9 nights at OKW; 0 days at Disney theme parks

[DeeP]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
As long as we avoid I-4 we've never had any problem going up and down I-Drive, Sea Harbor, Universal Blvd, Sand Lake and all the other interconnecting roads. I-192 can get a bite frustrating, but since the major highway overhaul was completed,it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.

I run into the same traffic on I-Drive especially in the AM. I have to be at my seminars/meetings by 8:30 but usually get there by 8:15 so I leave WDW property by 7:30 and always run into people who have no idea where they are going and are traveling in traffic that moves at a fairly good pace and their confusion gets progressively worse as you get closer to the Universal et al area. Then in the evening coming back to WDW I run into the people returning to their hotels from all the various parks or those going out to dinner. It drives me nuts! Also when I drive in this area I am not in the vacation mode--I am working. Maybe I would feel differently if I was making this commute while on vacation, but I doubt it since I am a person that does not like to combine the words driving and vacation in the same sentence! LOL!!!

 

[MickeyMcMouse]

Originally posted by Werner Weiss
The best thing for Disney would be if we all had Deluxe Annual Passes or Unlimited Magic Passes. Such passes are likely to substantially limit visits to off-site attractions. Some DVC members who spend many days on-site already have Annual Passes. For the rest of us, Disney needs to encourage us to buy such passes, and the easiest way to offer such encouragement is with better discounts.

I couldn't agree more. We had a surpise visit to VWL in June for 4 days (long story) and never spent any time in the parks. AP's had run out in Jan and orig plan was for next visit in Nov/Dec when they would be renewed.

WDW missed out on about 3 lunches , 3 dinners and $100's on park shopping. I wonder when the management are going to realise that some of DVC'ers need a little extra encouragement to visit the parks while staying in our wonderful "homes".

David

 

[timC]

Please, Disney, give us more reasons to spend our money on-site at WDW. Please give us a frequent diner program to encourage us to dine in Disney restaurants. Please make sure the parks have fresh shows and attractions every year. Please offer DVC members ticket media that encourage us to visit the Disney parks throughout our stay.

Yes.... I too want more, and want it to be cheaper.

That said, even before I step in a park, I give DVC to majority of my vacation $$$. Being on-site means they have a strong chance at my dining $$. In fact, we have not desire to dine off-site, and it would be a rare situation if we didn't go to any WDW park ( TL, BB, and PI are WDW establishments by the way).

The resorts are great and there's a lot of other stuff to do in Orlando, but it's the entire WDW experience that sets DVC apart from other timeshares. If we ever lost interest in WDW, me and my $$$ are out'a there!

Also, I don't think there's any problem taking day trips out-side of WDW to see/do other theme parks. WDW does not want to be all things to all people. The other parks helps draw national/international vacationers. From that draw, WDW benefits the most. They should price they media to be competative (which they do IMO), but I don't think they need to be the lowest price ticket. WDW is positioned as the highest quality experience. Trust me, WDW is keeping very close tabs on it's market position. If they felt they needed to reduce ticket prices or apply additional discounting, they would.

More things to do? Yes, they should continue to expand WDW. This Thanksgiving we'll only be doing 2 parks. One will certainly be EPCOT, so we can try Mission:Space. So, expansion continues, but it's a very expensive and slow process.

 

[RoutemanDan]

Thanks for the report Werner! We just purchased the 5 day Universal ticket and plan on only doing that and PI on our next trip.We switched from a BWV studio to a 1 bedroom at OKW to be closer to DTD and quicker access to offsite.

 

[Granny]

Werner..thanks for the provocative thread. And thanks to everyone who is responding not with a sense of entitlement, but just taking the prudent business approach!

We always hit Sea World and Busch Gardens on each trip...they are first class parks and great family entertainment. And we have done Discovery Cove with the dolphins as well....wow! That's an incredible experience and a first class day.

I think Disney figures that the best way to capture us on-site is by offering the discount on the LOS passes. That way, you almost have to go into the parks to make it pay off. But poll after poll on this site indicate that people get the AP's.

Disney is pretty business savvy....believe it when it is said that if they really thought that a discount on passes would be offset by increased spending in the parks...and not just increased spending, but increased spending at a point where the additional profit on that spending superceded the discount....well, we all know that they would offer that up.

 

[DeeP]

The resorts are great and there's a lot of other stuff to do in Orlando, but it's the entire WDW experience that sets DVC apart from other timeshares. If we ever lost interest in WDW, me and my $$$ are out'a there!

Me too, I can get a non DVC timeshare in Orlando for a lot cheaper, with more time and lower dues. If I am paying the preimum price for a DVC timeshare I want WDW to be the main focus of our vacations, if not, it is not worth the money to me. So far we are prefectly content to patronize Disney establishments 95% of our vacation. We do go to the other parks but they are definitely more of a side day trip, they are never the focus of the trip and in all honesty I do not see them ever being the focus of our trips. I like the other parks, my kids love the rides at Universal etc but on a whole of places that I would want to spend days of my vacation at, no. Universal, etc though very nice are just not like Disney quality, service and the whole experience of staying on WDW property, but hey that is just us, that's why they make vanilla and chocolate!
I also think you certainly can not omit trips to PI, DTD, or the water parks as counting as non Disney park days. They are also Disney establishments that are getting your money!

Also, I don't think there's any problem taking day trips out-side of WDW to see/do other theme parks. WDW does not want to be all things to all people. The other parks helps draw national/international vacationers. From that draw, WDW benefits the most. They should price they media to be competative (which they do IMO), but I don't think they need to be the lowest price ticket. WDW is positioned as the highest quality experience. Trust me, WDW is keeping very close tabs on it's market position. If they felt they needed to reduce ticket prices or apply additional discounting, they would.

This is also very true. I take quite a few business seminar/conferences in Orlando area and one of the big sponsors is Universal. I have talked to the event mgr from Universal and he states that WDW and Universal have a very good working relationship. They both benefit from as many people as they can draw to this area and they know it and encourage it. For goodness sake they provide transportation to other parks right from their front desks!
Disney is also smart enough to know that though there may be a very small % of people that stay on property, DVC or not, that do not go to their parks in any way shape or form or patronize their establishments in any way (and let's be honest that is a very, very small %!!!); there are millions every year that flock to their parks and do the whole ball of wax!
I also would like to see a DVC discount on tickets, who doesn't like to save money! But for the amount of days usuage I get from an AP per year (45-60 days) I can't complain and it is well worth my money. Could I do even better with an AP for Universal? Sort of, but I would not want to spend the amount of days at Universal per year that I spend at WDW and I don't think the two APs are a fair comparison because a WDW AP gives you so much more than a Universal AP. To me, WDW gives me much more for my money and since my timeshare is right there, why in the world would I want to spend the majority of my time away from there???
But that is just me.

 

[RobDoc]

Statistically, Disney, on average, knows how long we spend at WDW each year, how many stay in our rooms and villas, how many days we spend in Disney Theme Parks, water parks and other WDW venues and how much we spend per day.

While they probably don't track individual spending/admission habits, they have a very clear idea of what we collectively do while at WDW.

As long as those numbers remain within their expectations and comfort level, we are not likely to see any change in the discounts offered to try to get us behave differently.

While there are some (possibly many) who are spending less time in Disney venues (and are spending more time and money offsite), until those numbers show up as a statstical change we won't likely see any increased incentives.

Personally, I also get about 50 days of Disney admission from an AP, which makes the value of the renewal discount a no-brainer. Discounts on accommodations have no appeal for me as a DVC member and the other AP "incentives" are usually duplicated with DVC membership. The admission savings alone is enough incentive for me. When we have guests with us, the UPH with 10% discount usually provides the best savings for their needs. Sure, other discounted options would be appreciated, but I've yet to see the compelling business reason for such a decision. A few anecdotal posts on this board don't serve to change the statistics already known by Disney.

As for visiting USF/IOA/Sea World/Busch Gardens/etc., they are certainly nice options and each has it's own following. Some find the "value" of those parks versus the admission cost to be more favorable than the "value" versus cost for Disney venues to determine how/where they will spend their vacation dollars. I understand completely. In my case, the "value" of the Disney venues far overshadows the other options and I'll continue to enjoy purchasing AP's and staying onsite using DVC accommodations.

DVC has allowed me to have, IMO, superior onsite accommodations at a reasonable value. The fact that I also enjoy the Disney Theme Parks more than the other local options is just icing on the cake.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by DeeP

But for the amount of days usuage I get from an AP per year (45-60 days) I can't complain and it is well worth my money.

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
Personally, I also get about 50 days of Disney admission from an AP, which makes the value of the renewal discount a no-brainer.

Wow! That's amazing! Yes, under those circumstances, Annual Passes provide great value and are clearly the best option.

I probably spend an average of 5 days per year at major WDW theme parks. I imagine that's a more typical number for DVC members than DeeP's 45-60 days or WebmasterDoc's 50 days.

So, for my family, annual passes don't work out. And the Ultimate Park Hopper plan costs too much per day. So, since the end of 1999, we've primarily used various types of Park Hoppers, where we have to "burn" a day (4 admissions for our family of 4) if we want to go to a WDW theme park. So it doesn't make sense to go to Epcot just for dinner or to go to a WDW theme park on a day when we're also planning something else, such as a water park.

If we were offered an advantageous DVC 7-consecutive day Park Hopper (similar to the consecutive day passes at Universal Florida), we should change our park visit patterns. In the end, we would probably spend more for admission media, spend more time at WDW theme parks, and spend more money at Disney restaurants. Disney would win. And we would win.

No single plan will be the best for everybody. Annual passes work well for very frequent guests. Ultimate Park Hoppers work well for guests who visit infrequently, but who want to cram as much "Disney" into every day as possible.

DVC members who visit for about a week or so every year are a special market segment — and I think there are many of us who fall in that category. After we've been members for a few years, many of us need some encouragement to make the theme parks a part of our plans every day.

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by Werner Weiss
Wow! That's amazing! Yes, under those circumstances, Annual Passes provide great value and are clearly the best option.

I probably spend an average of 5 days per year at major WDW theme parks. I imagine that's a more typical number for DVC members than DeeP's 45-60 days or WebmasterDoc's 50 days.

So, for my family, annual passes don't work out. And the Ultimate Park Hopper plan costs too much per day.

Werner .............you beat me to saying the exact same thing concerning a DVC member going to WDW for 45-60 days to going 10-14 days per year. I don't think most DVC'ers go to the parks 45-60 days a year..........but I am sure we would like to.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by Werner Weiss

DVC members who visit for about a week or so every year are a special market segment and I think there are many of us who fall in that category. After we've been members for a few years, many of us need some encouragement to make the theme parks a part of our plans every day.

I agree that many fall into that category, but I don't agree with the "special market section" concept- as there are many non-DVC guests that also visit for 7 days each year.

Based on their statistics, Disney anticipates a certain number of park admission days for each stay. I don't know the stats, but imagine it's around 3 days out of 7 for onsite guests. As long as those staying at DVC resorts equal or exceed that as an average, we're not viewed as a "special market segment". I realize that my utilization (and that of anyone with an AP) is likely to skew that statistic from those that stay 9 days and have 0 visits, but that's why they keep the statistics and don't just base incentives on a few isolated reports.

I agree, that if your stays are 7 nights or less per year- AP's don't make economical sense. If you are spending 10-14 days in parks, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't purchase an AP- there is no more economical admission- even without a discount. If you spend 5 days in WDW parks and another 4 (or more days) in other non-Disney attractions, then you are making a decision based on your own determination of cost/value for the chosen entertainment. In my case, that decision has always come out with Disney as the best value for my dollar.

I also admit, that with our AP's, there are many days when we ONLY enter a park to enjoy a meal and sometimes don't enter any attraction, but I would still rather have the freedom to enter a Disney park whenever the mood strikes. If I were in a position where I visited Disney Theme Parks 5 days per year and then paid to visit Sea World, USF/IOA for several other days, the total admission costs would not exceed the cost of an AP by much, if at all. I'd still rather have the option of the Disney parks, but that is a personal choice.

If you enjoy the non-Disney venues, they do have some great admission plans.

Enjoy!

 

[rbuzzotta]

We just spent 17 days at OKW and only went to the park 3 times!! The reason being was that my oldest DD had a friend with her and they only stayed with us for 8 of the days before they left to go home to cheerleading camp.

WE enjoyed not going to the parks and hanging at the pool and doing off-site things........something we will do more and more of.....

 

[DeeP]

From what I can gather there are many DVC owners that go to WDW at least 2x a year and many who go even more than that. If you are going to be at WDW more than 8 days (and with 2+ trips per year the odds of it being greater than 8 days is pretty good), once you get past the 8 day mark any other pass including hoppers are really costing you more money. I am always surprised at the DVC owners who do NOT have APs, to me they are a no brainer. The cost difference is really not that much greater than a hopper and then paying for seperate admissions to Universal, etc.
We also many times just go to a park for dinner, or lunch or to see the nighttime shows or the afternoon parade and do nothing else in that park for the rest of the day. That is the beauty of an AP. I go to WDW on an average about every 3-4 months and my trips are always at least 10 days to a max of 16 days (these totals include business & pleasure trips spent staying at a WDW resort) and I go to a park or PI/DTD everyday that I am anywhere in the vicinity of WDW--to be honest I don't think I could be there and NOT go to something Disney!. Even when I am in Orlando for business and staying at a WDW resort, I still go to a park at night after returning from my seminar sometimes just to grab a bite to eat, or grab some pastries for the next day's breakfast and then return to my room to work. To me the ability to enjoy the parks this way is part of the whole Disney emmersion experience and an AP is definitely the most cost effective option for my use.
When my kids were young we used to get PAPs but now we only go to a water park about once every 4+ trips so now we get APs and I also get an AP for PI and it fits my vacation wants to a tee and I do get a lot of mileage from both APs.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by DeeP
If you are going to be at WDW more than 8 days (and with 2+ trips per year the odds of it being greater than 8 days is pretty good), once you get past the 8 day mark any other pass including hoppers are really costing you more money.

I'm not sure how the advantage belongs to annual passes as soon as you're at more than 8 days.

Based on adult (older than 9) prices, an Annual Pass (AP) is $392.99 and a Premium AP is $520.79. But a 7-day Park Hopper Plus, providing 7 non-expiring theme park admssions and 4 non-expiring water park (or PI) admissions has an advance purchase price of just $308.00.

Again, I agree that an annual pass is a good value for very frequent guests. And I agree that it would be a great option to be able be able to drop into a park for just a couple of hours. But if someone uses an AP for only 9 admissions, that's still a lot of money, especially if one is just dropping in for a couple of hours.

 

[DeeP]

Originally posted by Werner Weiss
I'm not sure how the advantage belongs to annual passes as soon as you're at more than 8 days.

Based on adult (older than 9) prices, an Annual Pass (AP) is $392.99 and a Premium AP is $520.79. But a 7-day Park Hopper Plus, providing 7 non-expiring theme park admssions and 4 non-expiring water park (or PI) admissions has an advance purchase price of just $308.00.

Again, I agree that an annual pass is a good value for very frequent guests. And I agree that it would be a great option to be able be able to drop into a park for just a couple of hours. But if someone uses an AP for only 9 admissions, that's still a lot of money, especially if one is just dropping in for a couple of hours.

I have often thought the determining number should be more around 10 days myself, but for some reason 8 days is what is posted on sites (like Deb Willis) that have the breakdowns of pass and cost value.
But even if you go with 10 or more days, it seems a lot of DVC owners spend more than 10 days total per yr at WDW.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by Werner Weiss
I'm not sure how the advantage belongs to annual passes as soon as you're at more than 8 days.

Based on adult (older than 9) prices, an Annual Pass (AP) is $392.99 and a Premium AP is $520.79. But a 7-day Park Hopper Plus, providing 7 non-expiring theme park admssions and 4 non-expiring water park (or PI) admissions has an advance purchase price of just $308.00.

The renewal AP rate is $350. When you compute the average daily cost for a the 7 day Hopper Plus- it is $47 (yes, it does include the plus features). The AP renewal come out to $43.70 per day for 8 days (no plus features) and the new AP rate is $49+ per day ( for the first year). I think when these figures were computed several years ago, the 8 day figure was better than a Hopper even for the new AP, but that is no longer the case (you now have to wait until day 9 to come out ahead). The PAP has always taken longer to break even compared with the Hopper pass.

The plus features do offer extra value, but don't provide an 8th day's admission to any Theme Park.

Even the UPH comes out to only $42+ for 8 days with the DVC discount and is a bargain for those who won't return within 12 months (where an AP would be better). The UPH also includes admission to all Water Parks, PI and DQ for those days.

If you intend to go into parks only a few days each trip, then the hopper is still the better deal as the passes don't expire. The UPH is good only for that trip, but does provide carefree admission during that time.

What works best will all depend on your personal park habits. Just do the math and count the days.

Enjoy!

 

[RJake1]

Why use DVC points to stay on-site if you're going to spend your time off-site? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Not to be critical but I think one of the big advantages of DVC is close proximity to the WDW parks. Its expensive to stay on-site (points or $$$) so I'd be inclined to take full advantage of on-site advantages.

 

[childsplay]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
What works best will all depend on your personal park habits.

I agree.

For us, with three little kids, we go to the parks twice on a 6 or 7 day trip...they just can't handle much more than that. The rest of the time is spent at SAB, checking out the Boardwalk, taking boats to Downtown Disney, riding the monorail, going to Blizzard Beach.......you get the idea

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

The problem is as stated earlier in this thread that many DVCers only go to the parks for a couple of hours at a time.

Computing which ticket media gives you the most for your money depends on whether you stay for the whole day or not, and other factors like what season you're traveling in and how crowded the parks are. To say that an AP is a better because you can just come and go, doesn't mean that you actually spent more hours in the parks than if you used hoppers, and stayed the whole day. We got 25 days off our last AP, but some days we only were in the park for 2 hrs.

Park hoppers are great if you are the dawn till dusk commando type of vacationer, and APs are great if you are spending more than 10 days/year, but I think DVCers should have a special ticket media that allows us to pay by the hour for park access.

In other words, you enter the park the regular way, but you exit the parks through a special DVC turnstyle that clocks you out. That way, DVCers only pay for the "park time" used. It would allow more frequent but shorter visits to the parks and give DVCers the option of dining w/o wasting a Hopper day. This pass wouldn't have to be discounted per se. If you paid $4-5/hour to visit the parks, you'ld approximately be paying the going rate for park access.

A DVC resort with its theming, accomodations and ammenities can certainly be a vacation destination without the parks. I'm sure most WDW DVCers do want to visit the parks while in Orlando, but as ownership lengthens I know I'll be less inclined to continuously pay the huge cost of Disney ticket media for all our WDW trips. This is also a big reason we purchased part of our points at HH...excellent resort...no passes needed.

 

[DaveH]

I would suggest the experiences and wants posted here so well should be sent to Disney direct. I love WDW and that is why we bought DVC. We have only 150 points. We go off season because we love going the week after Thanksgiving. If we stay a full 7 days or more we would probally take a day trip or 2. As for AP's compared to Park Hoppers. I can get Paark Hopper at AAA with a nice discount. For an AP to make sense for me is I will need to be in the parks between 10 and 11 days in a year. I usually don't go to PI or the water parks. If I want to go to either it makes more sense for me to get the DVC discount and go. So when it comes time to buy a admission ticket of any kind I look at what we are planning for the next year. I think with folks like us a discouunt on AP's might have us buy AP's more often then Park Hopers.

 

[rpink58]

I have been a DVC member long enough , that I do not have to visit the parks to enjoy our vacation. That being said I , like Doc and Deep go quite often even if it is just to go on Splash Mountain or just to ride TOT. When I do purchase a AP I try to go back within the year that way I get atleast two visits with that one AP.