75 employees laid off at Pixar, including the director of Lightyear

[irlandaise]

Ask Brian as my response was to his post:

Brian: But, let me ask you, suppose Phoebe Waller-Bridge was NOT in Indy 5 aqnd there was no Helena Shaw character? Do you think it suddenly changes to be a mega blockbuster? Honestly, most fan reaction seems to think it was a decent movie - maybe not great, but they aren't calling out for "deconstruction" a hero or anythign (which it doesn't do). How do you explane some "agenda-driven" movies doing super well and some that aren't doing poorly? You focus on this one little detail, when it's barely part of the equation

He was rephrasing your use of "agenda." How do you define "agenda" as applied to movies?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I would say agenda driven is when the agenda is more important than the story. I think when you go into a story from the beginning during conception and mandate the percentages of males / females / diversity / and LGTBQ+ from the get go the story will suffer.

On the other hand if you focus on telling a great story first and foremost, I think the audience will not care about who the cast is if it feels organic and not forced.

Tell a great story, it's really that simple to me.

 

[nancipants]

I find that TV shows for kids are doing way more for the diversity front. Steven Universe from CN and Owl House come to mind.

Oh yeah, Disney Junior shows have way better representation all over the place. It's ridiculous how much better Young Jedi Adventures, a show for pre-schoolers, has been than shows for adults when it comes to LGBTQ rep. (Although at least Andor had the guts to show an actual lesbian relationship on screen.)

 

[Smugpugmug]

Oh yeah, Disney Junior shows have way better representation all over the place. It's ridiculous how much better Young Jedi Adventures, a show for pre-schoolers, has been than shows for adults when it comes to LGBTQ rep. (Although at least Andor had the guts to show an actual lesbian relationship on screen.)

I don't have kids so I'm not aware of the Disney Junior stuff but dang they're doing better than Disney feature films? LOL

Also I have no clue if anyone here watches anime but even anime has pretty good rep. I remember being a teenager watching Sailor Moon and being unphased by Neptune and Uranus's relationship.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

But, let me ask you, suppose Phoebe Waller-Bridge was NOT in Indy 5 and there was no Helena Shaw character? Do you think it suddenly changes to be a mega blockbuster? Honestly, most fan reaction seems to think it was a decent movie - maybe not great, but they aren't calling out for "deconstruction" a hero or anythign (which it doesn't do). How do you explane some "agenda-driven" movies doing super well and some that aren't doing poorly? You focus on this one little detail, when it's barely part of the equation.

No of course not. I think the deconstruction of Indy into a sad man with a failed marriage who is not admired any longer was only part of the problem. Biggest single issue is KK's inability to manage a project on an even remotely reasonable budget. Her insistence on spending hundreds of millions more than her competitors leaves no room for error in her movies.

 

[bryaalre]

Disney is in lose lose situation.

They could come out with 10 straight princess finding true love in a prince movies and than come out with a prince finding true love in a prince movie and they would be hit by the right for shoving LGBT down there throats even if there was no agenda.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Well, I don't really believe that they actually are "agenda driven" movies, but you do. The biggest recent example might be "Spider-Verse" which is literally the poster-child for the diversity-first approach. Wakanda Forever? You hate on Captain Marvel, but it made $1.1B.

I said recently, but I would hold off on your praise of Captain Marvel as your shining star of an example. May want to wait and see how The Marvels does first???

Yep, I did hate that movie. I thought is was bad, but that is because I despise Brie Larson. Sorta like you hating Top Gun because you hate Tom. Love Monica Rambo though, so I have high hopes for her character.

 

[nancipants]

Disney is in lose lose situation.

They could come out with 10 straight princess finding true love in a prince movies and than come out with a prince finding true love in a prince movie and they would be hit by the right for shoving LGBT down there throats even if there was no agenda.

Sadly, this is true.

(Although if anyone does want to watch a prince fall in love, Red, White, and Royal Blue (based on the book) is coming to Amazon Prime next month and I cannot WAIT.)

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Oh yeah, Disney Junior shows have way better representation all over the place. It's ridiculous how much better Young Jedi Adventures, a show for pre-schoolers, has been than shows for adults when it comes to LGBTQ rep. (Although at least Andor had the guts to show an actual lesbian relationship on screen.)

So, I wonder why they find it more important to push LGBTQ representation in the kid's shows? Isn't that interesting?

 

[BrianL]

No of course not. I think the deconstruction of Indy into a sad divorced man who is not admired any longer was only part of the problem. Biggest single issue is KK's inability to manage a project on an even remotely reasonable budget. Her insistence on spending hundreds of millions more than her competitors leaves no room for error in her movies.

Why do you think he wasn't "admired?" I think it's clear that he was by many people . He wasn't even divorced, though it was pending. What in Indiana Jones's previous character portrayal makes you think that's some super-unlikely outcome? He's not exactly a paragon of virtue when it comes to relationships. He might even be a little difficult to like. Should he just be perfect all the time? That'd make for a real good movie. I really can't understand why you see all this stuff is some kind of slight against the characters.

 

[fatmanatee]

Give me an example of an agenda driven movie in the last few years that has made a bunch of money to consider please? One isn’t coming to mind.

Avatar.

 

[nancipants]

It's ironic because one of the reasons I wasn't super fond of Ghostbusters: Afterlife is that they actually made Egon out to be a huge jerk. He abandoned his family and became a recluse. But everyone seems to like that movie for... reasons?

 

[mdmost]

Black Panther perfectly portrayed on screen like he was in the comics that I read. Not seeing that one, but do you mean the diverse cast? I pretty much mirrors the comics pretty darn closely.

Avatar 2 is a reach. A huge spectacle, visually stunning, and strong family values are the key to the story. Not sure I can see this one as agenda driven, are you speaking to the humans are trash and destroy things elements. Well we do, have you never seen the pricks in the park throwing trash on the ground?

Black Panther 2 didn't have T'Challa other than discussing his passing. A female Black Panther seems to be something you would define as "agenda driven" along with the younger, genius female character that's taken over the Tony Stark role as Ironheart. It was a predominantly female lead cast and featured a Latino anti-hero/villain that was fundamentally changed from the comic book character.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Dude, you aren't helping yourself here. You either come out looking misogynist or racist. How did you say in your previous comment? Take the L?

And you keep talking about an agenda, do you really need to ask why yours is the nasty take?

No, I objectively want to know how my response which was phrased respectfully was deemed "nasty" by you. However, Brian's which was full of sarcasm and backhanded slaps, was not. I think it is a legitimate question.

I know the answer already though. You disagree with my point of view, so that makes all my statements "nasty" by default. Brian says what you want to hear in your echo chamber on here, so he is by default not "nasty".

You just prove my points over and over, day by day on here.

 

[nancipants]

So, I wonder why they find it more important to push LGBTQ representation in the kid's shows? Isn't that interesting?

I mean, if you think that a character having two moms is "pushing" it, then sure. Personally, I appreciate my child watching diverse entertainment.

 

[mdmost]

It's ironic because one of the reasons I wasn't super fond of Ghostbusters: Afterlife is that they actually made Egon out to be a huge jerk. He abandoned his family and became a recluse. But everyone seems to like that movie for... reasons?

I thought it was a fun movie but it was The Ghostbusters Awakens. It was a carbon copy of the first movie, even with the same villain.

 

[leiaorgana]

It's ironic because one of the reasons I wasn't super fond of Ghostbusters: Afterlife is that they actually made Egon out to be a huge jerk. He abandoned his family and became a recluse. But everyone seems to like that movie for... reasons?

I guess they didn’t think “the deconstruction never want to hear that word again of Egon ruined their childhood”

 

[Smugpugmug]

So, I wonder why they find it more important to push LGBTQ representation in the kid's shows? Isn't that interesting?

The rep that is in these TV shows had to be fought to be put in. It wasn't a willy nilly decision. The creator of Owl House has discussed on her Twitter how Disney fought with her to put in the rep and it was part of the reason why the show was canceled. The creator of Gravity Falls has shown emails from high ups at Disney on his Twitter about being forced to remove LGBT rep from the show.

 

[nancipants]

Black Panther 2 didn't have T'Challa other than discussing his passing. A female Black Panther seems to be something you would define as "agenda driven" along with the younger, genius female character that's taken over the Tony Stark role as Ironheart. It was a predominantly female lead cast and featured a Latino anti-hero/villain that was fundamentally changed from the comic book character.

Not to mention, Black Panther and Wakanda Forever have HUGE anti-colonialist agendas.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

It's ironic because one of the reasons I wasn't super fond of Ghostbusters: Afterlife is that they actually made Egon out to be a huge jerk. He abandoned his family and became a recluse. But everyone seems to like that movie for... reasons?

It's really simple......they respected the past. They didn't find the need to tell you how crappy all the old cast was in order to make the new cast look better. The young girl loved her grandfather's work and had a genuine infatuation with what he did.

They didn't see the need to humiliate those that came before them to prop up the current cast. They all worked hand in hand literally in the end to defeat the foe.

Nearly a perfect film to heal the fanbase after the 2016 debacle.