75 employees laid off at Pixar, including the director of Lightyear

[BrianL]

I do fear that Disney's agenda is getting in the way of their good storytelling. I have been very clear about this, it is a big concern of mine because I don't think that is what the buying public wants. They want good stories first and foremost. If you happen to tell a great story with diverse and female centric stories......I think that is fine. However, when you focus on agenda first, people recoil from that mess.

You know, I actually DO agree with you on that. If you put the agenda frst before story, then thequality usually suffers. I just don't actually see that happening in practice in the movies and shows produced by Disney. I've mostly only seen that happen in comic books, and they've done that for a long time. Often the "agenda" isn't about any social issues so people don't get all worked up about it. My issue is that all of these "anti-agenda" folks are jumping at shadows. "Oh, there's a woman in an Indy movie who is NOT a damsel? STOP PUSHING YOUR AGENDA ON ME!" It's such a weird pearl-clutching thing.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Your exact words were:

Neitehr Helena Shaw nor Bo Katan were in lead roles. They are supporting roles, or maybe considered "supporting leads." But, you know, don't let me convince you that that big, bag feminist bogey-woman isn't out to take all the roles.

Don't worry though, they ahve several man-friendly movies on the way, like The Creator, A Huanting in Venice, Elio, Captain America: Brave New World, Deadpool 3, Blade, and Planet of the Apes. I know I'll rest easy knowing that males will continue to be represented in film, because I was worried there for a second!



This was in response to my response to someone else saying white females were underrepresented in Disney /Pixar. Who picked this fight again?

 

[Smugpugmug]

If any of you want to watch a great movie with diverse characters, I recommend watching Nimona. Disney cancelled the movie when they bought Blue Sky but another studio took over the project and finished it. I watched it the other day and it was a lot of fun! It also does LGBT rep way better than any pathetic attempt Disney has made in their films.

 

[BrianL]

Your exact words were:

Neitehr Helena Shaw nor Bo Katan were in lead roles. They are supporting roles, or maybe considered "supporting leads." But, you know, don't let me convince you that that big, bag feminist bogey-woman isn't out to take all the roles.

Don't worry though, they ahve several man-friendly movies on the way, like The Creator, A Huanting in Venice, Elio, Captain America: Brave New World, Deadpool 3, Blade, and Planet of the Apes. I know I'll rest easy knowing that males will continue to be represented in film, because I was worried there for a second!



This was in response to my response to someone else saying white females were underrepresented in Disney /Pixar. Who picked this fight again?

Yup, that's what I said. I stand by my assessment. I have given reasons why. If you think I "picked a fight" then I can live with that too.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Here is where you struggle with me though, you don't know what to do when I love something like Ghostbuster Afterlife. Great story, well told, perfect respect of legacy characters (maybe too much), female lead, diverse cast. Literally checked every possible DEI box it needed to check into today's Hollywood.

Made money in the box office, the fans adored it. Revived a dying franchise, and now they have a sequel coming set back in NY City!

 

[Disneychick13]

I think, in bringing it back to the original topic of this thread, that most of the movies they have come out with in the past 3 years just aren’t memorable to a lot of the population. You can do niche films but also supplement with more crowd pleasers. The only movie in the past 3 years that really fits that bill is Encanto (which I have watched and will watch again and again). It’s a combination of a strong theme, great characters, and big musical numbers. They just keep missing the mark. And I don’t know why that is. Maybe “Wish” will hit it. We will see.

 

[starlite_]

"picked a fight" aka disagreed with a nasty take.

 

[BrianL]

I think, in bringing it back to the original topic of this thread, that most of the movies they have come out with in the past 3 years just aren’t memorable to a lot of the population. You can do niche films but also supplement with more crowd pleasers. The only movie in the past 3 years that really fits that bill is Encanto (which I have watched and will watch again and again). It’s a combination of a strong theme, great characters, and big musical numbers. They just keep missing the mark. And I don’t know why that is. Maybe “Wish” will hit it. We will see.

I mean, to be fair, they've only released three animated films since Encanto. Two had a pretty rough go at the theaters and is at least doing okay - maybe not "profitable" but generally well received. Sci-Fi is always a bit niche, so they shouldn't have released Lightyear and Strange World in the same year for sure.

 

[leiaorgana]

In the recent Gallery: Mando season 3 D+ episode Rick Famuyiwa (one of the directors) mentioned that the 'Mandalorian' show title for season three has shifted to mean there were 2 main protagonists ... both Din Djarin and Bo Katan

I remember it was rumoured (on a Reddit I trust because they’ve had a lot of inside info there but still take it with a pinch of salt) well before S3 even came out that they were actually considering changing the name of the show to “The Mandalorians” for either S3 or S4 going forward and shifting away from just Din and focusing on Mandalore/Mandalorians as a whole. S3 didn’t really surprise me with the slight shift in focus at times because I know it’s mainly just a voice role for him these days but Pedro’s booked and busy elsewhere and he’s only going to get busier with all of the other films that he’s been announced for recently.

 

[BrianL]

Here is where you struggle with me though, you don't know what to do when I love something like Ghostbuster Afterlife. Great story, well told, perfect respect of legacy characters (maybe too much), female lead, diverse cast. Literally checked every possible DEI box it needed to check into today's Hollywood.

Made money in the box office, the fans adored it. Revived a dying franchise, and now they have a sequel coming set back in NY City!

Afterlife wasn't some HUGE hit though. It only made about $204M. Sure, that's okay compared to it's lower budget, but just barely. Fans liked it though, which is good.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

"picked a fight" aka disagreed with a nasty take.

Why is mine the "nasty" take? Seems like his response was significantly more aggressive than mine. Is it "nasty" that because you didn't like my pointing out all of the female leads in current / upcoming Disney projects as a respectful rebuttal to someone saying white females were under-represented?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I remember it was rumoured (on a Reddit I trust because they’ve had a lot of inside info there but still take it with a pinch of salt) well before S3 even came out that they were actually considering changing the name of the show to “The Mandalorians” for either S3 or S4 going forward and shifting away from just Din and focusing on Mandalore/Mandalorians as a whole. S3 didn’t really surprise me with the slight shift in focus at times because I know it’s mainly just a voice role for him these days but Pedro’s booked and busy elsewhere and he’s only going to get busier with all of the other films that he’s been announced for recently.

Yep, I read the same Reddit thread it seems, I was not shocked by it very much. Pedro is indeed a busy dude.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Afterlife wasn't some HUGE hit though. It only made about $204M. Sure, that's okay compared to it's lower budget, but just barely. Fans liked it though, which is good.

Never said it was a huge hit, I said I liked it a lot, the fans liked it a lot, and it revived a damaged brand.

You want to paint me as a male chauvinist pig, but just pointing out a very diverse and female led film that seems to fly in the face of your narrative about me.

 

[BrianL]

Why is mine the "nasty" take? Seems like his response was significantly more aggressive than mine. Is it "nasty" that because you didn't like my pointing out all of the female leads in current / upcoming Disney projects as a respectful rebuttal to someone saying white females were under-represented?

Granted, I was a bit aggressive, but it's just that you constantly spout the usual talking-points about agendas and whatever, so I find that sarcasm is the best rebuttal. Maybe it isn't. All this diversity seems to worry you so. Honestly, I don't even care about it. Do it. Don't do it. I don't make my decisions about what movies to see based on it. It certianly doesn't bother me though as a straight white male - I can handle it.

 

[BrianL]

Never said it was a huge hit, I said I liked it a lot, the fans liked it a lot, and it revived a damaged brand.

You want to paint me as a male chauvinist pig, but just pointing out a very diverse and female led film that seems to fly in the face of your narrative about me.

Look, man, I don't want to paint you as a male chauvinist pig, but you do that yourself with so many things that you post on here. You are so concerned about a female character doing a couple of cool things in a movie and you see it as at the expense of another male character. If you didn't push that kind of viewpoint, we wouldn't think that it is your position.

 

[Brocktoon]

If any of you want to watch a great movie with diverse characters, I recommend watching Nimona. Disney cancelled the movie when they bought Blue Sky but another studio took over the project and finished it. I watched it the other day and it was a lot of fun! It also does LGBT rep way better than any pathetic attempt Disney has made in their films.

I think a large problem with Disney's IPs (and the other large studios) becomes the 'rule by committee' mentality. If a studio is investing a ton of cash, everyone wants the final say on the product, typically resulting in a middle of the road film no one cares about. Quantumania and Lightyear are great examples of this, where the films were OK, but in the end was there any point?

Nimona is an excellent example of where it was probably great to get out from under Disney and just tell a well written story with good character portrayal as an indie-style production.

You still have the few John Wicks (4 was amazing!) of the world where you don't need story or character ... but even there it seems obvious the creators were allowed to do what they want.

 

[BrianL]

I think a large problem with Disney's IPs (and the other large studios) becomes the 'rule by committee' mentality. If a studio is investing a ton of cash, everyone wants the final say on the product, typically resulting in a middle of the road film no one cares about. Quantumania and Lightyear are great examples of this, where the films were OK, but in the end was there any point?

Nimona is an excellent example of where it was probably great to get out from under Disney and just tell a well written story with good character portrayal as an indie-style production.

You still have the few John Wicks (4 was amazing!) of the world where you don't need story or character ... but even there it seems obvious the creators were allowed to do what they want.

I think this is where Lasseter was a good lead for Pixar - he didn't take the notes. You have to have a very strong creative voice to do that though, plus a lot of "juice.". It's too bad there aren't more who can get away with it.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Lassiter is a very big loss for Pixar. He got it, and not many people left do imho.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I think a large problem with Disney's IPs (and the other large studios) becomes the 'rule by committee' mentality. If a studio is investing a ton of cash, everyone wants the final say on the product, typically resulting in a middle of the road film no one cares about. Quantumania and Lightyear are great examples of this, where the films were OK, but in the end was there any point?

Nimona is an excellent example of where it was probably great to get out from under Disney and just tell a well written story with good character portrayal as an indie-style production.

You still have the few John Wicks (4 was amazing!) of the world where you don't need story or character ... but even there it seems obvious the creators were allowed to do what they want.

I agree. I feel like with Lightyear, they wanted to make a film that would appeal to everyone but ended up appealing to almost no one. Reminds me a lot of Cars 2 which is still discussed as one of Pixar's worst films.

Though the reasoning as to why Disney canceled Nimona was cowardly, in a way I'm glad that it got to be its own thing. I do believe that if it had been released under Disney, the LGBT relationship would've been toned down or removed. Is it a perfect film? No, but it's a fun adventure with a cool futureistic medieval setting and characters you care about.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Why do things worry me so? Well
Mainly because Disney stock price and theatrical releases suck right now. I want Disney to rein supreme and for my stock holdings to increase in value.

I believe their current agenda driven management of their core businesses is hurting their performance. I believe their agenda first crap is hurting their theatrical release performances as well. I mean they just deconstructed yet another traditional hero in Indy 5, and it’s gonna cost them $300+ million dollars, but maybe I don’t know what I am talking about.