

[Uncranky Donald]

By way of analogy: Imagine spending your whole life around dogs, loving them and enjoying what they bring to your world. Then imagine someone tells you about all the people who've been injured or killed by dogs, and says they hate dogs and can't understand why anyone would want to bring one into their home. You still love your dogs, and you still feel positively towards dogs in general, but you can't dismiss the truth of what that person is saying either. You feel bad for them.

So maybe, if you don't think better of it in time, you might argue with them. Point out all the wonderful dogs in the world. Dogs who've saved lives. You might tell them they just need to get to know dogs better. Heck, you might even give them a puppy as a present. It would be a very ill-advised, unwelcome present, but one which comes from both a place of caring and that natural human desire to make others see the world the way we do.

THIS!!! This is what I haven't seen defended yet in the scenario here. The giver. Well done. To me none of this was about religion, it was about a friendship, which is a relationship. As I tried to articulate in PPs , utilizing the gift of the bible as a way to understand the givers intent from a place of good, not bad. Instead of giving in to the assumptions of ill intent and negativity, try and see what is so important about this gift that my friend (whom I love) would want me to have it. Instead of saying, "Well they should know me better!" maybe say we may need to work on our relationship if the gift truly offends you. (clearly no longer talking about OP, talking about the scenario created). I know that if presented with the same situation and given any religious text I would say "Cool, whats this for?" and honestly I trust any of my friend's explanations cuz we've worked hard to get to where we are in our relationships. I know they would never intentionally hurt me & when we disagree we talk about it and move on. Life's too short.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I have to say the amount of hostility and anger toward religion in many of these posts surprised me. I can understand disinterest or ambivalence or even dislike of religion. But the hostility? I wasn't expecting that...You learn something every day on these boards.

I'm not surprised.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually, you ARE allowed to read, own, and even give as a personal gift a Bible in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia allows people to practice their own religions, privately. Of course, the only religion practiced in public is Islam, but what you do in private is up to you.

What is not allowed in Saudi Arabia is religious proselytization (except, of course, of Islam). So, you may not import large quantities of Bibles into the country (because, really, it's obvious they're not all for you), but you can bring one for your own use. You may not go door to door giving away Bibles. You may not deliberately leave a Bible behind in your hotel room, or in any public place. You may not hand Bibles out to strangers in the street.

But giving one as a gift to a friend? Just fine (unless the aforementioned friend then goes to the authorities to accuse you of proselytizing, that is). Or worse, your friend happens to be Muslim, reads your Bible, converts to Christianity and blames it all on you. Apostasy (abandoning Islam or convincing someone else to abandon Islam) IS a crime in Saudi Arabia.

Not too sure about that. Young man simply trying to get to work. Stopped at the airport with a Bible in his suitcase. One Bible. He was detained until his company was able to negotiate his release. Luckily they were able to. They were very worried. These guys were told they couldn't even have pictures of their wives that might be seen as "inappropriate".



As for the OP, either put it away as one of those "special gifts" that one usually likes to keep (we have a bunch from my dh's grandmother) or donate it to just about any organization. If it was my friend, I think I would keep it with the special gifts. Yes, even if it was a Quran. I don't think the book is going to suddenly jump up and beat you over the head to read it. I have been given a Book of Mormon. I think its still at Mom's house somewhere.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Hostility towards religion, and the religions associated with the Bible, is very real.
True anger and hostility.
Been that way, like, forever.... No surprize.

The thing is, what is written in the Bible, and what is preached and practiced by humans in positions of power in organized religion(s), with dubious purposes, can be two very different things.
And not only different, but many times quite opposite.

The Bible, and religion... any 'religion' are like the old saying guns/cars/etc don't kill people, people kill people.

Things can either be used in a way to reap great benefit, or protection.. or they can be abused or used for negative self serving purposes

 

[brookmey]

I believe the OP has every right to give the Bible back if she's not interested in reading it. She could say thank you and show appreciation for the gesture, but at the same time she needs to let the friend know where she stands. I don't know anything about the friend, but what if the religious gift giving doesn't stop there? What if it's not a one time thing? I would think a friendship of 40 years would warrant some honesty from the receiver and that the friend should know if a Bible is an appropriate gift for that person.

I do admit, though, that I'm pretty sensitive to this issue. I have a SIL who has given me a Bible and other religious books that are written by her pastor. Obviously the Bible wasn't, but it is a version printed by her church with study questions and articles written by her pastor and other church members. She 1st gave me the Bible after I had a miscarriage, even though I'm Catholic and have my own Bible. I appreciated the gesture and felt like she was just trying, in her own way, to help me through a difficult time. But then for my birthday and the following Christmas, she gave me books written by her pastor. Again, I accepted them with a thank you, thinking she just has good intentions. I started to read one, but did not like its tone and it's message, so I donated them both.

Next came questions about how committed I was to Catholicism. Then came the invites to her church on Sundays, even though she knew we went to Mass every Sunday. By this time I was pretty upset with her because I felt like every gift had been a calculated attempt to bring me into her church. I really wish I had said "thanks, but no thanks" to the Bible at the very beginning.

I'm not saying the OP's friend is like this, but it is something to think about when you and a friend don't share the same religious beliefs.

 

[Magpie]

Not too sure about that. Young man simply trying to get to work. Stopped at the airport with a Bible in his suitcase. One Bible. He was detained until his company was able to negotiate his release. Luckily they were able to. They were very worried. These guys were told they couldn't even have pictures of their wives that might be seen as "inappropriate".



As for the OP, either put it away as one of those "special gifts" that one usually likes to keep (we have a bunch from my dh's grandmother) or donate it to just about any organization. If it was my friend, I think I would keep it with the special gifts. Yes, even if it was a Quran. I don't think the book is going to suddenly jump up and beat you over the head to read it. I have been given a Book of Mormon. I think its still at Mom's house somewhere.

Source? (Besides ChristianToday or the Daily Mail, I mean.)

Here's what I've got: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/saudi-arabia/local-laws-and-customs

"The public practice of any form of religion other than Islam is illegal; as is an intention to convert others. However, the Saudi authorities accept the private practice of religions other than Islam, and you can bring a Bible into the country as long as it is for your personal use. Importing larger quantities than this can carry severe penalties."

And also this Snopes article: http://www.snopes.com/punishment-reading-bible-saudi-arabia/

 

[PollyannaMom]

I was once pushed into a broom closet with a Catholic priest and I said, "I'm sorry, Father, I'm not Catholic." His reply, "Oh, that's fine. As long as we're here, is there anything you'd like to talk about?"

Love it!

 

[sunshinehighway]

Source? (Besides ChristianToday or the Daily Mail, I mean.)

Here's what I've got: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/saudi-arabia/local-laws-and-customs

"The public practice of any form of religion other than Islam is illegal; as is an intention to convert others. However, the Saudi authorities accept the private practice of religions other than Islam, and you can bring a Bible into the country as long as it is for your personal use. Importing larger quantities than this can carry severe penalties."

And also this Snopes article: http://www.snopes.com/punishment-reading-bible-saudi-arabia/

It doesn't matter if the story is false. People believe what they want and just make excuses for it.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I also think that it is a valid question about what type of responses might be occur if the item given from one close friend to another was related to another religion. It's also valid if the item in question was just a regular book rather than a book of religious aspect.

I haven't commented yet, but I can say that my son was gifted with a book from another religion. He was a young school aged child.

We are Catholic. (Very Catholic. I work at the parish, attend Bible studies, dabble in daily Mass, as does my son, and we are well known at the parish)

He thanked the giver. And kept the book since it was a gift from a friend. A few years ago, we gifted the book to someone of the same religion.

There wasn't a big ta do about it. The gift giver was thanked, and we moved on. It just wasn't a big deal.

Reading through this thread, I'm surprised that this seems to be such a big deal. Or then again, maybe I'm not. It is the DIS.

 

[Wendy31]

It doesn't matter if the story is false. People believe what they want and just make excuses for it.

And that goes both ways.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm a Christian & have owned several Bibles over the years.

If a friend who knows I'm a Christian gave me a religious text from a different religion, I'd possibly wonder why, but I'd also accept the gift graciously. I'm not sure what I'd do w/ the text - possibly donate it, possibly keep it. Out of interest, I'd at least look through it, & I wouldn't just toss it in the trash.

If a friend wanted to talk to me about his/her religion - even if it's different than my own religion, I'd be fine talking w/ my friend, provided our discussion stayed mutually respectful.

I once talked for over 30 minutes to a couple of Mormon girls who had come to our door. It was a very interesting, non-threatening discussion. I learned more about their specific beliefs, & I talked to them about my Baptist beliefs. No one got upset or offended.

I'm not scared of religions & don't feel threatened by religions other than mine. So my immediate response to a religious gift would not be to feel offended, threatened, or attacked by my friend. I'd simply thank the person for the gift & then continue to live my life.

Again, perhaps, the person had some sort of ulterior motive for giving the OP a Bible. Who knows? But that's on the friend.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I haven't commented yet, but I can say that my son was gifted with a book from another religion. He was a young school aged child.

We are Catholic. (Very Catholic. I work at the parish, attend Bible studies, dabble in daily Mass, as does my son, and we are well known at the parish)

He thanked the giver. And kept the book since it was a gift from a friend. A few years ago, we gifted the book to someone of the same religion.

There wasn't a big ta do about it. The gift giver was thanked, and we moved on. It just wasn't a big deal.

Reading through this thread, I'm surprised that this seems to be such a big deal. Or then again, maybe I'm not. It is the DIS.

I understand your comment but in the context of this thread we're talking about a close friend of 40+ years. I personally would treat that differently than if for example I'm given the gift you are speaking of when I'm a young kid or a friend who I'm just starting out with because perhaps they haven't gotten to know me well enough. I still would find it odd because of it being a religious symbol but not on the same level as a close friend of 40+ years. I can't say that's why some feel so strongly about the topic but I do know it's been said by me and multiple other posters regarding the longevity of the friendship.

To me this topic isn't one isolated to the DIS. I would have this same conversation with people around me.