7 month/11 month rule

[chalee94]

I doubt it will be changed but IF it is, the change would almost certainly be to reduce the home resort window, not increase it. As soon as they don't have a high demand resort to sell and say they do the FW project, this option will be on the table because it would be easier to sell a lower demand resort if they had reduced the home resort priority.

potentially making it easier down the road for caribbean beach DVC owners to get into VGF or BLT? ouch...

 

[KingRichard]

The real problem is Hawaii!

Everyday Disney is selling thousands of points to Hawaii, but where do you think those points are getting used?

I bet most points will get used in Hawaii once every 5 years.

Now we do get to use our points there, but how often would we go?

All those points are going to be used in the world and make it very hard to book for everyone in the 7 month period.

 

[tjkraz]

That is why I stated that it has to benefit Disney. Increasing the points required to THV stays didn't benefit the owners.

So how did that particular change benefit Disney?

That question aside, there was a corresponding reduction in costs of most other villas at SSR. As with any point reallocation, some owners will be harmed by the change and others will be helped.

 

[supersnoop]

The real problem is Hawaii! Everyday Disney is selling thousands of points to Hawaii, but where do you think those points are getting used? I bet most points will get used in Hawaii once every 5 years. Now we do get to use our points there, but how often would we go? All those points are going to be used in the world and make it very hard to book for everyone in the 7 month period.

So, then who is filling up the Hawaiian resort? Those are wdw owners. It should all balance out.

 

[disneynutz]

So how did that particular change benefit Disney?

That question aside, there was a corresponding reduction in costs of most other villas at SSR. As with any point reallocation, some owners will be harmed by the change and others will be helped.

I see your point.

The benefit to Disney is that they marketed THV as a 3 bedroom for the point cost of a 2 bedroom and it increased sales.

Coincidentally, as soon as the THV/SSR points sold out, Disney felt that they needed to increase the points required to stay there. True they lowered the points somewhere else but for those who bought based on the Guides telling buyers that THV's were a great 3 for 2 deal, it isn't right how that were treated.

Bill

 

[Dean]

The only true measure of the value of RCI seems to be the number of DVC owners who use it. I don't have any stats (maybe Dean does), but my sense from anecdotal information from the TUG Sightings board and other boards is that a LOT of people are successfully exchanging INTO DVC. Despite what many think, DVC is really quite "gettable" through RCI. That can't happen unless DVC owners exchange out.

Unfortunately we don't have much data for RCI since the change back. Historically it's been 3-4% of the master contracts. I doubt there's been much of an upswing but as the base grows, so too will the sheer numbers at the same %.

The real problem is Hawaii!

Everyday Disney is selling thousands of points to Hawaii, but where do you think those points are getting used?

I bet most points will get used in Hawaii once every 5 years.

Now we do get to use our points there, but how often would we go?

All those points are going to be used in the world and make it very hard to book for everyone in the 7 month period.

Since DVC doesn't release occupancy numbers, it's hard to say. It's a little easier at WDW because of the sheer volume and number of people looking and reporting. I suspect HI does have more availability than points usage compared to the higher demand WDW resorts. Ignoring HI, the lowest demand over the year are HH, VB, SSR & AKV in that order. While some would like to think this is largely size related, the truth is that the majority of this issue is simply demand and for the larger resorts, only a smaller portion size itself. My guess for HI is that the demand is above all I listed but lower than most of the other WDW resorts. Personally more options are good but then I'm doing most of my stays on RCI exchanges.

So how did that particular change benefit Disney?

That question aside, there was a corresponding reduction in costs of most other villas at SSR. As with any point reallocation, some owners will be harmed by the change and others will be helped.

I guess it depends on where one is standing. The reality is they underpriced the THV up front. It's possible they did so specifically planning to raise them later after the points were sold. Regardless the other SSR members and those targeting THV are the losers. The other SSR owners will be supplementing the upkeep for the THV even at the higher points costs and those that bought for the THV didn't get what they thought they are buying. As I've said before, I believe the THV should have been a separate resort. That would have forced Disney to price them more appropriately if applicable, locked in a more reasonable points price for those buying there and forced those who bought for the THV to pay the actual upkeep which is certain to be more and even more than the dues associate with the higher points long term.

 

[Tracy2014]

The real problem is Hawaii! Everyday Disney is selling thousands of points to Hawaii, but where do you think those points are getting used? I bet most points will get used in Hawaii once every 5 years. Now we do get to use our points there, but how often would we go? All those points are going to be used in the world and make it very hard to book for everyone in the 7 month period.

Brilliant point. I had an "insider" mention the same thing to me. That is, due to Aluani, home resort will actually become much more important because they are selling Aluani hard and to the "wrong" people. People that will usually book at WDW. So - as you stated, 7 month may become harder and harder to book. Time will tell.

 

[KingRichard]

So, then who is filling up the Hawaiian resort? Those are wdw owners. It should all balance out.

Cash reservations.

I have gotten a few emails, pay cash for 3 nights get one free.

 

[supersnoop]

Cash reservations. I have gotten a few emails, pay cash for 3 nights get one free.

But cash reservations can't come out of DVC inventory unless someone trades out. So, more cash inventory means less pressure on wdw resorts.

 

[disneynutz]

But cash reservations can't come out of DVC inventory unless someone trades out. So, more cash inventory means less pressure on wdw resorts.

I believe that DVC revenue accounting can turn DVC inventory over to DRC(?) 60 days prior to check in without any trades being involved.

Bill

 

[chalee94]

I believe that DVC revenue accounting can turn DVC inventory over to DRC(?) 60 days prior to check in without any trades being involved.

Bill

yes, it's called "breakage."

i'd figure DVC can also rent aulani for cash based on the number of pts they've declared into inventory but not sold to others (i.e. what they still own).

but if the breakage inventory is significant, that would have more to do with aulani owners trading for wdw resorts inside 7 months without having reciprocal trades back to aulani...

 

[Dean]

But cash reservations can't come out of DVC inventory unless someone trades out. So, more cash inventory means less pressure on wdw resorts.

I don't believe it makes any difference one way or another as to the ease of getting a reservation on points assuming DVD is reasonable about the reservations they take for rental. In large part it depends on what they take though. If they favor difficult to get reservations that can be rented for higher amounts, it helps those who trade out and hurts those trying to reserve because by definition it'd be taking high demand/high cost inventory out of circulation. Historically DVC has been neutral to benevolent in this regard but that's not to say they'll remain that way. Cash inventory can also come out of breakage and out of points owned by DVD as well.

I believe that DVC revenue accounting can turn DVC inventory over to DRC(?) 60 days prior to check in without any trades being involved.

Bill

Technically they can also anticipate breakage and take it at the 11 month window as well.

 

[Tracy2014]

So, then who is filling up the Hawaiian resort? Those are wdw owners. It should all balance out.

And do you know that it is filling up?

 

[Minniesgal]

And do you know that it is filling up?

Well it is extremely difficult to book

 

[MountainMouse]

Can anyone shed any light on the rules Disney has for cash rentals at DVC properties? I was researching cost/availability at Bay Lake tower and found availability for July 2015. This surprised me because it would have been more than 7 months out. Are cash rentals available at more than 11 months? (I couldn't find any) Do owners have any reservation advantage over cash renters?

 

[chalee94]

Can anyone shed any light on the rules Disney has for cash rentals at DVC properties? I was researching cost/availability at Bay Lake tower and found availability for July 2015. This surprised me because it would have been more than 7 months out. Are cash rentals available at more than 11 months? (I couldn't find any) Do owners have any reservation advantage over cash renters?

it's already come up in this thread:

i'd figure DVC can also rent aulani for cash based on the number of pts they've declared into inventory but not sold to others (i.e. what they still own).

Technically they can also anticipate breakage and take it at the 11 month window as well.

Do owners have any reservation advantage over cash renters?

price is the real advantage. and DVC owners have access to a larger pool of inventory. but cash renters will always have more flexibility.

 

[Dean]

Can anyone shed any light on the rules Disney has for cash rentals at DVC properties? I was researching cost/availability at Bay Lake tower and found availability for July 2015. This surprised me because it would have been more than 7 months out. Are cash rentals available at more than 11 months? (I couldn't find any) Do owners have any reservation advantage over cash renters?

You have to understand how the system works and the various different buckets of rooms/points. You can divide the rooms/points up into several groups and other than breakage, you really won't see any cross over between the groups. The first division is between declared and undeclared inventory. Anything undeclared is not available to members on points, period. After that it all flows from points in the following groups as it pertains to securing rooms that are not available to DVC members using points.

• Unsold points
• Sold points that revert back to DVD including ROFR, foreclosures, & deed backs.
• Breakage inventory.
• Points traded for cash type exchanges like DCL,DC, CC and ABD.
• Points traded for RCI or BVTC exchanges.

ALL of these can end up as rentals but only the first 4 through CRO with breakage and cash exchanges being obligated to rentals.

 

[MountainMouse]

You have to understand how the system works and the various different buckets of rooms/points. You can divide the rooms/points up into several groups and other than breakage, you really won't see any cross over between the groups. The first division is between declared and undeclared inventory. Anything undeclared is not available to members on points, period. After that it all flows from points in the following groups as it pertains to securing rooms that are not available to DVC members using points. [*]Unsold points [*]Sold points that revert back to DVD including ROFR, foreclosures, & deed backs. [*]Breakage inventory. [*]Points traded for cash type exchanges like DCL,DC, CC and ABD. [*]Points traded for RCI or BVTC exchanges. ALL of these can end up as rentals but only the first 4 through CRO with breakage and cash exchanges being obligated to rentals.

So owners have a number of points and Disney has a number of points. Disney can use their points to block off rooms for cash reservations. Do I have this gist of it? Does Disney just have floating reservations. In other words, they don't have to declare that they are taking rooms giving some flexibility. This also leads me to think about the annual dues. Does Disney pay their share for the rooms they rent in cash?

 

[JimMIA]

• Points traded for RCI or BVTC exchanges.

I thought points used for RCI exchanges went to RCI. Or more precisely, the corresponding availability goes to RCI -- a specific resort and villa size for seven specific nights. If I'm correct that availability would no longer be available at all -- either for DVC points or for CRO.

If not, what currency is used to pay for the member's RCI exchange?

 

[Dean]

So owners have a number of points and Disney has a number of points. Disney can use their points to block off rooms for cash reservations. Do I have this gist of it? Does Disney just have floating reservations. In other words, they don't have to declare that they are taking rooms giving some flexibility. This also leads me to think about the annual dues. Does Disney pay their share for the rooms they rent in cash?

Undeclared inventory is theirs to do with what they want in any way they want. For all else they are limited to using points to secure reservations like any other member. The info I've had in the past suggested they were fairly benevolent in the reservation they took out of the system. Remember points can be used as far as 11 months out for home resort only.

I thought points used for RCI exchanges went to RCI. Or more precisely, the corresponding availability goes to RCI -- a specific resort and villa size for seven specific nights. If I'm correct that availability would no longer be available at all -- either for DVC points or for CRO.

If not, what currency is used to pay for the member's RCI exchange?

It does but RCI has an active rental program as well. If you'll reread my post you'll see I stated only the first 4 on the list went to CRO.